Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sabelkatten Mar 09, 2010 6:33:44	An idea for a bluff/disguise based character. The idea being that if the enemy doesn't know who you are, they won't pay much attention to you until you do something noticeable: ________________________ "Just a nobody" Encounter Utility Free action Until you end your turn threatening an enemy, the enemy may not take any offensive actions against you. They may, however, include you in area-effect attacks that target known enemies. If you attack an enemy before this effect ends you gain combat advantage. To activate this power make a Bluff check against the highest passive Insight value on the enemy side, add 10 to your roll if they expect to see you (f.ex. a human on the streets of a human city). The power won't let you slip by guards if they have orders not to let anyone pass, nor will it help against people who know you on sight. _________________________ Essentially the power gives you an extra chance to avoid discovery when sneaking around (if you fail a stealth check you can make a bluff check to make them think there's nothing wrong with you being where you are) and it lets you always get combat advantage at the start of a fight (if you make the bluff check). How balanced is this?
#2 shierarustleaf Mar 09, 2010 7:41:58	What level utility are we talking about here? Also, as long as you have a high enough initiative, you should already have combat advantage against targets who haven't gone yet.
#3 kurigo Mar 09, 2010 10:38:53	What the power seems to do, is simply give you a big disguise bonus (a bluff check in 4th) if you are in an area where your race is common. I'd be hesitant (at heroic tier) to forbid the enemy from attacking you directly. Since the diguise doesn'e end unless you provoke the enemy, you could use that utility, say in a 5ft wide corridor, and prevent the enemy from ever getting past you since they can't enter your square. You'd be an invulnerable roadblock to melee foes in a narrow hallway. You just shift once every turn to make sure your turn doesn't end adjacent to the foes, thus maintaining the disguise. If you just want a disguise bonus, make it a level 2 utility with a +5 bonus to your next bluff to diguise, or if you are adjecent to 2 or more creatures who are of the same race, +10 bonus. That way it's not overpowered, but still is a huge disguise bonus in a crowded bazaar or street. If you want to make yourself untargetable for "until the end of your next turn," then make it a higher level utility. That or make it so a foe gets to roll perception as a free action if it enters a square with a burst 2 of you, to unveil you. And even then, I'd make it a daily utility. Makeing yourself untargetable is godly. As your utility stands, Its far, far too powerful, imo, even at epic tiers, just because foes in a 5 ft corridor can't ever get past you so long as you shift 1 away on your turn. But as is with all homebrews, its totally up to you and your DM. I'd make you promise not to abuse it, and I'd probably let it fly. I try to encourage players to use their skills as creatively as they can, and your utiltiy does that. Perhaps you can only use that utiltiy out of combat, then I'd say its perfect. It'd make you a great emmisary to the hostile bandit captain, who would normally attack on sight. But You make yourself appear to be an thief of finess and reputability, so he, out of professional courtesy, he give you an adience without fear of being attacked. As a DM, I would Totally allow that to happen. Its a great roleplaying opportunity, and your utility makes an normally non-negotiable encouter to be reasoned with. I love it.
#4 Sabelkatten Mar 10, 2010 5:42:37	D'Oh! I forgot to write that the power has to be activated at the START of an encounter! Doesn't matter for noncombat encounters, but very important for combat encounters! I hadn't thought about the blocking aspect. Thanks for pointing that out! How about if I do this? 1) The +10 Bluff bonus only applies in combat encounters (if you try to use it after a failed stealth check you're automatically assumed to be "somewhere you shouldn't be"). 2) If an enemy wants to move through your square you can chose to  -Shift one square to get out of the way.  -Drop prone to let him pass.  -Make an opportunity attack with combat advantage. In this case you're immediately revealed and the enemy may attack you if he has any actions left. 3) Instead of just being revealed upon ending a move where you threaten an enemy you are also revealed after moving out of an enemy-threatened square (i.e. if you would have triggered an opportunity attack you're instead revealed. So you can effectively trade your first-attack combat advantage to avoid one opportunity attack). I don't see how making yourself immune to enemy attacks will be unbalancing if you can't do it after attacking the enemy - after all you can do the same thing by simply not showing up for the fight in the first place! The idea is to have it as a fairly low-level utility, so I thankful to anyone pointing out how it can be exploited!
#5 adun_irving Mar 12, 2010 1:14:46	Re-word point #2 as, "you must do one of the following: ..." As-is, it still doesn't close up the potential to block up a cramped hallway.
#6 Sabelkatten Mar 12, 2010 6:01:41	Re-word point #2 as, "you must do one of the following: ..." As-is, it still doesn't close up the potential to block up a cramped hallway.  Ah, right. That's what I meant. Revised power: ________________________ "Just a nobody" Encounter Utility Interrupt action Trigger: When the enemy first detects you Special: To activate this power make a Bluff check against the highest passive Insight value on the enemy side, add 10 to your roll if they expect to see you (f.ex. a human on the streets of a human city). If the trigger was a failed stealth check the +10 bonus is never applied. The power won't let you slip by guards if they have orders not to let anyone pass, nor will it help against people who know you on sight or monsters that are simply going after everyone in the area. Effect: The enemy may not take any offensive actions against you. They may, however, include you in area-effect attacks that target known enemies. If you attack an enemy before this effect ends you gain combat advantage for that attack. The effect ends if you attack an enemy or move in such a way that you'd trigger an opportunity attack (the opportunity attack doesn't trigger). If an enemy wants to move through your square you may freely shift 1 square or drop prone to get out of the way. If you don't do either of these things you are immediately revealed, but you may make an opportunity attack against the enemy that revealed you. _________________________
#7 babyj Mar 15, 2010 2:00:43	Effect: The enemy may not take any offensive actions against you. Is this a "Target: Personal", or "Target: One creature" effect? or something else? Encounter Utility Should be a Daily Utility imho, depending on... The idea is to have it as a fairly low-level utility What level is it offered at? You seem to be avoiding revealing what level you plan to offer this - a rather integral part of any informed evaluation process.
#8 Sabelkatten Mar 15, 2010 5:15:31	Effect: The enemy may not take any offensive actions against you. Is this a "Target: Personal", or "Target: One creature" effect? or something else? ...? Do you mean whom the power effects? Since it's a rogue power I thought it should be obvious that it only effects the character him/herself, it says "you", not "ally". Or do you mean what kind of powers an enemy can use against a character using this power? "Offensive action" should be obvious: Anything that causes damage and/or negative conditions. "Not against you" means they can target you - unless, as the next sentence says, the attack is an area effect (blast, burst or similar) in which case they have to include at least one other legitimate target in the area. Encounter Utility Should be a Daily Utility imho, depending on... Is it that powerful? All it really gives you is a (possible) reroll to failed stealth checks, and an chance to trade away actions to get the initial combat advantage if you roll a low initiative. Neither seems like a great advantage to me. The idea is to have it as a fairly low-level utility What level is it offered at? You seem to be avoiding revealing what level you plan to offer this - a rather integral part of any informed evaluation process. I was thinking level 2 or maybe 6 (or is that 7? I forgot).
#9 babyj Mar 17, 2010 6:03:16	...? Do you mean whom the power effects? Since it's a rogue power I thought it should be obvious that it only effects the character him/herself, it says "you", not "ally". Or do you mean what kind of powers an enemy can use against a character using this power? "Offensive action" should be obvious: Anything that causes damage and/or negative conditions. "Not against you" means they can target you - unless, as the next sentence says, the attack is an area effect (blast, burst or similar) in which case they have to include at least one other legitimate target in the area. I just meant, does it apply to the character (and therefore all targets that spotted him), or to one particular target, but you answered my question anyways. This helps since I wasn't sure if was meant to apply to anyone who spots the character, or just one target that spots the character. Of course its not Ally.. And that clause about being indirectly targetable probably won't matter, if you appear to be a bystander, you are probably NOT standing next to the people fighting the enemy.  Encounter Utility Should be a Daily Utility imho, depending on... Is it that powerful? All it really gives you is a (possible) reroll to failed stealth checks, and an chance to trade away actions to get the initial combat advantage if you roll a low initiative. Neither seems like a great advantage to me. Your utility allows one to break the standard rules of the Stealth, so yea its kinda good. And the breakage of the rules gets you into a position to not only stay unnoticed, but get that all important CA. Its very useful for a stealthy rogue that would otherwise be foiled.   I was thinking level 2 or maybe 6 (or is that 7? I forgot). Would be 6 if a Utility. And I spose 6th lvl encounter utility is about right, provided there aren't any other serious exploits.
#10 Sabelkatten Mar 17, 2010 11:58:35	Is it that powerful? All it really gives you is a (possible) reroll to failed stealth checks, and an chance to trade away actions to get the initial combat advantage if you roll a low initiative. Neither seems like a great advantage to me. Your utility allows one to break the standard rules of the Stealth, so yea its kinda good. And the breakage of the rules gets you into a position to not only stay unnoticed, but get that all important CA. Its very useful for a stealthy rogue that would otherwise be foiled. OK, I see your point. In the games I've played so far our rogues usually hasn't had much trouble getting CA, but that might be due to inexperienced GMs. The only advantage this power gives is that the character will get one attack with CA against any target, rather than just those he wins initiative against. I suppose that might be a larger advantage against a canny GM... Anyway, level 6 seems resonable. I'll think on it some more, but thanks for the help!