Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyber-Dave Jan 14, 2009 15:22:12	Ok, let me start out with the following statement: I will not be using these rules for every setting I run. Even when I do use these rules, I will not always be using all of them. I do not advocate that any group use all these house rules in their game. These house rules are specifically designed for those players and DMs who want to run a more "realistic" and "gritty" narrative game, otherwise using the 4e rules. Also, I would like to give credit where credit is due. The System Shock rules are courtesy of Mike Mearls (though I made a few changes to them). Massive Damage Threshold: If a creature takes damage greater than or equal to its bloodied value with a single hit, the creature must make a saving throw. If it fails the saving throw it drops to zero hit points and is dying (see death and dying page 295 of the Players Handbook). Being bloodied hurts: When a character is bloodied the character takes a -1 circumstance penalty to all d20 rolls (except for death saving throws) and defences (including Armor Class). Healing takes time: You do not regain all your healing surges with an extended rest. Instead you regain a number of healing surges equal to 2 + your Constitution modifier. System Shock: When a character rises from below 0 hit points to back above that threshold, he must make a system shock saving throw. If the saving throw fails, the character sustains an injury that might hamper him for the rest of the fight. Roll 1d10 and consult the table below: 1. Sprained Arm: -2 on attacks, checks, and all defenses including AC (save ends). 2. Arm Crippled: Right or left arm useless until after short rest. 3. Wrenched Knee: Immobilized (save ends). 4. Hamstrung: Slowed until after short rest. 5. Foot Smashed: Can't shift (save ends). 6. Bell Rung: Stunned (save ends). 7. Concussion: Dazed until after next short rest. 8. Gut Shot: Weakened (save ends). 9. Bleeding Wound: Ongoing 5 damage (save ends). 10. Cracked Rib: Vulnerable 2 against all attacks until after next short rest. If an effect says "until after short rest" it means you suffer the drawback until you take a short rest. Injured: Additionally or instead of the system shock effect presented above, all characters that suffer a system shock suffer the Injured persistent condition. The Injured persistent condition causes them to only gain ½ the normal amount of hit points from all healing effects. With each extended rest a character may attempt to make a saving throw in order to remove the Injured persistent condition. A character that suffers this persistent condition may only have the Grant a Saving Throw use of the Healing skill used, in order to remove this persistent condition, on them once per day. Alternatively, instead of gaining an immediate saving throw, the Grant a Saving Throw use of the Heal skill can instead give the character suffering from the Injured persistent condition a +2 bonus to their next saving throw made to remove the effect. If a character takes a day of extended rest, meaning that a character engages in no strenuous activity and does not take part in any encounters, that character gains a +2 bonus to their next saving throw made to remove this condition.
#2 erk_ Jan 14, 2009 17:56:00	I came in expecting to sigh, but these are pretty nice. I'd like to see infection. Perhaps on some of your injuries (2,5,9, maybe some more) you have to make an Endurance check during the short rest, or get an infected wound? Then again, magical healing to me often implies a built-in antibiotic effect, so perhaps infection in a high-magic world is much rarer. Nice work. Cheers!
#3 Cyber-Dave Jan 14, 2009 18:00:40	Thank you! :D
#4 tylara67 Jan 14, 2009 18:23:14	It's interesting, but don't you worry that it makes bonuses to saving throws vastly more valuable than they would otherwise be?
#5 Cyber-Dave Jan 14, 2009 18:42:48	It's interesting, but don't you worry that it makes bonuses to saving throws vastly more valuable than they would otherwise be? Not particularly. Saving throw bonuses are already pretty significant. They effect both death, and pretty much every status effect in the game. And as I said, these rules are not for every type of game. They are for games were the feeling of "gritty" is paramount... To be honest, I sort of see these rules as effecting all classes equally. Thus, I don't see them as drastically changing class balance.
#6 erk_ Jan 14, 2009 19:01:07	Having saving throws be more valuable is probably a good thing anyway. Maybe it changes more at high levels, but the party warlord in my game almost never needs to grant saves.
#7 rikiji Jan 15, 2009 10:25:14	Having saving throws be more valuable is probably a good thing anyway. Maybe it changes more at high levels, but the party warlord in my game almost never needs to grant saves. Saving throws become more common at higher levels, although it does depend on how your DM runs the game and what types of monsters you face. Elites and Solos are also a lot more likely to dish out ongoing effects.
#8 trailfoot Feb 25, 2009 11:44:25	Huh. These are actually pretty good. Normally, when a DM says that he's running a game and using house rules to make it more "gritty" I find another game to play in because what he actually means is "easier to kill you and/or keep you from actually being able to play the game," but these are significant without being crippling. I wouldn't, as a DM, use them myself, but I'd have little or no problem playing with a couple of them.
#9 glimeral_dup Feb 25, 2009 12:19:17	Great work, although personally - I would prefer the penalty for becoming bloodied to be cumulative. IOWs, each time a character becomes bloodied in a single day, they suffer a cumulative -1 penalty to d20 checks (save mental checks) due to the lasting effects of injury. I would also rule that each extended rest or dose of "magical" (aka Divine) healing eliminates only one of these "injuries". Using a characters Second Wind or Healing Surges however - do not remove these lasting injuries (sprains, bruises, cuts, etc). As such, while a character may be at full hit points at the start of any given encounter, they may still have lasting injuries which impact their performance in that encounter.
#10 Cyber-Dave Feb 25, 2009 12:25:40	Great work, although personally - I would prefer the penalty for becoming bloodied to be cumulative. IOWs, each time a character becomes bloodied in a single day, they suffer a cumulative -1 penalty to d20 checks (save mental checks) due to the lasting effects of injury. I would also rule that each extended rest or dose of "magical" (aka Divine) healing eliminates only one of these "injuries". Using a characters Second Wind or Healing Surges however - do not remove these lasting injuries (sprains, bruises, cuts, etc). As such, while a character may be at full hit points at the start of any given encounter, they may still have lasting injuries which impact their performance in that encounter. The "Injured" rules already model lasting injuries. I'm not really a fan of your suggestion. Characters Yo-Yo their hit points quite a bit. If they suffered a cumulative -1 every time they became bloodied, I think characters would very quickly become debilitated and unable to participate in combat at all (especially considering how those -1 and +1 count for a lot more in 4e then they did before). The purpose of these rules is to model the "feeling" of injury without making injury so drastic that it will stall/halt the game.
#11 glimeral_dup Feb 25, 2009 12:43:54	Nods. I see your point. With that being said - I did mean the first time you became bloodied in an encounter, not that I explicitly stated it as such (I should correct that). As such, it would be (at worst) a cumulative -1 penalty per encounter, off-set by magical healing and/or the benefits of an extended rest. Assuming that a Divine character can provide 2-3 doses of "magical" healing per encounter, chances are fairly good that with a short rest - they should be able to remove the penalty from 2/3 of the gaming group. And this is not counting the fact that they can always take a second short rest to "heal" the party of lasting injuries if they are not otherwise pressed for time. 10 minutes is not that much longer a wait than 5 minutes after all.
#12 trailfoot Feb 25, 2009 13:31:43	With most players I've seen, if there was a risk of a cumulative penalty that went past -1, they'd just... stop. The moment someone had a penalty, they'd stop for the day, and we'd be back to 3e-style five-minute workdays. Having the penalty be a static -1 seems better to me. EDIT: Also, separating divine healing from martial devalues the warlord rather badly. Under those rules, I simply wouldn't play one, and would likely encourage the person who was doing the Leader role in a campaign I was in not to play a Warlord. A house rule that makes an option nonviable without expressly banning it tends to be... well, not bad per say, but definitely one you should consider far more deeply.
#13 Cyber-Dave Feb 25, 2009 16:19:38	Yea... I'm with trailfoot on this. The idea seems to needlessly punish any non Divine leader. I prefer the set up I already have going. It adds quite a bit of grit, it makes the bloodied condition "hurt," and models lasting injuries, without ever really slowing down or halting the game. I just think things work better as is, personally.
#14 Mechalibur Feb 25, 2009 16:23:34	I like it. *Thumbs up*
#15 1shmael Feb 25, 2009 18:42:23	I came in expecting to sigh, but these are pretty nice. I agree. These are good. Will watch as these notions evolve for perhaps my next campaign.