Cyberspace: A Plane In and Of Itself, or a Sub-plane? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Cyberspace: A Plane In and Of Itself, or a Sub-plane?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Shiftkitty
Jan 28, 2010 14:36:19 It started tongue-in-cheek, but my players want me to develop it. Many sources of inspiration have reared their heads, including Cyberpunk, Urban Arcana, and Shadowrun, so you can probably guess by now what's going on. Never mind a 100 year jump, I've been asked to roll it forward by a couple of thousand years. I got some good suggestions down in the Dragonlance thread (the initial NPCs were Kender hackers). But I know my players will want to hit Cyberspace. Should I make it a sub-plane, and if so of which one? Or should it be a plane of it's own? I'm inclined to make it a plane of it's own, but I've got so much else I'm developing for this campaign that I thought I'd just toss this out there to see what comes back.
#2
mellored
Jan 28, 2010 15:25:04 It would (technicly) be a sub-plane. It would exsist within another plane. It would almost be like a plane of dreams.
#3
Dragon9
Jan 28, 2010 18:12:36 I would make it its own plane. Although it obviously has the unusual property of being contained within the confines of technology. However, as its own plane, it makes sense, since then "hackers" or programmers with enough skill can essentially affect the plane itself (particularly powerful beings coudl achieve a Neo -level of inate control over the environment). They can make online domains for themselves that can effectively be sub- or demi-planes within the main Cyberspace plane, etc.
#4
Mist-Bound
Jan 28, 2010 21:07:59 To expand on what Dragon9 just said, I would suggest looking into the "Planar Mutability" detailed by the Manual of Planes and, especially, the Plane Below, which already has such innate fluidity that it can be moulded and changed and transformed by a PC's will.
#5
vman3force
Jan 28, 2010 23:25:30 If youre going to model it on today's world wide web, i'd have it be a seperate plane. moreover, it would be segmented into millions and millions of self contained domain planes, like websites. It would probably most resemble the layers of the abyss, in that it is a conglomerate of infinately varying locales loosely connected with portals, or links.

In my novel world, the cyber reality is much more closely knit with meatspace reality, in that the two interact with each other. on the most superficial level, the cyberworld augments the normal world, acting as an overlay and providing seamless interaction between humans and technology. the further you delve, however, the further you move away from physical interaction, to the point where the highest level hackers literally remove their conciousness from their bodies, converting it into an incrypted program. This is what i would consider a "demiplane", where it is reliant on the physical world for definition, while still having depth and qualities of its own that require a planar shift to take advantage of, sort of like the ethereal plane.
#6
Shiftkitty
Jan 29, 2010 10:18:17 Demi-plane! That's what I was thinking! I was just thumbing through my MotP this morning. (Sigh! Now I have to buy "The Plane Below"! That could be awhile until money loosens up around here.) I should start working on the properties of the plane. I figure it's highly mutable depending on the individual programmers. Would that be considered a form of "Divinely Mutable"?
#7
MWSAber
Jan 29, 2010 12:29:14 Remeber to that Cyberspace is a Time Sink. Time moves differntly for those that immerse themselves in it.
#8
vman3force
Jan 29, 2010 12:44:04 some things to consider:

- What physical properties will you use to represent cyberspace? It's already an abstraction, so how will you convey the idea of space to the players? will there be arbitrary orientation, ie up and down, or will the space be interpretable by the players. likewise, what about spatial relations; will characters still have to obey movement laws, or will objects not have fixed distances from one another?

- As far as planar mutation goes, i would split actions into categories. the highest category, which would include things such as completely restructuring the base elements of the plane, would be so hard to do that only a demigod or the like would be capable of it. Lesser groups of actions, such as mutating already existing properties, would be achievable for a trained hacker.

- How will magic translate into the cyberworld? If it was created using magic as building blocks, then maybe you can justify spells and items transferring into the plane. However, if it is a conventional cyberworld, it might not support the use of magic, or magic might have some type of adverse side effects. That would actualy be more compelling, magic could create anomalies within the coding, matrix style.
#9
Shiftkitty
Jan 29, 2010 13:29:36 Time, yeah. I was thinking that time would be relative. If the party is in Cyberspace and confronting something, time would count of as normal as far as those who are on the net would be concerned. To someone sitting back at a terminal in the RW, they would be on a different time set-up. The party may spend an entire session trying get through the security system on a site, but for the guy back at the terminal, maybe a few miniutes have passed. Probably the sort of thing I could arbitrarily decide as DM depending on my needs. It would only be an issue iof the whole party doesn't go in and whoever is still outside needs to know if they have time to do something.

I'm not sure on the physical properties yet. I'm thinking about how movement and time relate, so movement might be the same, but then how do I determine how long it might take for them to get from a deck somewhere in the scummiest reaches of the city to the personal files of the CEO of REDNet? (Arbitrary acronym, so far. I'm sure it means something somewhere in my mind...)

I like the planar mutability being on different levels. What skills would be valuable to a hacker? I'm thinking Insight and Perception for sure.

For magic, I had planned to make this take on Cyberspace a little bit Arcane. Jacking in would not be unlike entering a portal to another plane in terms of mechanics, but I'm thinking that certain power types would not translate well, or else all powers would be of the Force type regardless of their actual outcome. Anything you may have that protects you from Force powers would protect you from pretty much anything in Cyberspace, although you could still get certain other effects, such as being stunned or unconcious (which would equal locking up, I think).

I'm trying to find my Cyberpunk book for info on movement in the net. I'd like to figure out how push, pull, slide, etc. would work. What powers might forcibly log you off? What powers would fry your neurons? What penalties, if any, would you suffer from being bloodied in the net?

Oyoyoy! Methinks this could be awhile in development!
#10
cbakes
Jan 30, 2010 13:22:30
If youre going to model it on today's world wide web, i'd have it be a seperate plane. moreover, it would be segmented into millions and millions of self contained domain planes, like websites. It would probably most resemble the layers of the abyss, in that it is a conglomerate of infinately varying locales loosely connected with portals, or links.

In my novel world, the cyber reality is much more closely knit with meatspace reality, in that the two interact with each other. on the most superficial level, the cyberworld augments the normal world, acting as an overlay and providing seamless interaction between humans and technology. the further you delve, however, the further you move away from physical interaction, to the point where the highest level hackers literally remove their conciousness from their bodies, converting it into an incrypted program. This is what i would consider a "demiplane", where it is reliant on the physical world for definition, while still having depth and qualities of its own that require a planar shift to take advantage of, sort of like the ethereal plane.

That is some trippy ass stuff man..almost matrix like. If your writting a novel and need someone to give you a critique let me know!

#11
Grimbus
Jan 30, 2010 19:14:51 You could go anywhere with this. It could be "interplaner" - that is something that exists between the planes - it has its own structures and stuff going on inside it, which anyone can access in any plane, provided they have the right terminal of course. Sounds like a fascinating idea - you could run Tron like adventures and cyberpunk stuff and anything else.

#12
OleOneEye
Jan 31, 2010 9:27:10 I would say that cybespace connects with the Far Realm.
#13
Shiftkitty
Jan 31, 2010 9:40:58 I was thinking of a Far Realm connection. I was also thinking; would Cyberspace be a natural plane, there all along on the quantum scale and only accessible/decipherable to us through computers (essentially we're just seeing the version we can comprehend through our technology) or a man-made plane?
#14
vman3force
Feb 01, 2010 15:36:27 Thats up to you. You could say that the cyber "plane" was apprehended and converted into a skeleton for a computer system. This would mean that there are back doors, nooks and crannies that cyberarchitects overlooked when building in the plane. THey could lead anywhere, or hide anything. very interesting concept.

Actually, it would also help to explain how those visiting it are able to get there. It is much more plausible for them to "travel" there if it is an actual place.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Shiftkitty Jan 28, 2010 14:36:19	It started tongue-in-cheek, but my players want me to develop it. Many sources of inspiration have reared their heads, including Cyberpunk, Urban Arcana, and Shadowrun, so you can probably guess by now what's going on. Never mind a 100 year jump, I've been asked to roll it forward by a couple of thousand years. I got some good suggestions down in the Dragonlance thread (the initial NPCs were Kender hackers). But I know my players will want to hit Cyberspace. Should I make it a sub-plane, and if so of which one? Or should it be a plane of it's own? I'm inclined to make it a plane of it's own, but I've got so much else I'm developing for this campaign that I thought I'd just toss this out there to see what comes back.
#2 mellored Jan 28, 2010 15:25:04	It would (technicly) be a sub-plane. It would exsist within another plane. It would almost be like a plane of dreams.
#3 Dragon9 Jan 28, 2010 18:12:36	I would make it its own plane. Although it obviously has the unusual property of being contained within the confines of technology. However, as its own plane, it makes sense, since then "hackers" or programmers with enough skill can essentially affect the plane itself (particularly powerful beings coudl achieve a Neo -level of inate control over the environment). They can make online domains for themselves that can effectively be sub- or demi-planes within the main Cyberspace plane, etc.
#4 Mist-Bound Jan 28, 2010 21:07:59	To expand on what Dragon9 just said, I would suggest looking into the "Planar Mutability" detailed by the Manual of Planes and, especially, the Plane Below, which already has such innate fluidity that it can be moulded and changed and transformed by a PC's will.
#5 vman3force Jan 28, 2010 23:25:30	If youre going to model it on today's world wide web, i'd have it be a seperate plane. moreover, it would be segmented into millions and millions of self contained domain planes, like websites. It would probably most resemble the layers of the abyss, in that it is a conglomerate of infinately varying locales loosely connected with portals, or links. In my novel world, the cyber reality is much more closely knit with meatspace reality, in that the two interact with each other. on the most superficial level, the cyberworld augments the normal world, acting as an overlay and providing seamless interaction between humans and technology. the further you delve, however, the further you move away from physical interaction, to the point where the highest level hackers literally remove their conciousness from their bodies, converting it into an incrypted program. This is what i would consider a "demiplane", where it is reliant on the physical world for definition, while still having depth and qualities of its own that require a planar shift to take advantage of, sort of like the ethereal plane.
#6 Shiftkitty Jan 29, 2010 10:18:17	Demi-plane! That's what I was thinking! I was just thumbing through my MotP this morning. (Sigh! Now I have to buy "The Plane Below"! That could be awhile until money loosens up around here.) I should start working on the properties of the plane. I figure it's highly mutable depending on the individual programmers. Would that be considered a form of "Divinely Mutable"?
#7 MWSAber Jan 29, 2010 12:29:14	Remeber to that Cyberspace is a Time Sink. Time moves differntly for those that immerse themselves in it.
#8 vman3force Jan 29, 2010 12:44:04	some things to consider: - What physical properties will you use to represent cyberspace? It's already an abstraction, so how will you convey the idea of space to the players? will there be arbitrary orientation, ie up and down, or will the space be interpretable by the players. likewise, what about spatial relations; will characters still have to obey movement laws, or will objects not have fixed distances from one another? - As far as planar mutation goes, i would split actions into categories. the highest category, which would include things such as completely restructuring the base elements of the plane, would be so hard to do that only a demigod or the like would be capable of it. Lesser groups of actions, such as mutating already existing properties, would be achievable for a trained hacker. - How will magic translate into the cyberworld? If it was created using magic as building blocks, then maybe you can justify spells and items transferring into the plane. However, if it is a conventional cyberworld, it might not support the use of magic, or magic might have some type of adverse side effects. That would actualy be more compelling, magic could create anomalies within the coding, matrix style.
#9 Shiftkitty Jan 29, 2010 13:29:36	Time, yeah. I was thinking that time would be relative. If the party is in Cyberspace and confronting something, time would count of as normal as far as those who are on the net would be concerned. To someone sitting back at a terminal in the RW, they would be on a different time set-up. The party may spend an entire session trying get through the security system on a site, but for the guy back at the terminal, maybe a few miniutes have passed. Probably the sort of thing I could arbitrarily decide as DM depending on my needs. It would only be an issue iof the whole party doesn't go in and whoever is still outside needs to know if they have time to do something. I'm not sure on the physical properties yet. I'm thinking about how movement and time relate, so movement might be the same, but then how do I determine how long it might take for them to get from a deck somewhere in the scummiest reaches of the city to the personal files of the CEO of REDNet? (Arbitrary acronym, so far. I'm sure it means something somewhere in my mind...) I like the planar mutability being on different levels. What skills would be valuable to a hacker? I'm thinking Insight and Perception for sure. For magic, I had planned to make this take on Cyberspace a little bit Arcane. Jacking in would not be unlike entering a portal to another plane in terms of mechanics, but I'm thinking that certain power types would not translate well, or else all powers would be of the Force type regardless of their actual outcome. Anything you may have that protects you from Force powers would protect you from pretty much anything in Cyberspace, although you could still get certain other effects, such as being stunned or unconcious (which would equal locking up, I think). I'm trying to find my Cyberpunk book for info on movement in the net. I'd like to figure out how push, pull, slide, etc. would work. What powers might forcibly log you off? What powers would fry your neurons? What penalties, if any, would you suffer from being bloodied in the net? Oyoyoy! Methinks this could be awhile in development!
#10 cbakes Jan 30, 2010 13:22:30	If youre going to model it on today's world wide web, i'd have it be a seperate plane. moreover, it would be segmented into millions and millions of self contained domain planes, like websites. It would probably most resemble the layers of the abyss, in that it is a conglomerate of infinately varying locales loosely connected with portals, or links. In my novel world, the cyber reality is much more closely knit with meatspace reality, in that the two interact with each other. on the most superficial level, the cyberworld augments the normal world, acting as an overlay and providing seamless interaction between humans and technology. the further you delve, however, the further you move away from physical interaction, to the point where the highest level hackers literally remove their conciousness from their bodies, converting it into an incrypted program. This is what i would consider a "demiplane", where it is reliant on the physical world for definition, while still having depth and qualities of its own that require a planar shift to take advantage of, sort of like the ethereal plane. That is some trippy ass stuff man..almost matrix like. If your writting a novel and need someone to give you a critique let me know!
#11 Grimbus Jan 30, 2010 19:14:51	You could go anywhere with this. It could be "interplaner" - that is something that exists between the planes - it has its own structures and stuff going on inside it, which anyone can access in any plane, provided they have the right terminal of course. Sounds like a fascinating idea - you could run Tron like adventures and cyberpunk stuff and anything else.
#12 OleOneEye Jan 31, 2010 9:27:10	I would say that cybespace connects with the Far Realm.
#13 Shiftkitty Jan 31, 2010 9:40:58	I was thinking of a Far Realm connection. I was also thinking; would Cyberspace be a natural plane, there all along on the quantum scale and only accessible/decipherable to us through computers (essentially we're just seeing the version we can comprehend through our technology) or a man-made plane?
#14 vman3force Feb 01, 2010 15:36:27	Thats up to you. You could say that the cyber "plane" was apprehended and converted into a skeleton for a computer system. This would mean that there are back doors, nooks and crannies that cyberarchitects overlooked when building in the plane. THey could lead anywhere, or hide anything. very interesting concept. Actually, it would also help to explain how those visiting it are able to get there. It is much more plausible for them to "travel" there if it is an actual place.