Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yeti1069 Dec 12, 2008 11:07:58	Hi folks. I'm creating a game world and want to distinguish the different sorts of casters from one another, and as such was thinking about employing some of the alternate casting ideas from UA. My initial thought is to separate groups into prepared arcane, spontaneous, and prepared divine. Then one group would be using the Spellpoints system with the Vitalizing variant, another would be using the Recharge system, and the last would still use the Vancian system, but with some more spellslots perhaps. My questions to the community are: -Do you think this could be fairly balanced? -Will it break the game, or make one group much weaker/stronger than another? -Which group should get which casting system? I was thinking Wizards would use Vancian, Clerics would use Recharge, and Sorcerers or Favored Souls would use spellpoints.
#2 jasonorlandohawk Dec 14, 2008 22:19:41	As for Spell Points, dig up every old argument about 3.5 Psionics, and you will have a vague understanding of the nature of your question. Regretfully, you will also cease to be a rational thinking human being, forever devoted to a chain of arguments that defy all recourse to reason or civility. Personal experience: "Spell Points" creates a lot of High Burnout scenarios. Overall, I'd actually place Vancian casters as the stronger of the two systems (over the long haul), but Spell Point systems tend to be very heavily front loaded. Be prepared for frustrated characters who wondered where their spells went. Any time someone wants to use Psionics in my games, I always include a strong warning about the likelihood of burnout. When dealing w/ experienced players, that is usually sufficient to maintain the internal balance between the two classes. I have no experience w/ the recharge system, so I can't offer any advice there. You may want to browse some of the old threads and see if the topic has been discussed elsewhere.
#3 pigknight Dec 14, 2008 22:24:17	NO RECHARGE BAAAAAAD! DON'T FRIGGIN' DO EET!!! MAKES CASTERS TIER -9001. THATS NINE THOUSAND BETTER THAN THEY ARE!
#4 yeti1069 Dec 15, 2008 2:03:03	NO RECHARGE BAAAAAAD! DON'T FRIGGIN' DO EET!!! MAKES CASTERS TIER -9001. THATS NINE THOUSAND BETTER THAN THEY ARE! Care to explain?
#5 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2008 11:31:40	-In my own games, I've given Sorcerers Spell Points (Along with heritages) to differentiate them from Wizards. I haven't encountered many problems.
#6 Elemental_Elf Dec 15, 2008 11:44:58	NO RECHARGE BAAAAAAD! DON'T FRIGGIN' DO EET!!! MAKES CASTERS TIER -9001. THATS NINE THOUSAND BETTER THAN THEY ARE! Huh? Of the two I hardly see how Recharge is worse than the nova potential of Spell Points.
#7 eldritch_lord Dec 15, 2008 12:18:36	Huh? Of the two I hardly see how Recharge is worse than the nova potential of Spell Points. With Spell Points, you nova all you want in your first battle. You nova all you want in your second battle. Then you're out for the day. With Recharge, you nova all you want in your first battle. You nova all you want in your second battle. Then your spells come back 1d6 rounds later, and you nova again. You don't have as much raw power at one time in the recharge variant, since it goes by spell level and your most powerful spells are highest-level, but you can't run out. A Spell Point wizard can throw out his highest-level spells two dozen or so times; a Recharge wizard can throw them out every 1d6+1 rounds for the entire day, which (assuming the worst possible rolls) comes out to 1371 times per day.
#8 yeti1069 Dec 15, 2008 12:35:58	So there are some people for SP, and some for recharge, while there are others against one, the other or both. What about my idea of having all 3 systems in one game? Also, recharge would allow for clerics to heal all day long. I don't mind that generally, but found that it became a bit more difficult to send the PCs into a fight slightly limping already. Have any of you found this to be a problem, and are there other pitfalls I've overlooked in this regard? Oh, and the nova-aspect of spellpoints is mitigated somewhat by the vitalizing variant, since as your SP pool gets depleted, you become fatigued and then exhausted. Should Vancian casters (Wizards) be compensated in some way? Do they need it?
#9 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2008 13:08:43	-A rule that I instituted in my homebrew Ki System, that I haven't needed to use with Spell-Point Sorcerers is placing a cap on how much something can be augmented. Augmenting something with more points that your Level + appropriate modifier leaves the possibility of passing out (50% chance). Something similar might work to prevent people from burning out everything they have at once.
#10 yeti1069 Dec 15, 2008 13:18:02	Oh, another observation/question about spellpoints: Do the rules make spell work like psionics in that damage spells do not improve naturally, but require additional SP to be spent in order to improve the damage (that is, does a lvl 10 fireball do 5d6 for a wizard, and require an additional 5 SP in order to gain the full effect)? Then, if that IS the case, has anyone else noticed that casting blasty stuff becomes INCREDIBLY inefficient?
#11 eldritch_lord Dec 15, 2008 15:05:05	So there are some people for SP, and some for recharge, while there are others against one, the other or both. What about my idea of having all 3 systems in one game? The more powerful you make casters, the more insignificant melee characters are going to feel. If you're not using Tome of Battle in your games, I'd strongly suggest either allowing and encouraging it or dropping the boost to casters. Also, recharge would allow for clerics to heal all day long. I don't mind that generally, but found that it became a bit more difficult to send the PCs into a fight slightly limping already. Have any of you found this to be a problem, and are there other pitfalls I've overlooked in this regard? It's not really a problem; in the regular system, clerics can pick up wands of cure light wounds and accomplish basically the same thing. Oh, another observation/question about spellpoints: Do the rules make spell work like psionics in that damage spells do not improve naturally, but require additional SP to be spent in order to improve the damage (that is, does a lvl 10 fireball do 5d6 for a wizard, and require an additional 5 SP in order to gain the full effect)? Yep. Then, if that IS the case, has anyone else noticed that casting blasty stuff becomes INCREDIBLY inefficient? Yep. They took the least efficient kind of magic (blasting) and made it worse, while taking the best kind of magic (control/debuff) and made it more efficient. Way to go, WotC.
#12 neraagile Dec 15, 2008 19:17:31	The Recharge Variant alone is terribly broken. If you ever have to use this, combine it with something else, like vancian casting, which in turn makes it a nerf of sorts. The Spell Point variant puts both Wizard and Sorcerer behind Psions and Wilders in terms of casting possibility, in that they have less spell points than Psions and Wilders have powerpoints. However this is "remedied" (not that they really needed that) by the fact that they have a lot of spells that does not scale with level, or doesn't require to scale very high to be effective.