The sections that follow break down ranges/spaces, forced movement, and purposeful movement into easy to follow language making a narrative description of combat easier to follow in the mind's eye.
Ranges and Environment descriptors:
- Melee -> Reach -> Short -> Long
- Melee = Melee range
- Reach = Reach ranges (includes melee for attacker)
- Short = Short range for equipped weapon
- Long = Long range for equipped weapon
- Concealed = subject has degree of concealment (-2 or -5)
- Cover = subject has degree of cover (-2 or -5)
- Flanked = subject between two melee enemies, grants combat advantage
- Safe (no line of sight) = barring powers, subject can not be attacked
Power and Conditions descriptors:
- Push = target is moved 'out' one/two range categories
- Pull = target is moved 'in' one/two range categories
- Slide = target can be moved 'in' or 'out' one/two range categories, or can be moved into or out of a flanked position or other environmental effect.
- Close burst/blast = battle descriptions and formations tell targets
- Area burst/blast = same as Close burst/blast
- Ranged ≤ 10 = counts as Short range, applies also to push/pull/slides of distances 2+
- Ranged > 10 = counts as Long range
Breaking Down Movement in Narrative:
- Shift – required to get out of melee range without taking an Opportunity Attack. Moves to Reach range, or two shifts can get into a flanking position with an ally.
- Single Move – can go from Melee to Short range (and in reverse), or in melee to a close target.
- Double Move – can go from Melee to Long range (and in reverse), a subject at Long range that is not engaged by the end of its next turn may make an escape action.
- Escape – subject at Long range, not engaged in Melee or Short ranged combat, may make a saving throw. Success indicates that the subject can escape combat. Subject can be chased or tracked as normal, but ends the encounter for that subject.
- Speed ≥ 10 means subject counts as moving a Double Move as a Single Move.
- Relative Speeds – in general, unless faster movement modes are used, a subject with a higher Speed will evade a subject with a lower Speed.
Guidelines:
It must be kept in mind that this system is relative. One enemy can be Melee to one PC, but Short range to another PC. Range can also be relative to weapons. Long range for a shuriken is Short range to a longbow, for example. As a DM, when in doubt, rule on the side of the PC's or the story. Stories are generally better when the main characters win most of the time.
Without a map and miniatures, good descriptions and common sense must take hold. For the sake of all players, however, a player should not argue with the DM until after the game (or at the least, the encounter). By the same respect, the DM should not be afraid to get the map back out in large fights if confusion sets in.
Essentially, it breaks down each distance into sections on a line. There is a line for each PC, and a dot on each line for each Creature. As such as the Creatures move closer or farther away I simply erase and redot wherever they now are.
Now though, people get really nervous. They want to make sure the bugbears they're going to target are right exactly where they need to be for the electric burst spell to hit them. They want to nail it down now, for some weird reason, rather than just taking it for granted like they did with good ol' burning hands, that they could pick an angle to roast a couple of the badguys without catching their friends in the blast.
Granted, that was weeks ago. Now everyone loves the narrative style. In fact for a demo game for D&D I suggested I pull out the maps and minis so people could see the game with all the other stuff he sells at his store and the owner (a player in our weekly game) looked visibly panicked--like maps and minis would totally ruin the game and people would hate it.
I loved that a little bit. :evillaugh
But yeah, it's been great having a consistant game to get used to the new rules. I wonder why it's such a big deal trying to run this game without a map? It seems like the same sort of game. What makes doing it narrative style so dang hard now?
But yeah, it's been great having a consistant game to get used to the new rules. I wonder why it's such a big deal trying to run this game without a map? It seems like the same sort of game. What makes doing it narrative style so dang hard now?
How do the abilities for pushing/sliding work out for you and your group? Its the one thing in 4e that seems to really rely on a player looking at the map more than other editions, but I would love to hear what others think about it. I remember in 3rd edition no one in my groups ever used bull-rush because no one ever really saw the use of it, but with a map they use things like Tide of Iron all of the time now.
As a long time World of Darkness player, I'm used to doing combat in my head. ~...~ But even though it wouldn't swing me I appreciate the work you've done for the above post. Good job.
Thank you. It's a good feeling when someone who doesn't even have an interest in your work can appreciate the quality of it.
Thank you. It's a good feeling when someone who doesn't even have an interest in your work can appreciate the quality of it.
Then let me add my appreciation. My players have been actively resistant to the idea of maps and minis, although we sometimes have to break them out to clarify things. (Then the cat jumps on the table, grabs a hero or monster and runs off, and then the Great Hunt Before Kitty Performs Decapitation begins.) Just in case I ever need it, I'm going to print this out and tuck it into my folder. Reminders never hurt anyone!
Just in case I ever need it, I'm going to print this out and tuck it into my folder. Reminders never hurt anyone!
If you want it in PDF let me know via PM and I'll send you a copy. For that matter, if anyone else wants a copy, let me know.
It fits on one page easy, simple to tuck into your PHB cover.
How do the abilities for pushing/sliding work out for you and your group? Its the one thing in 4e that seems to really rely on a player looking at the map more than other editions, but I would love to hear what others think about it. I remember in 3rd edition no one in my groups ever used bull-rush because no one ever really saw the use of it, but with a map they use things like Tide of Iron all of the time now.
Pushing and sliding actually aren't a problem at all. Usually it's something like I'll mention there's a caudron of bubbling stew over the fire, or a big pit full of smoking corrosive goo, and the players will look at each other with a smile and say, "Hey is there any chance we could bowl that one bugbear over into his stew? That would be awesome!" And I laugh and nod and they try it.
The other time it comes up is to free people from holds. I don't know what the canon is on this, but it seems dramatic and fun and it makes pushes and slides happen all the time. An orc has taken an arrow in the chest and has rushed the archer who shot him, grabbed him by the throat and is lifting him in the air, choking him. Another PC runs up and uses a push attack to smash the guy away from his archer friend, succeeds and the orc goes flying.
Weirdly the stuff that ends up being hardest for guys to remember (and mostly I chalk this up to green players) is they forget about their abilities that allow them to shift. They'll rush in and attack, but then won't pull back even though some of them can. Man, if that were me, I would always be doing that kind of stuff. But I think because they don't realize the danger they're in being that close to something really nasty they hit and run without remembering to do the run part.
Coming out with a book, such as a DMG that supported narrative combat, is a good strategy for propagating interest in the game.
Various venues to play D&D - narrative, tabletop, MMO - is great!
I want it to look like I see it in my head. Inevitably I don't have the right maps, I don't have the right minis and I end up dropping something like $50 to $100 for one Worldwide D&D Day. Seriously. I figure if you're going to play with miniatures you should go all the way. The minis should look as much like the PCs as they can. If that means repainting them or taking three minis and parting two of them out to make the third one look right--so be it. I don't want to have to put a hill giant on the board and tell people it's really a carrion crawler. If I'm expecting a carrion crawler, then I'm going to get a carrion crawler dangit--and the best looking one I can, even if I have to repaint it. Maps are even harder. They NEVER look anything like what I'm searching for. I end up buying a new set of tiles or some map pack or whatever every time I run one of these things. I mean why have visual representation of what's going on in the battle and not have them look anything like what's going on in the battle, or set on a map that looks nothing like the place where the game is happening?
The other big problem I have is it feels like map based games hem you in. You can't really do unexpected things. You have the map you've brought and the minis you've brought and you get an idea that's just stellar about what would be so cool to do right now--but you can't. That kills me. Or the players will come up with a great idea to bypass a section of the dungeon and do something else that's really clever and there's no map that's anything like where they want to go.
It feels like I'm having to run two games at the same time--the game I desperately want to run, and the only game I can run because of the stuff I own.
Grim: It feels like I'm having to run two games at the same time--the game I desperately want to run, and the only game I can run because of the stuff I own.
Eventually, the virtual GameTable will make it easier to handle spontaneous visuals.
If D&DI enables players to leave an archive of customized images (creatures and maps), itl be sooner.Im sure your players appreciate your effort. It sounds like you run an impressive game.
That said, it's fairly easy to run 4e without a map. Since my players and I switch between squares and 3.5 feet all the time, tracking distance, sliding, pushing and pulling isn't a problem. It's a bit difficult to remember where everyone is, but I generally keep a small map on graph paper to keep track of where everyone is, although sometimes I don't.
I do get a lot of questions like "ok, the demon is where now?" or "I can hit everyone with the fireball" but mostly, it works well.
Narrative combat is combat without the battle-grid and miniatures. Many, many RPGs use this method (keeps the cost of play down), but many in that respect lose tactical options or excitement in combat. This document should provide guidelines for most players to enjoy 4e D&D without miniatures, which is good when you lack space or time.
The sections that follow break down ranges/spaces, forced movement, and purposeful movement into easy to follow language making a narrative description of combat easier to follow in the mind's eye.
Ranges and Environment descriptors:
- Melee -> Reach -> Short -> Long
- Melee = Melee range
- Reach = Reach ranges (includes melee for attacker)
- Short = Short range for equipped weapon
- Long = Long range for equipped weapon
[snip]
Power and Conditions descriptors:
- Push = target is moved 'out' one/two range categories
- Pull = target is moved 'in' one/two range categories
- Slide = target can be moved 'in' or 'out' one/two range categories, or can be moved into or out of a flanked position or other environmental effect.
- Close burst/blast = battle descriptions and formations tell targets
- Area burst/blast = same as Close burst/blast
- Ranged ≤ 10 = counts as Short range, applies also to push/pull/slides of distances 2+
- Ranged > 10 = counts as Long range
This is so nerfing polearms it's funny.
This is so nerfing polearms it's funny.
From experience, no, not really at all. Reach is the range in between Melee and Short. Melee can't hit people at reach range. Pretty basic common sense.
Oh yeah, I forget, that is like jumbo shrimp around here...
From experience, no, not really at all. Reach is the range in between Melee and Short. Melee can't hit people at reach range. Pretty basic common sense.
Which means that pushing someone 1 or 10 squares is exactly the same. Lame.
Which means that pushing someone 1 or 10 squares is exactly the same. Lame.
Ranged ≤ 10 = counts as Short range, applies also to push/pull/slides of distances 2+
So, um, clearly not. Pushing melee enemy 1 square will still only move from melee to reach (i.e. 1 to 2 with attacker square as 0). Your complaint would be valid for a push of 3 to 10, which fall within the realm of Short Range by this system. But in the long run of narrative combat, exactly how far in short range a target is doesn't matter, only that they fall in that range for ranged attacks.
Cause it's abstract. It's supposed to be abstract cause it's narrative combat without minis. Not everyone wants to use the plastic or metal crack after all.
Neither of which eliminates polearms, where your original complaint was at. So, at this point it just looks like you're looking for something to complain about in a system you have no intention of using in the first place.
PDF offer still stands for those that don't want to C&P themselves.
I do something similar, I as the DM also to keep track of where people are employ a kind of gauge. Essentially, it breaks down each distance into sections on a line. There is a line for each PC, and a dot on each line for each Creature. As such as the Creatures move closer or farther away I simply erase and redot wherever they now are.
I also think thats a great idea too, for people who dont have miniatures and who still want to have some sort of physical gauge of how the action is playing out, crafty indeed.