D&D as a tactical boardgame/RTS - PEACH - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

D&D as a tactical boardgame/RTS - PEACH

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
nerraDetroK
Sep 23, 2011 13:05:34 Recently I've been thinking of how to run a game like D&D like Risk or an RTS. I have zero experience with Warhammer or any other tabletop wargaming simulation and I don't think I'm trying to replicate that. I've looked over the upcoming Skirmish game rules and it's definitely not that either.

What I'm envisioning is having a game like Risk, where players control armies and countries in an attempt to control the map/world.
Obviously, the biggest problem is how to deal with players who have lost all units/areas and keep them engaged in the game. And find a way to keep players interested when their army isn't in a battle.
I've been playing with the same group for over a year and we trust each other well enough not to screw over the next guy, it may work out that the players whose armies aren't fighting assist the battling armies (or join in as a 3rd party)

Anyway, here's how I'd see things break down:
This is a VERY Rough draft, I'm not including everything in this first post, just looking for some critiques and suggestions

Like Risk, there's a world map and players control certain countries. Attack and Defense isn't done by rolling opposing d6's, but by having the typical D&D encounter fight.

Resources:
In Combat:
Hero- Each Player starts with 1 PC as their hero. Same rules for PC creation, feats, etc. Heroes can be played in any encounter, no matter what country is involved. Heroes must rest 1 battle between encounters (short rest). Skipping 3 encounters counts as an extended rest.
Heroes cost half their XP value in gold. (lvl 1= 500 gp)   Players can have up to 3 Heroes at one time, but only use 1 per encounter.

General- Each country you start with has a General. Generals are created with companion Character rules, EXCEPT each general gets one feat to choose. Generals cost 1/4 of a PC's level in gold (250gp for a lvl 1, etc) Players can have up to twice as many generals as they have countries at any given time. If the player has 5 countries and 10 generals, then loses a country, he cannot hire any more generals until he has only 7 generals, or has 6 countries again. Each country can only have 2 generals at a given time.

Other soldier units are the same as in MM's and MV's. They cost their XP value in gold. (lvl 1 minion= 25gp, Standard is 100 gp) You can have as many solider units in each country as you can afford.
Elite units are like wandering mercenaries. Not readily available, but a player can have as many Elites as they can afford.
Solo units can be bought/hired, but their availability is limited, only available when certain conditions are met.
Other types of units will be limited.  I want a general pool of units available, so not all monsters will be available but still have a decent amount of variety so that not all armies will be the same.

Traps- traps cost half their XP value in gold, and are only used by defending armies. Defending player will have to tell the DM/Judge at time of setting up the map where the traps are.

Out of Combat resources:
Gold. Gold is earned based on the number of countries controlled and the value of each country.
A swampy country may be worth 50 gp per round, forest worth 100, city worth 200, Capitol worth 500. Roads give an additional 25 gp to the base value. You also gain 25 gp per country controlled, and an additional amount if controlling an entire continent.

Actions available outside of combat:
Skill challenges to handle training troops, spy on neighboring countries, sow unrest among neighboring countries. Players would be encouraged to form temporary alliances.   Some of these Skill Challenges would contain opposing rolls by other players, to negate successes.

Train troops- Skill challenge based on type of creatures trying to train. A successful challenge would give all your creatures in that country (except Heroes and Generals) an additional level. Training also costs X amount of gold, depending on the average level of troops in the country. I'm thinking this would be a level 3 or 4 skill challenge. Failure has no cost, other than the loss of gold. It's not jsut using Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance. T otrain magic using units, Arcan is also used, as would Nature/Dungeonerring for Primal and Psionic type troops.
When hiring new troops, player can run an easy skill challenge to reduce the overall cost of troops. If they succeed, total costs is 10 or 25% less, if fail, cost is bumped by 10% or 25%. You still have to hire the unit(s) if you fail the challenge.

Spying is a Level 2 (medium) skill challenge. Player spends 100 gp and if successful, learns the total number of units and average level. If fail, player learns some of units, as chosen by spied upon player.

Sowing unrest would be a level 4 (hard) skill challenge. Success would mean some of the targeted country's units would desert or possibly defect. Other options would be that the troops would lose a level, or maybe just a -2 to attacks and defenses for the next encounter. Failureon this Skill challenge would cost gold, and give the targeted country a +1 to attacks and defenses, or perhaps give them a free Standard or 4 minions. Failure to inspire revolt would be to inspire patriotism.

Combat Encounters:
Players would each have 1 PC to control as their hero. Heroes can be played in any encounter. Each Country has a general, which would be represented by a companion character. The rest of the army is made up of your standard monsters/enemies, but played by the PC in charge.
This is not meant to have balanced fights.   Other players could/would join in by controlling the other creatures or a general. DM oversees combat and judges, but doesn't actually make any rolls or control a creature except with permission of the Defending player.

In combat, either side may call for reinforcements or for allies to help. The reinforcements arrive in X+1 rounds, where X is the number of countries away the reinforcements are. Calling for reinforcements from an adjacent country would arrive in 2 rounds.
Intimidate is used to cow a bloodied foe and removed them from the battlefield. You can't intimidate heroes or generals in this manner.
Heroes cannot be captured, but generals can. If a general "dies" in battle, he is captured. You can hire on the captured general for 75% of his normal cost, or ransom the general for 125% of his cost.

Capturing a Capitol will take 2 encounters. Where the attacker must first storm the walls, then take the halls. This means Capitols have 2 sets of creatures. Any hero used in an encounter with a Capitol can be used in the next encounter, with a free short rest.

Not sure how to have Heroes and Generals gain XP yet.

These are very basic rules/guidelines. I haven't included magic items at this point, but they'll also be present.
Any suggestions? Does even sound like it could be fun? Roleplay could be done at any time; to parlay during combat, to assist in the skill challenges, etc.
#2
stargazer_dragon
Sep 25, 2011 2:22:10 battles could end up being to large, might want to concider taking Gold in Defending country aposed by gold in attacking country the player with more gold may purchase troups, then add in generals and hero and run the much larger fight while the other troops are concidered fighting around the ongoing combat, traps could be purchased before they are ever attacked but subtract there gold then and are not counted in the contested gold.

So defending country earns 50 gold spends 10 on traps has 40 remaining
Attacking country has 50 gold.

Defender gets only hero and generals + pre purchased traps
Attacker would have 10 gold to spend on troops pluss general and armies.

makes for basicaly same idea just without 1 round of combat involving 7 or 8 monsters then next round involving 7 or 8 monsters and basicaly combat draging very slowly on
#3
rampant
Sep 25, 2011 11:07:26 ... What exactly are you trying to do differently from the dnd miniatures game?
#4
nerraDetroK
Sep 25, 2011 16:31:32
... What exactly are you trying to do differently from the dnd miniatures game?

Never played the Miniatures game so I don't know all the rules and how it's played. However, I've gotten plenty of power stat cards with minis I've bought and I assume they're for the D&D Miniatures game.

What I'm trying to do is have the combat here function the same as a regular 4e encounter. I think the Miniature game and the Skirmish game use set damage and have 1 or 2 powers per creature.

The more I think about my idea, the less I think it will work except as a long term ongoing game that could take a few months to complete. Skirmish game is expected to be done in 45-90 minutes, I assume D&D Miniiatures was about that same length.

More importantly, my gaming group didn't seem that interested so I'm just going to put it on the backburner.

Thanks for the posts though.
#5
pluisjen
Sep 26, 2011 4:47:38 Personally in big battles I would make squads of units into a single creature with the swarm subtype.

Also I'm working on a kingdom system for D&D which will involve army vs army battles, something I'm working on when I have free time. The battle section isn't up yet, but will be soon... hopefully.
#6
stargazer_dragon
Sep 26, 2011 20:17:19 for all large scale battle sbest way I see to handle them is like video games, they go on around the party, with the party targeting key points that alter the flow of the combat, the PC fight a sring of smaller encounters
#7
belaine
Sep 26, 2011 21:57:54
for all large scale battle sbest way I see to handle them is like video games, they go on around the party, with the party targeting key points that alter the flow of the combat, the PC fight a sring of smaller encounters

That's how I always handled it. The larger battle being background noise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nerraDetroK Sep 23, 2011 13:05:34	Recently I've been thinking of how to run a game like D&D like Risk or an RTS. I have zero experience with Warhammer or any other tabletop wargaming simulation and I don't think I'm trying to replicate that. I've looked over the upcoming Skirmish game rules and it's definitely not that either. What I'm envisioning is having a game like Risk, where players control armies and countries in an attempt to control the map/world. Obviously, the biggest problem is how to deal with players who have lost all units/areas and keep them engaged in the game. And find a way to keep players interested when their army isn't in a battle. I've been playing with the same group for over a year and we trust each other well enough not to screw over the next guy, it may work out that the players whose armies aren't fighting assist the battling armies (or join in as a 3rd party) Anyway, here's how I'd see things break down: This is a VERY Rough draft, I'm not including everything in this first post, just looking for some critiques and suggestions Like Risk, there's a world map and players control certain countries. Attack and Defense isn't done by rolling opposing d6's, but by having the typical D&D encounter fight. Resources: In Combat: Hero- Each Player starts with 1 PC as their hero. Same rules for PC creation, feats, etc. Heroes can be played in any encounter, no matter what country is involved. Heroes must rest 1 battle between encounters (short rest). Skipping 3 encounters counts as an extended rest. Heroes cost half their XP value in gold. (lvl 1= 500 gp) Players can have up to 3 Heroes at one time, but only use 1 per encounter. General- Each country you start with has a General. Generals are created with companion Character rules, EXCEPT each general gets one feat to choose. Generals cost 1/4 of a PC's level in gold (250gp for a lvl 1, etc) Players can have up to twice as many generals as they have countries at any given time. If the player has 5 countries and 10 generals, then loses a country, he cannot hire any more generals until he has only 7 generals, or has 6 countries again. Each country can only have 2 generals at a given time. Other soldier units are the same as in MM's and MV's. They cost their XP value in gold. (lvl 1 minion= 25gp, Standard is 100 gp) You can have as many solider units in each country as you can afford. Elite units are like wandering mercenaries. Not readily available, but a player can have as many Elites as they can afford. Solo units can be bought/hired, but their availability is limited, only available when certain conditions are met. Other types of units will be limited. I want a general pool of units available, so not all monsters will be available but still have a decent amount of variety so that not all armies will be the same. Traps- traps cost half their XP value in gold, and are only used by defending armies. Defending player will have to tell the DM/Judge at time of setting up the map where the traps are. Out of Combat resources: Gold. Gold is earned based on the number of countries controlled and the value of each country. A swampy country may be worth 50 gp per round, forest worth 100, city worth 200, Capitol worth 500. Roads give an additional 25 gp to the base value. You also gain 25 gp per country controlled, and an additional amount if controlling an entire continent. Actions available outside of combat: Skill challenges to handle training troops, spy on neighboring countries, sow unrest among neighboring countries. Players would be encouraged to form temporary alliances. Some of these Skill Challenges would contain opposing rolls by other players, to negate successes. Train troops- Skill challenge based on type of creatures trying to train. A successful challenge would give all your creatures in that country (except Heroes and Generals) an additional level. Training also costs X amount of gold, depending on the average level of troops in the country. I'm thinking this would be a level 3 or 4 skill challenge. Failure has no cost, other than the loss of gold. It's not jsut using Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance. T otrain magic using units, Arcan is also used, as would Nature/Dungeonerring for Primal and Psionic type troops. When hiring new troops, player can run an easy skill challenge to reduce the overall cost of troops. If they succeed, total costs is 10 or 25% less, if fail, cost is bumped by 10% or 25%. You still have to hire the unit(s) if you fail the challenge. Spying is a Level 2 (medium) skill challenge. Player spends 100 gp and if successful, learns the total number of units and average level. If fail, player learns some of units, as chosen by spied upon player. Sowing unrest would be a level 4 (hard) skill challenge. Success would mean some of the targeted country's units would desert or possibly defect. Other options would be that the troops would lose a level, or maybe just a -2 to attacks and defenses for the next encounter. Failureon this Skill challenge would cost gold, and give the targeted country a +1 to attacks and defenses, or perhaps give them a free Standard or 4 minions. Failure to inspire revolt would be to inspire patriotism. Combat Encounters: Players would each have 1 PC to control as their hero. Heroes can be played in any encounter. Each Country has a general, which would be represented by a companion character. The rest of the army is made up of your standard monsters/enemies, but played by the PC in charge. This is not meant to have balanced fights. Other players could/would join in by controlling the other creatures or a general. DM oversees combat and judges, but doesn't actually make any rolls or control a creature except with permission of the Defending player. In combat, either side may call for reinforcements or for allies to help. The reinforcements arrive in X+1 rounds, where X is the number of countries away the reinforcements are. Calling for reinforcements from an adjacent country would arrive in 2 rounds. Intimidate is used to cow a bloodied foe and removed them from the battlefield. You can't intimidate heroes or generals in this manner. Heroes cannot be captured, but generals can. If a general "dies" in battle, he is captured. You can hire on the captured general for 75% of his normal cost, or ransom the general for 125% of his cost. Capturing a Capitol will take 2 encounters. Where the attacker must first storm the walls, then take the halls. This means Capitols have 2 sets of creatures. Any hero used in an encounter with a Capitol can be used in the next encounter, with a free short rest. Not sure how to have Heroes and Generals gain XP yet. These are very basic rules/guidelines. I haven't included magic items at this point, but they'll also be present. Any suggestions? Does even sound like it could be fun? Roleplay could be done at any time; to parlay during combat, to assist in the skill challenges, etc.
#2 stargazer_dragon Sep 25, 2011 2:22:10	battles could end up being to large, might want to concider taking Gold in Defending country aposed by gold in attacking country the player with more gold may purchase troups, then add in generals and hero and run the much larger fight while the other troops are concidered fighting around the ongoing combat, traps could be purchased before they are ever attacked but subtract there gold then and are not counted in the contested gold. So defending country earns 50 gold spends 10 on traps has 40 remaining Attacking country has 50 gold. Defender gets only hero and generals + pre purchased traps Attacker would have 10 gold to spend on troops pluss general and armies. makes for basicaly same idea just without 1 round of combat involving 7 or 8 monsters then next round involving 7 or 8 monsters and basicaly combat draging very slowly on
#3 rampant Sep 25, 2011 11:07:26	... What exactly are you trying to do differently from the dnd miniatures game?
#4 nerraDetroK Sep 25, 2011 16:31:32	... What exactly are you trying to do differently from the dnd miniatures game? Never played the Miniatures game so I don't know all the rules and how it's played. However, I've gotten plenty of power stat cards with minis I've bought and I assume they're for the D&D Miniatures game. What I'm trying to do is have the combat here function the same as a regular 4e encounter. I think the Miniature game and the Skirmish game use set damage and have 1 or 2 powers per creature. The more I think about my idea, the less I think it will work except as a long term ongoing game that could take a few months to complete. Skirmish game is expected to be done in 45-90 minutes, I assume D&D Miniiatures was about that same length. More importantly, my gaming group didn't seem that interested so I'm just going to put it on the backburner. Thanks for the posts though.
#5 pluisjen Sep 26, 2011 4:47:38	Personally in big battles I would make squads of units into a single creature with the swarm subtype. Also I'm working on a kingdom system for D&D which will involve army vs army battles, something I'm working on when I have free time. The battle section isn't up yet, but will be soon... hopefully.
#6 stargazer_dragon Sep 26, 2011 20:17:19	for all large scale battle sbest way I see to handle them is like video games, they go on around the party, with the party targeting key points that alter the flow of the combat, the PC fight a sring of smaller encounters
#7 belaine Sep 26, 2011 21:57:54	for all large scale battle sbest way I see to handle them is like video games, they go on around the party, with the party targeting key points that alter the flow of the combat, the PC fight a sring of smaller encounters That's how I always handled it. The larger battle being background noise.