I just graduated from High School yesterday, and the stress is (at last!) over. And yet now, after posting on the Gleemax boards like a maniac, I really want to do a Kingdom Hearts PbP game.
With the D&D 4e rules.
This idea just kind of popped into my head. I was remembering the DMG (or was it the PH?) when it said you could easily turn a D&D game into a Martial Arts movie-type-thing by changing the flavor/title of powers. Naturally, my KH-junkie imagination took this as far as it could, and declared that a Kingdom Hearts campaign, run with the 4e rules, would somehow be a brilliant idea.
There are a few problems I have, though, which is why I'm posting this har thread, dag nabbit, yup:
1.) Total Re-Flavoring or Total Restructuring?
-If I do this, what would I have to do to adapt the current classes/races to KH style? Could I just rename Paladin "Keyblade Champion" or something? What about wizards and rogues? (And who would want to play one in a campaign based on a Disney game where you hit things with a giant key?)
-Races could easily become "Origin Worlds." (Agrabah, Halloween Town, Destiny Islands, Twilight Town, etc.)
-Are the classes of 4e too far off (in mechanics) than KH? Would I have to go through the ridiculous amount of time it takes to create my own classes? That's what bugs me.
2.) Legality
-Would it be okay to run this campaign on the WotC website? The Real Adventures section mentions something about homebrewed variations of World of Darkness, an intellectual property that isn't WotC's. Would a homebrew KH be okay as well?
3.) Too hard to pull off the KH feel?
-Just what it says. How would I do that whole "crossover" feel? The novelty would be gone, and it would be like a bad fanfic. (Or would it?)
These are just my thoughts on the idea. I'd like to here yours. Thanks!
--Blades
You could use the backgrounds mechanic as a way to show where characters are from, and rename races to fit their cartoon counterparts. In this way, Sora would become a human swordmage with the "destiny islands" background, Riku would be a paladin of twilight also with a background in destiny islands. Axel would be a BA tempest fighter with a background in the organization. They're all humans, but they each have different backgrounds.
This way you only have to write up stats for backgrounds, and can keep the 4.0 mechanics in place without too much refluffing. Races simply change names: Dwarf becomes Dog or dwarf(like goofy or one of the 7), elf becomes bird (like donald) etc... That way you can have characters of the same race, but with different backgrounds.
I think the classes in 4.0 fit final fantasy/KH better than any edition so far. Just compare them to FF tactics classes: a different feel, but pretty dang close.
It would be like a bad fanfic. (Or would it?)
It would be like a bad fanfic. A bad fanfic with horrible, horrible unbalanced rules. It really would. I will wager you money that no matter how much time and effort you put into creating this modification, your players will sit down to it for one session, have a laugh, and then find a million excuses to not turn up for a second outing.
However, the reason I know this is from the long experience of countless DMs who've gone and done it, or something like it. There's always someone who wants to do Final Fantasy D&D, or Evangelion D&D, or Gummi Bears D&D or some crazy thing, and it'll probably take doing two or three of these abortive projects and some experience in other RPGs to realise that D&D is a blunt tool, poorly suited to the work you're putting it to.
And you know what? All those people who tried that had fun. And they had fun even though they never actually got a game off the ground, and they had fun even though their final campaign document was a confusing mishmash of poorly-conceived homebrew, and they had fun even though nobody except themselves ever really understood all the work they put into it. And they learned from it.
So go nuts. Make your crazy Kingdom Hearts D&D abomination. It's one of the weird illogical traditions of Dungeons & Dragons and you're welcome to it. When your enthusiasm for the game exceeds its capabaility to reward that enthusiasm it's a wonderful nirvana of geekiness that you should really take the time to enjoy.
...it would be like a bad fanfic. (Or would it?)
To be honest, Kingdom Hearts itself sounds like a bad fanfic, especially if all you know about it is "Final Fantasy plus Disney". A lot of people don't like Final Fantasy, don't like Disney, don't like fanfics, and don't like people trying to do something new with an existing work. They're entitled to their opinions.
But if you ask me, Kingdom Hearts was awesome. If my DM mentioned he was thinking about a KH-themed D&D campaign, I wouldn't let him sleep until he brought it to fruition. It wouldn't be the grim, gritty, serious game that D&D tends to be, but it would be fun.
Sure, it may have been done before, and done very, very poorly, but that's no reason why it can't turn into an enjoyable—and memorable—game (and in the end, that's all that matters). The potential exists to make this an awesome idea. My recommendation would simply be to re-fluff and re-flavor as needed. No need to revamp the whole system (too much work, anyways). No need to make a new class, maybe just a paragon path or three, and a thematically appropriate epic destiny.
Just as Kingdom Hearts merged Disney's established settings and characters with Final Fantasy's characters, I'd merge your KH with at least one established D&D campaign world (like Forgotten Realms or Eberron).
I have no clue about the legal issues involved with running one on the WotC site, but personally, my recommendation is to kick reason to the curb and do the impossible. If you don't believe in your own abilities, that's okay—believe in the fans of both Kingdom Hearts and D&D, who believe in you.
And on that note, I'm gunna go back to my work on my D&D one-shot based on Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
RRFTP
You see, you're not alone...
I agree that you should just refluff so as to minimize the ammount of work you have to put in other than designing adventures. Use the backgrounds mechanic to allow characters from varying worlds, and allow the gummi ship to be able to fly to Toril or another D&D world.
As for classes, here's what I'd see:
Sora - swordmage
Donald - wizard
Goofy - warlord
Riku - warlock
Kairi - rogue
That would be a pretty effective party, I think.
I have a simple solution for the races, make Waterdeep one of the worlds. It's a well known town, and lets say the main characters can't form some reason leave the town. This makes it so that they could be D&D races without having to do anything that special.For characters like Donald and Goofy just find a race that suits them and give them those stats and maybe the powers. You could also easily design your own Disney worlds and Homebrew places. If you want to take them to Agrabah, then Aladin would be a rogue. Go to Halloween town make Jack a Warlock.
It's easy to change weapons like make the kingdom key a short sword, and other keyblades short swords with different bonuses. Make Ultima a d12 weapon and just mess around with all the stuff. Make sure though when you are doing this with the weapons that you somehow throw in the Disney characters weapons, but i don't recommend using them that much in battle unless you really want too.
Are you going to make your own villains as well? I find that could be easier, use original Disney villains and some of your own design. If you wish you could include some traces of Organization XIII but don;t try to remake them and come up with excuses on how they exist again. Heartless will be really easy to design and you can just easily go through the monster manual, take the stats of a monster, and then just change it to a heartless.
I find that the powers may be a slight problem in some cases, but overall i don't see that much of a threat to game play. Maybe describe some of the spells and powers in a more cartoon-ish way when playing the game.
I find the idea for this really exciting though being a HUGE fanboy of KH and all, but if done correctly it could turn out to be a lot of fun. If you think i could help you with anymore please don't be afraid to ask.
You know what? Even though this will probably end disastrously, I think I'll try it. XD I'll need time to work on it, but it could be a heck of a lot of fun.
A question, though:
Can you guys think of any D&D PH1 classes that would work as a Keyblade-Wielder? I'm just wondering why the swordmage is such a great pick (I don't own the FRPH). Thanks!
I didn't think this idea would get such a warm reaction from the D&D community...awesome! :D
You know what? Even though this will probably end disastrously, I think I'll try it. XD I'll need time to work on it, but it could be a heck of a lot of fun.
A question, though:
Can you guys think of any D&D PH1 classes that would work as a Keyblade-Wielder? I'm just wondering why the swordmage is such a great pick (I don't own the FRPH). Thanks!
Maybe the Warlock would be a good class, since Warlocks fight with melee weapons, and they also use magic at the same time. ;)
I didn't think this idea would get such a warm reaction from the D&D community...awesome! :D
You know what? Even though this will probably end disastrously, I think I'll try it. XD I'll need time to work on it, but it could be a heck of a lot of fun.
A question, though:
Can you guys think of any D&D PH1 classes that would work as a Keyblade-Wielder? I'm just wondering why the swordmage is such a great pick (I don't own the FRPH). Thanks!
The swordmage's weapon is the focus of all his attacks... Kinda like Sora's. Magic, melee, or defense: kinda like the game (which I picked up thanks to this thread...) That and he has a power in there that is just like something I saw a keyblade wielder use in part 2 of Monty Oum's "Dead Fantasy"
Not Canon, but sweeeeet
Can you guys think of any D&D PH1 classes that would work as a Keyblade-Wielder?
I don't see why any class couldn't be a Keyblade Wielder...certainly, the classes that favor swords match the fluff best, but why not expand the concept a little and let different Keyblades serve as, say, a wizard's implement, or the like? If you had a game with multiple players who wanted to be a Keyblade Wielder (and I'd imagine you would), this would be a way to permit that without everyone being a Paladin (for example).
I don't see why any class couldn't be a Keyblade Wielder...certainly, the classes that favor swords match the fluff best, but why not expand the concept a little and let different Keyblades serve as, say, a wizard's implement, or the like? If you had a game with multiple players who wanted to be a Keyblade Wielder (and I'd imagine you would), this would be a way to permit that without everyone being a Paladin (for example).
This is a good idea.
Class: Keep classes as they are for some traditional feel, but add in a couple of custom classes geared towards Valor and Wisdom form. Or, of course, one could reflavor swordmages. You could likely throw in some paragon paths and destinies for the fun of it. Let's face it, a paragon path based entirely on Heartless form would be awesome.
EDIT: Or, perhaps, keep all classes as they are and make Keyblade Wielding a feat available at player creation. This grants them a keyblade that acts as a weapon and implement for their chosen class (if applicable). Make keyblades enchantable. Still consider paragon paths.
Worlds: As brought up earlier, the worlds and transport between them will be a problem. The easiest way to go about this is to scratch gummi ships altogether, and take a more common Planar travel route about it. Perhaps make the starting realm a hub world, with portals scattered about that come from different places. Depending on your tastes, you can make them lead to Disney places, Square places, or fanfic-esque places that fit in with the non-crossover parts of KH lore.
If I think of anything else, I'll be sure to throw it in. Good luck!
Looks like somebody already had this idea. :D
Jeremy Puckett