Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lathros May 19, 2009 22:06:52	Three new daggers. Again, I don't know if any of these are used in the 4.0 edition, I came up with these a while back after searching for new daggers for thieves and magic users. And I want to note that the text is a copy/paste from various websites on the weapons. Phurba -- The Phurba is a three-sided dagger with a pommel. The blade is usually comprised of three triangular facets or faces, meeting at the tip; representing, the blade's power to transform the negative energies of attachment/craving, delusion/ignorance, and aversion/fear. Blade length ranges from 5-8 inches. 1-4 hp Khukuri -- A Khukuri is a curved steel knife designed for chopping with the lethal blow of an axe. Blades are deflected at an angle of 20° or more, with a thick spine and a single sharp cutting edge; this causes the end section of the blade to strike square on, greatly increasing chopping effectiveness. Blade length varies from 7-10 inches. 2-8 hp Rondel -- A stiff-bladed dagger with a rounded handle for an “icepick” grip that can easily burst through links of mail. Its blade length varies from 6-12 inches. 1-6 hp This last one was used in the movie Excalibur when the two knights fought over Guinevere's innocence.
#2 wyld_mutation May 21, 2009 13:19:08	Is Khukuri an alternative spelling to Kukri? Anyway: Like it or not WotC decided to balance the Rogue dagger stuff (and all items rogues use in the PHB) around the rogue and not vice-versa. Which leads to the Rapier being underpowered, and makes additional "daggers" possibly OP. The AV introduces the Parrying Dagger and Kukri (both superior) as weapons which can be used with Rogue Weapon Talent, but not with other dagger-related tricks (such as Daggermaster and Sorceror). A Parrying Dagger is +2 1d4 Defensive A Kukri is +2 1d6 Brutal1 IIRC on the stats anyway.
#3 lathros May 21, 2009 20:17:42	Is Khukuri an alternative spelling to Kukri? Anyway: Like it or not WotC decided to balance the Rogue dagger stuff (and all items rogues use in the PHB) around the rogue and not vice-versa. Which leads to the Rapier being underpowered, and makes additional "daggers" possibly OP. The AV introduces the Parrying Dagger and Kukri (both superior) as weapons which can be used with Rogue Weapon Talent, but not with other dagger-related tricks (such as Daggermaster and Sorceror). A Parrying Dagger is +2 1d4 Defensive A Kukri is +2 1d6 Brutal1 IIRC on the stats anyway. Yes, both spellings are common. Here's a pic of what it looks like: http://www.khukuriblades.com/ Oooohhh, I LIKE the parrying dagger. I never ran across it during my search. I'll go jot that down. Here are some other types of daggers for anyone who would like to use and write statistics for. Kindjal -- A double-edged single-fullered dagger with a handle that is crafted so that it has both a guard and pommel extending out of it as a part of the handle. The blade length is generally 11 inches. 1-6 hp http://www.russianswords.com/Daggers3.htm Scramasax Dagger (Seax) -- A scramasax is a type of single-edged knife utilized as both a tool and a weapon. Its blade ranges from 9-20 inches. 1-4 hp/1-6 hp http://www.practice-swords.com/images/products/lrg/kh2184b-lrg.jpg
#4 wyld_mutation May 21, 2009 21:02:56	On a very basic level those really are JUST daggers. How you describe your weapon is up to you, if you want a longknife you have a longknife, you doin;t always have to reflect it with mechanics. A Kindjal seems to be roughly akin ot a parrying dagger fronm its description. I'd just use a Kukri to represent the Scramasax. I'm generaly in favor of re-fluffing as opposed to creating new mechanical iterations. So much of the mechanical combinations have been used up already that making new things generally just confuses the matter. You can always request the DM to allow you to treaty a 1d6 Light Blade of your choice as a Dagger for Rogue Weapon Talent. The problem is that most weapons weren't balanced with the Rogue Talent in mind, a design decision which I understand but don;t exactlty agtree with. IMO the Rogue should have been balanced SEPERATRLY from its weapon choices, to prevent OP comboes such as the Double Sword fiasco and the introduction of new Light Blades.
#5 lathros May 21, 2009 22:32:39	On a very basic level those really are JUST daggers. How you describe your weapon is up to you, if you want a longknife you have a longknife, you doin;t always have to reflect it with mechanics. A Kindjal seems to be roughly akin ot a parrying dagger fronm its description. I'd just use a Kukri to represent the Scramasax. I'm generaly in favor of re-fluffing as opposed to creating new mechanical iterations. So much of the mechanical combinations have been used up already that making new things generally just confuses the matter. You can always request the DM to allow you to treaty a 1d6 Light Blade of your choice as a Dagger for Rogue Weapon Talent. The problem is that most weapons weren't balanced with the Rogue Talent in mind, a design decision which I understand but don;t exactlty agtree with. IMO the Rogue should have been balanced SEPERATRLY from its weapon choices, to prevent OP comboes such as the Double Sword fiasco and the introduction of new Light Blades. Hmmm, with all due respect, the kinjal is absolutely nothing like the parrying dagger. If you read the descriptions then there wouldn't be any confusion. I don't understand how adding more alternative weapons confuses the matter. I am the DM. I was just sharing ideas perhaps someone would like to use.
#6 AbdulAlhazred May 22, 2009 16:24:19	The way I see it you basically have dagger and short sword. The katar was enough different to warrant its own weapon entry, I'm not so sure about the kukri. Despite what AV says it was designed as a throwing weapon mainly. They are a bit large and heavy as daggers go, I'm not convinced it really warranted a d6 damage. They SURE aren't as hefty as your average short sword. As for other daggers, the rondel was simply a sharpened metal stake with a handle. It was intended only for sliding through a helpless enemy's armor. They were used as weapons, but if anything it is less effective than a normal dagger, having no edges and only a point. Really. There is scant room between shortsword and dagger. Not enough for much else. Seax's and kukris are marginally different but if you go around taking every dagger/fighting knife/small sword blade pattern and calling it a different weapon I can come up with literally 100's of them for you. Fluff is a much better way to deal with this, any mechanical differences are just immeasurably small.
#7 daeva May 23, 2009 2:26:32	i also am a fan of re fluff to the point that if my friend mechanically wanted to use a fullblade, but envisioned his character as a spear user he just happens to have a spear that uses full blade stats uses the same feats as the fullblade and what not. the very last thing i want is for a player to go well.. im not going to play the fighter because i like spears but not spear abilities.
#8 wyld_mutation May 23, 2009 12:16:06	Hmmm, with all due respect, the kinjal is absolutely nothing like the parrying dagger. If you read the descriptions then there wouldn't be any confusion. I don't understand how adding more alternative weapons confuses the matter. I am the DM. I was just sharing ideas perhaps someone would like to use. Kindjal -- A double-edged single-fullered dagger with a handle that is crafted so that it has both a guard and pommel extending out of it as a part of the handle. The blade length is generally 11 inches. 1-6 hp So... a Dagger with extra guard? Sounds like a parrying dagger to me. Not to be argumentative, I just don't see what sets it apart. @abdul: A Kukri is NOT a thrown weapon. I read up on it to double-check. It is in fact more akin to a small axe.
#9 AbdulAlhazred May 24, 2009 10:02:17	I think the main point is that if you make a whole slew of different weapons out of what are all basically a dagger then you are making each one require a different weapon proficiency in order to use various weapons which essentially all work the same way. I can see the logic of requiring a separate proficiency in order to properly use a defensive parrying dagger effectively. I can't really see the logic of requiring a different proficiency to use most of them to make basic attacks with. We have dagger, which covers anything with a straight blade, kukri covers "hatchet like" fighting knives, katar covers various designs of punching dagger, and parrying dagger covers various daggers designed to deflect and trap enemy weapons. Do we really need a roundel proficiency and a phurba proficiency, etc? I really don't think so. I've used basically the same argument with the people that desire to introduce 18 different variations of pole arms. Yes, historically many weapons have been produced in a variety of slight variations of form, but essentially there are really only a limited number of meaningful variations which cover them all. I'm not suggesting there are no possibilities for further weapons in 4e, but at some point subdividing them down into ever finer gradiations just becomes a bit silly and artificially limiting. The majority of the weapons in AV IMHO are already beyond that limit, adding a whole lot more won't do anything meaningful for the game.