Daily power issue, looking for ideas - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Daily power issue, looking for ideas

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dasterin
Jun 05, 2010 13:29:06 Howdy, haven't been on the forums here in quite some time :o

Anyway, the issue at hand: My players (and I) don't like how easy it is to miss on Daily powers, since we all treat them like anime super moves, complete with opening speech. It's a little goofy for someone to do all that, and then miss because of a dice roll. (Yes, that's how the game works, and I love it for everything EXCEPT Dailies) So I'm trying to find a good way to make it more likely to hit on Daily powers, for dramatic reasons.

My ideas include:

1) Giving all dailies a +3(ish) to hit.

2) The one I am liking most: Let action points give a +6(ish) to the next attack roll that turn, instead of taking an extra action. This would also trigger PP effects and Warlord effects that work off of action point spending.

My concern is that, naturally, the game is designed with the idea that dailies can miss. So other than the players just being able to deal more damage easily, is there any large ramifications to this that I've missed? Any other ideas regarding how to make Daily powers more dramatically usable?

Thanks for the advice, everyone. (I wasn't sure if I should post this in the other section, about DM help, but I figure since it's houseruling ideas I'm looking for, this was the correct location)
#2
alitain
Jun 05, 2010 22:32:37 Alright, just going to say it. Sorry your players hate missing with dailies, but boo hoo! Sometimes you miss, that's the chance you take when you roll the dice whether its an at will, encounter, or daily. Yeah, bummer that it may happen on a daily, but seriously, your players and yourself just need to get over it. Doesn't matter that dailies are generally more powerful or beneficial it terms of effects than other moves, you miss you miss go on with life.

Look I'm sorry, maybe I was rude, but I just think that's ridiculous to want to make it easier for players to hit with dailies. Why do you honestly feel you need to make it easier to hit? Because you and your players like dailies? I'm sorry, but whatever you decide to do is your deal I just think its bogus to give a bonus or in any way make it easier to hit with dailies or any attacks unless its through legit bonuses from powers and such in the game.
#3
Thought
Jun 08, 2010 13:06:35 Perhaps you missed the part where this is the House Rules forum, Alitain? If the entire group wants to house rule out missing on dailies, why should that be something to gainsay? What would make this any less of a legit modification to the game than, say, critical misses?

Anywho, Dasterin, the basic problem with making daily powers always hit is that they're powerful. Consider the long term effect of this. A daily might hit, it might miss. Thus, the damage it deals out is tempered over time. But if it always hits, then over time it is effectively dealing a great deal more damage, making encounters easier to dispatch.

There are two easy solutions to this, however; the first is to have more enemies per encounter, and the second is to have tougher enemies. Both will be called for in certain situations. "Bosses", for example, will need to be tougher to withstand the onslaught of guaranteed hit dailies. Normal encounters could probably just squeak by with an extra baddy or two.
#4
urpriest
Jun 08, 2010 15:55:41 Making dailies have a much easier time hitting would also cause a lot of trouble with controllers, whose stunning and dominating dailies would lock down important foes.

I sympathize with your goal, but if you want to make dailies more dramatic, why not give them equally dramatic miss effects? Anime super powers do occasionally miss, mostly because the target did something equally awesome. If the fighter just missed with his 7[W] attack, have the enemy call out some crazy dodge maneuver.

Another thing, though this will only work for AOE dailies, is to litter the field with minions. That way even if you miss major targets, you'll still feel like you did a lot.
#5
celloshane
Jun 08, 2010 17:57:36 @ Alitain - Isn't that sort of attitude wholly contradictory to the point of the House Rules forum?

@ Dasterin - Perhaps instead of making Dailies always hit, you could give each Daily a Miss line. That way if the player rolls badly, you still feel like the powerful attack accomplished something.

Ok, I just realized this post basically says the same thing as urpriest. So, the only thing I have to add is maybe a missed attack could open up a terrain feature.

I do like the idea of Action Points giving a bonus to the attack. +6 seems a bit excessive though, perhaps a +4 would be more reasonable.
#6
Crimson_Concerto
Jun 08, 2010 18:19:32
Perhaps instead of making Dailies always hit, you could give each Daily a Miss line. That way if the player rolls badly, you still feel like the powerful attack accomplished something.

Actually, dailies already work like this, which is why I'm not really understanding the problem here myself. There are only a small, small handful of daily powers that don't either have (A) a "Miss:" line so that they still accomplish something great even when they miss, (B) an "Effect:" line so that that accomplish something great regardless of whether they hit or miss, or (C) the "Reliable" keyword so that they aren't expended if they miss. The few, few daily powers that I know of that don't include one of these three do at least include multiple attack rolls, significantly boosting the probability that the power will hit.

Now, one problem may be that your group is forgetting that an "Effect:" line does not require a hit in order to take effect. I know that many posters in the past have not realized this, and I know that many in my own group did not realize this at first, so once that becomes clear, it should alleviate a lot of the worry if that was indeed the problem to begin with.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dasterin Jun 05, 2010 13:29:06	Howdy, haven't been on the forums here in quite some time :o Anyway, the issue at hand: My players (and I) don't like how easy it is to miss on Daily powers, since we all treat them like anime super moves, complete with opening speech. It's a little goofy for someone to do all that, and then miss because of a dice roll. (Yes, that's how the game works, and I love it for everything EXCEPT Dailies) So I'm trying to find a good way to make it more likely to hit on Daily powers, for dramatic reasons. My ideas include: 1) Giving all dailies a +3(ish) to hit. 2) The one I am liking most: Let action points give a +6(ish) to the next attack roll that turn, instead of taking an extra action. This would also trigger PP effects and Warlord effects that work off of action point spending. My concern is that, naturally, the game is designed with the idea that dailies can miss. So other than the players just being able to deal more damage easily, is there any large ramifications to this that I've missed? Any other ideas regarding how to make Daily powers more dramatically usable? Thanks for the advice, everyone. (I wasn't sure if I should post this in the other section, about DM help, but I figure since it's houseruling ideas I'm looking for, this was the correct location)
#2 alitain Jun 05, 2010 22:32:37	Alright, just going to say it. Sorry your players hate missing with dailies, but boo hoo! Sometimes you miss, that's the chance you take when you roll the dice whether its an at will, encounter, or daily. Yeah, bummer that it may happen on a daily, but seriously, your players and yourself just need to get over it. Doesn't matter that dailies are generally more powerful or beneficial it terms of effects than other moves, you miss you miss go on with life. Look I'm sorry, maybe I was rude, but I just think that's ridiculous to want to make it easier for players to hit with dailies. Why do you honestly feel you need to make it easier to hit? Because you and your players like dailies? I'm sorry, but whatever you decide to do is your deal I just think its bogus to give a bonus or in any way make it easier to hit with dailies or any attacks unless its through legit bonuses from powers and such in the game.
#3 Thought Jun 08, 2010 13:06:35	Perhaps you missed the part where this is the House Rules forum, Alitain? If the entire group wants to house rule out missing on dailies, why should that be something to gainsay? What would make this any less of a legit modification to the game than, say, critical misses? Anywho, Dasterin, the basic problem with making daily powers always hit is that they're powerful. Consider the long term effect of this. A daily might hit, it might miss. Thus, the damage it deals out is tempered over time. But if it always hits, then over time it is effectively dealing a great deal more damage, making encounters easier to dispatch. There are two easy solutions to this, however; the first is to have more enemies per encounter, and the second is to have tougher enemies. Both will be called for in certain situations. "Bosses", for example, will need to be tougher to withstand the onslaught of guaranteed hit dailies. Normal encounters could probably just squeak by with an extra baddy or two.
#4 urpriest Jun 08, 2010 15:55:41	Making dailies have a much easier time hitting would also cause a lot of trouble with controllers, whose stunning and dominating dailies would lock down important foes. I sympathize with your goal, but if you want to make dailies more dramatic, why not give them equally dramatic miss effects? Anime super powers do occasionally miss, mostly because the target did something equally awesome. If the fighter just missed with his 7[W] attack, have the enemy call out some crazy dodge maneuver. Another thing, though this will only work for AOE dailies, is to litter the field with minions. That way even if you miss major targets, you'll still feel like you did a lot.
#5 celloshane Jun 08, 2010 17:57:36	@ Alitain - Isn't that sort of attitude wholly contradictory to the point of the House Rules forum? @ Dasterin - Perhaps instead of making Dailies always hit, you could give each Daily a Miss line. That way if the player rolls badly, you still feel like the powerful attack accomplished something. Ok, I just realized this post basically says the same thing as urpriest. So, the only thing I have to add is maybe a missed attack could open up a terrain feature. I do like the idea of Action Points giving a bonus to the attack. +6 seems a bit excessive though, perhaps a +4 would be more reasonable.
#6 Crimson_Concerto Jun 08, 2010 18:19:32	Perhaps instead of making Dailies always hit, you could give each Daily a Miss line. That way if the player rolls badly, you still feel like the powerful attack accomplished something. Actually, dailies already work like this, which is why I'm not really understanding the problem here myself. There are only a small, small handful of daily powers that don't either have (A) a "Miss:" line so that they still accomplish something great even when they miss, (B) an "Effect:" line so that that accomplish something great regardless of whether they hit or miss, or (C) the "Reliable" keyword so that they aren't expended if they miss. The few, few daily powers that I know of that don't include one of these three do at least include multiple attack rolls, significantly boosting the probability that the power will hit. Now, one problem may be that your group is forgetting that an "Effect:" line does not require a hit in order to take effect. I know that many posters in the past have not realized this, and I know that many in my own group did not realize this at first, so once that becomes clear, it should alleviate a lot of the worry if that was indeed the problem to begin with.