Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nincubus Jan 01, 2010 13:49:53	Hi all! My players and I love the 4th edition, but one thing we noticed when we switched from 3.5 to 4th edition is that combat seemed to be slightly longer. My rogue player also complained that he no longer could surprise and eviscerate his foes on the first round of combat (since monsters have so much more hit points). As such I wanted a homebrew rule to make combats a bit shorter and increase the deadliness of the first round of combat, without a lot of extra bookkeeping or massive rule modifications. I pondered all of this for a while and here's what I came up with, please feel free to comment... DEADLY START RULE Any creature’s first attack (hit or miss) in an encounter deals double damage. If this attack applies a penalty or a bonus to one or many of its targets, this penalty or bonus is doubled for its normal duration or until the end of the attacker’s next turn, whichever comes first. If the attack provokes a condition, this condition becomes an increased condition as showed on the chart below, this increased condition lasts its normal duration or until the end of the attacker’s next turn, whichever comes first. If the attack deals ongoing damage, the ongoing damage is doubled on its first application. Increased Conditions Blinded becomes blinded and dazed Dazed becomes stunned Deafened becomes deafened and dazed Dominated remains dominated, but the target gets to roll twice and keep the best result for any attack he is commanded to make while dominated Dying is unaffected Helpless becomes unconscious Immobilized becomes restrained Marked doubles its circumstantial penalty to attack rolls Petrified is unaffected Prone becomes prone and dazed Restrained becomes restrained and dazed Slowed becomes immobilized Stunned becomes stunned and prone Surprised is unaffected Unconscious is unaffected Weakened becomes weakened and slowed This rule does have the side effect of rewarding big [W] damage powers instead of multiple attack rolls and damage rolls ones, but since the multiple damage rolls powers tend to be stronger it does seem to be an unforeseen slight balancing tweak (barbarians and rogues will usually be stronger than rangers and tempests on the first round). Another side effect is that it strongly incite players to use a daily or encounter power as their first attack in a battle, but once again I think it simply adds a layer of strategic complexity since it forces the players to either risk spending a powerful resource at the start of combat when they're unaware of the whole tactical situation (for example, they won't know if the enemies are strong enough to warrant a daily power) or to wait and learn about the whole tactical situation, but have that daily/encounter power be less effective... Finally, I chose to increase conditions and bonuses as well as damage in order to try and favor all roles instead of simply powering up the strikers. Stronger conditions on the first round help controllers, stronger bonuses and penalties help leaders and defenders and higher damage helps strikers.
#2 unclescrewtape Jan 06, 2010 16:15:01	I don't know if this is actually going to speed up combat that much. I would find being stunned on the first round of a combat with any degree of regularity really, really frustrating. I tend to stage down stun to dazed for any monsters that have it when I'm running -- stunned is just a really dull condition to have, especially stunned (save ends). I'd say if you want to shorten combats, cut monster HP in half and have them deal +[W] when bloodied. Adding additional conditions is just going to hose people needlessly.
#3 bone_naga Jan 06, 2010 19:11:14	I'm not sure this will have the effect you want. The list of increased conditions adds another table that you have to consult during combat, and PCs being stunned and dazed right off the bat will frustrate them and likely slow the game down. Even though the extra damage seems like it will speed up combat (and it likely will), it will encourage the entire party to nova during the opening round, which might cause them to waste powers on an easier fight than they expected, or (especially at low levels) have the whole party get reduced to at-wills sooner. Even though the fight might end up technically being faster, a fight with only at-wills will get dull quickly, as opposed to one with encounters and dailies scattered throughout it.
#4 nincubus Jan 07, 2010 9:01:47	I would find being stunned on the first round of a combat with any degree of regularity really, really frustrating. I tend to stage down stun to dazed for any monsters that have it when I'm running -- stunned is just a really dull condition to have, especially stunned (save ends). The stunned condition doesn't seem to come up very often at our table, perhaps it's because we mostly play in the heroic tier. When it does show up however I never received much in the way of complaints from my players. Keep in mind that with my rule as written a dazed (save ends) condition would only mean that the character is stunned for the first round ("this increased condition lasts its normal duration or until the end of the attacker’s next turn, whichever comes first"). We've already started playing with this rule and I've noticed that most of the time it incites players to use their big defensive powers on the first round to make sure most of the enemies powers actually miss and do not benefit from this boost whatsoever. I can see the risk you're pointing out though, and I thank you for this, I had not noticed how quickly fights could become locked down because of it. I'll keep an eye on daze-capable monsters to see how strong they've become on the first round of combat... I'm not sure this will have the effect you want. The list of increased conditions adds another table that you have to consult during combat, and PCs being stunned and dazed right off the bat will frustrate them and likely slow the game down. Even though the extra damage seems like it will speed up combat (and it likely will), it will encourage the entire party to nova during the opening round, which might cause them to waste powers on an easier fight than they expected, or (especially at low levels) have the whole party get reduced to at-wills sooner. Even though the fight might end up technically being faster, a fight with only at-wills will get dull quickly, as opposed to one with encounters and dailies scattered throughout it. I find the table pretty intuitive... Mind you, I'm sure being the one who designed it has something to do with it, but I find that I have a good grasp of the underlying logic, as such I rarely consult it in the midst of battle. The players tend to be the ones that are using it the most to pick the right power to improve. As for going nova on the first round. Keep in mind that it only affects the first attack, as such it can only benefit a single power at best and when it's a multiple attack rolls or damage rolls power it only benefits a fraction of it. In effect, players are only using one of their expendable powers (one expendable power out of nine for a 10th level character, is hardly that big a resource drain). It leaves plenty of other powers to spend for the rest of the fight. Once again, thanks for putting the dazed and stunned conditions under my radar, I'll keep an eye on it, and I'll come back to report on my conclusions once we've played with the rule a little more.