Designing Race (Also a general homebrew question) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Designing Race (Also a general homebrew question)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
darkdragoon25
Nov 04, 2010 19:46:59 I'm designing a human offshoot race for my 3.5 campaign and I am finding level adjustment a frustrating system.

Right now I am thinking of a race that has all of the human statistics and the following in addition
-4 strength, -4 constitution, +4 Intelligence
These humans are magically gifted and begin level 1 with spells as a level 1 Sorcerer. For every two levels above level 1 they gain spells and casting level equivalent to gaining another level Sorcerer. To use spells requiring a material component or focus the race pays an amount of experience equal to the cost in GP of the component in experience. If no cost is listed the race pays 1 experience.
Even if this race takes levels as Sorcerer their caster level and spells known as a Sorcerer can never exceed thier total character levels. They gain no other benefits of a Sorcerer beyond spells.
Favored class: Wizard

Okay, so this race is very problematic for me as a DM and user of the 3.5 system. I could apply a level adjustment to the race to keep it balanced with the others, but that presents two problems.
1. I really dislike how LA leads to characters being out of step with each other in development. It means that one of these guys who is a Wizard would be level 1 with 4ish hp while the rest of the party is level 3.
2. The racial benefit scales so a static LA that compensates for for the benefit would inevitably be too harsh at lower levels and to lax at higher levels.

Alternatively, I could increase the LA as the racial features begin to manifest (say by increasing LA every four levels), but I hate the idea of telling a player that they just don't level every four levels despite having earned enough experience.

My next alternative is to just give the race a static 5 or 10% experience penalty while allowing them to level normally. The fear there is that at higher levels, especially with them paying experience to cast spells, it will just result in the same result as a LA.

So I guess my recourse, and what I think I need help with, is creating an alternative system that doesn't grossly hinder the development of this race through its class levels. Or to simply make this race work out to neutral to the other starting races. Can anybody offer any help, guidance or suggestions on this?

Also, about homebrewing. Has any group that you were a part of agree to a homebrew that you actively tweaked over the course of the campaign to function better? How did that work out? Is it worth trying to do that with my players on this homebrewed race?

Thanks for your responses!
#2
Alas
Nov 05, 2010 10:14:12
Last things first: I have had a positive experience collaborating with players and tweaking homebrew elements over the course of a campaign. If an obvious problem cropped up during the game, we'd adjudicate it on the fly and move on; we'd then consider the long term solution *between* sessions (so as not to take up everybody's time). I believe the key is being up front about the rule/race being experimental, and giving the other players a stake in the testing process.

Now then, as for the race you're proposing...

I'll confess up front that I'm not a fan of Level Adjustments at all; nor do I think lopsided ability penalties, experience penalties, and spending XP to cast spells are the sort of mechanics that encourage players to pick a race. It sounds like what you want is a "magically gifted" race (can we get a name?), and you want to represent that with bonus spells at first level, and an increase in spellpower as the character levels up. Is this correct?

If you want to avoid LA, consider looking for where you can swap out human racial features (and, later, class features) to plug in this race's magical talent. For example:

1) Taking the human as a base (since you said this is a human off-shoot), drop the bonus feat and bonus skill points. In their place, add a first level spell that they can cast as a sorcerer of the same level, possibly with the option to switch up to a higher level spell at 10th level. (See the 3.5 version of dragonborn and raptorans for good examples of racial features that scale up over a long period.)

2) Create racial feats that let the character pick up new spells at appropriate levels.

3) Have a look at the racial exemplar classes that pop up in Unearthed Arcana, or the racial class variants in the various Races of... books. You could showcase this race's magic talent by giving them a unique spin on how the wizard or sorcerer class works for them, or by showing how they bring magic to a non-arcane class.

These are general sort of suggestions, but if you can give more explicit detail on what you want to see as an end result, the boards can offer more concrete advice on how to get there.

Cheers!
#3
Fireclave
Nov 05, 2010 13:22:28 I agree with Alas. Wonky, lop-sided, overly specialized for its favored class racial adjustments do not make for a balanced race. And the spellcasting ability you are proposing is too against the grain to be worth the effort to balance against normal races.

First I suggest reigning in the ability bonuses. +2 Int, -2 Str or Con. I'd go with con since since wizards care none at all for str, so a penalty to strength wouldn't even be a penalty to them.

As for implementing the natural spell-casting, consider this idea:

Drop the skill points and bonus feat. In exchange, I grant the race spell-like abilities. At creation, they get a 1/day spell-like ability chosen from the wizard/sorcerer spell list up to a spell level equal to 1/3 their HD (minimum 1st level spell). At every even level, they can swap their spell-like ability for a different one. A floating spell-like ability up to 6th level is very good as far as racial abilities go.

Then offer a 4-feat deep chain to expand that ability. Each feat (available a 5th level and every five levels there after) would grant either a new spell-like ability or an additional use of an existing spell-like ability. And finally, make the feats Wizard bonus feat options, so the player using the race's favored class has the choice of expanding the spellcasting flexibility or gaining new spellcasting beyond their basic ability - Effectively allowing them to take a combination of the Extra Spell and Extra Slot feats.

#4
darkdragoon25
Nov 05, 2010 13:46:49 First things first. Thank you so much Allas. Even though you were a bit vague that was an incredibly useful response. I have a bunch more to think about and work on now. I was concerned that I would have to settle for something that was less than ideal for me and the player involved.

Based on the details of the world I would probably call them the Tallaris.

Let me give you the background for this race of humans. Basically, they were a strange form of humans that invaded the human population where the campaign took place. They were part of a larger empire and after 4 or 5 generations of ruling the continent the campaign takes place on the empire fell apart. The foreigners either interbred with locals (those people may just get a magical bonus at 1st level), fled to their homeland or walled themselves up in cities. The Tellaris are of the last category and several hundred years later they are the only surviving city of these "pure-blooded" humans. They are naturally gifted in magical abilities. During all of their time walled up in cities they have focused on cultivating magic to the point of perfection. For that reason a large number of the population focuses on learning magic. Further, due to their incredible mastery of magic, the entire population is entirely unaccumstomed to using magic at all from their birth and over the course of their lives.

Now with that background given the essential qualties that are common these humans are an innate ability to cast spontaneously, a naturally gifted intelligence, an affinity towards being a wizard and natural physical weakness.

1. I am planning on giving them casting like a first level sorcerer at first level. Or something similar to it. The ideal is that even a 1st level commoner has a small selection of utilitarian spells that they would use on a daily basis.

2. I suppose I can do racial feats. The one thing about using racial feats is that I am afraid of is that racial feats still presents the problem of forcing the character to either advance their race or advance their class. Although allowing them to take a couple of feats to maximize their racial abilities might be good.

Hmmm.... I am going to need think some more. The biggest issue I have is that I would like this race to be able to advance with stunted Sorcerer-esque spellcasting no matter what career path they take, but a solution which would slow down their ability to advance in wizard casting doesn't make sense with their backstory. So maybe they take a few levels of a racial class which allows them to advance in certain class features of whatever class they are going to take afterwards? It isn't a big issue for my player since she will be starting at level 3 and so will either be at the end of the racial class or beginning of her PHB class.
#5
Alas
Nov 05, 2010 14:16:17 "Even though you were a bit vague that was an incredibly useful response."

Well... didn't want to bore you with the details, did I? ;) If you wanna know, the homebrew experiments were a clone PC "race" in Shadowrun, and a bunch of dragon-based magic items in 3.5 ed Eberron. The clone was fun to tweak because by arrangement with the player, we killed off the clone PC every session and brought the "new model" in the next week. Tweaking the magic items was a bit more straightforward, and usually involved adjusting their numbers after seeing them in action.

I can understand your hesitancy towards racial feats, and how they turn it into "either/or" competition with class features. Unfortunately, if you want to avoid LA altogether, that's the sort of decision you have to consider. Race mechanics occupy a relatively small part of a character's composition (compared to 4th edition, anyway), so if you want to give the Tallaris' "Tallarish-ness" a bigger role, the class is going to have to cede some space.

Hmm. The bonus "innate spellcasting" is less of a problem for the NPC commoners, because you can just grant the spells to them and be done with it. (Even in 3.5, I'm a fan of NPCs operating by different rules than the PCs. It's not transparent, but it's a hell of a lot less work.)

Have you seen the rules for exotic bloodlines in 3.5 Unearthed Arcana? It's not exactly LA or a different race, but it's a potential model for granting thematic perks and powers over several levels (with a slight cost).

#6
darkdragoon25
Nov 05, 2010 20:40:22 I'm meeting with my pc right now so she can work on her character. What I decided for the character is as followed.

-2 strength, -2 constitution, +2 intelligence

The character class has two levels. The first grants her spells as a level 1 Sorcerer and the second allows her to increase that casting by 1 sorcerer level every three levels after 1. The levels of her class also grant her bonuses as a Sorcerer. In her case, (I would deal with it on a case-by case basis) she also gains casting equivalent to a Wizard of her level.

She is starting out now as a level 1 Wizard and level 2 of the Tellaris. So her casting is equivalent to a Wizard of level 3, a Sorcerer of level 1 and she has stats equivalent to a level 3 Wizard. Although her Familiar and Wizard bonus feat progression are only equal to that of a level 1 Wizard.

Here are my ideas for bonus feats.
Taellaris Education (Must take at level 1)
Gain a + 2 Intelligence modifier and a bonus + 2 on all Knowledge Skills

I am also considering a feat to increase their spellcasting to 1 level of Sorcerer spells for every 2HD instead of 3 that it is now. Another idea for something gained by a feat is a + 2 to Charisma. Finally, another bonus gained by a feat would allow you to blend your spontaneously casted spells with your your prepared spells if you also have levels in a spellcasting class.

That is what I have so far. I am planning to use the heritage feats in the Races of the Dragon book for ideas.
#7
Fireclave
Nov 06, 2010 6:12:18
The character class has two levels. The first grants her spells as a level 1 Sorcerer and the second allows her to increase that casting by 1 sorcerer level every three levels after 1. The levels of her class also grant her bonuses as a Sorcerer. In her case, (I would deal with it on a case-by case basis) she also gains casting equivalent to a Wizard of her level.

She is starting out now as a level 1 Wizard and level 2 of the Tellaris. So her casting is equivalent to a Wizard of level 3, a Sorcerer of level 1 and she has stats equivalent to a level 3 Wizard. Although her Familiar and Wizard bonus feat progression are only equal to that of a level 1 Wizard.

Still far too much. If you're trying to make this race mechanically balanced, there's simply no way you're going to be able to grant full progression with one class and gestalt-like spell progression in a second class without tacking on some LA or some similar penalty. Which is why I suggested a limited pool of spell-like abilities earlier.

Your character class doesn't even stunt their wizard casting at all - Which would help, but not enough to justify the idea as written.

Here are my ideas for bonus feats.
Taellaris Education (Must take at level 1)
Gain a + 2 Intelligence modifier and a bonus + 2 on all Knowledge Skills

Too powerful. Feats normally do not grant bonuses to ability scores until you get into epic, and only at +1 per feat. This racial feat is the eqivalent of Great Intelligence + Great Intelligence + Skill Focus.

I am also considering a feat to increase their spellcasting to 1 level of Sorcerer spells for every 2HD instead of 3 that it is now. Another idea for something gained by a feat is a + 2 to Charisma.

See above comments.

Finally, another bonus gained by a feat would allow you to blend your spontaneously casted spells with your your prepared spells if you also have levels in a spellcasting class.

This could be an interesting idea depending on how you implement it. But its also very likely to be broken as well if not handled properly. Wizards and sorcerer are already broke-tastic without any help.

If I may offer a completely different solution, have you heard of the Erudite class? It seems to very very close to what you are trying to do. Erudites are int-based and manifest spotanenously. But similarly to how wizards can add additional spells to their books, Erudites can learn additional powers from outside sources. The biggest limiting factor, how, is that they can only manifest a certain new of unique powers per day. But all in all, they basically function like a int-based spontaneous wizard class...with mind bullets. And if knowledge of arcane spells is a must, there's also the additional Convert Spell To Power varient.
#8
Alas
Nov 06, 2010 6:57:03 To be fair, the Tallaris can be unfair as long as the rest of the players don't mind that one PC has these advantages. Some people genuinely don't care about character parity. (But then, many do.)
#9
catskilleagle
Nov 06, 2010 10:27:33 A simpler solution might be to approach it using racial paragon levels from Unearthed Arcana. If you grant sorcerer casting, you're pretty much granting all a level of sorcerer brings to the table. Perhaps you create the base race, on balance with other races, and those who want to can get racial paragon levels at the speed they want.

Your NPCs will all have sorcerous casing (picture a village full of commoner/sorcerer multiclasses), and your PCs can get all the flavor they want-no more, no less.

You'd have to do something to address how multiclassing dings casters, though....

Just my two cents.
#10
darkdragoon25
Nov 06, 2010 17:49:39 I was thinking about some of the suggestions given for this race and I now realize that the feat is a bit too good.

Given the suggestions here I have a few ideas on how to modify the race further to balance it. First I can make the levels 4, 7, 10 etc. that grant a level of Sorcerer casting be racial paragon levels that allow Wizard casting to advance. That way they don't fully advance as Wizards able to take bonus feats and enhance familiars. Another modification would be a restriction to the schools they can take spells from with their Sorcerer casting.

I suppose at the end of the day I know that my homebrewed race will be a bit better than other races overall because they will have a bit more flexibility. I just don't want them to be more powerful than other races.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darkdragoon25 Nov 04, 2010 19:46:59	I'm designing a human offshoot race for my 3.5 campaign and I am finding level adjustment a frustrating system. Right now I am thinking of a race that has all of the human statistics and the following in addition -4 strength, -4 constitution, +4 Intelligence These humans are magically gifted and begin level 1 with spells as a level 1 Sorcerer. For every two levels above level 1 they gain spells and casting level equivalent to gaining another level Sorcerer. To use spells requiring a material component or focus the race pays an amount of experience equal to the cost in GP of the component in experience. If no cost is listed the race pays 1 experience. Even if this race takes levels as Sorcerer their caster level and spells known as a Sorcerer can never exceed thier total character levels. They gain no other benefits of a Sorcerer beyond spells. Favored class: Wizard Okay, so this race is very problematic for me as a DM and user of the 3.5 system. I could apply a level adjustment to the race to keep it balanced with the others, but that presents two problems. 1. I really dislike how LA leads to characters being out of step with each other in development. It means that one of these guys who is a Wizard would be level 1 with 4ish hp while the rest of the party is level 3. 2. The racial benefit scales so a static LA that compensates for for the benefit would inevitably be too harsh at lower levels and to lax at higher levels. Alternatively, I could increase the LA as the racial features begin to manifest (say by increasing LA every four levels), but I hate the idea of telling a player that they just don't level every four levels despite having earned enough experience. My next alternative is to just give the race a static 5 or 10% experience penalty while allowing them to level normally. The fear there is that at higher levels, especially with them paying experience to cast spells, it will just result in the same result as a LA. So I guess my recourse, and what I think I need help with, is creating an alternative system that doesn't grossly hinder the development of this race through its class levels. Or to simply make this race work out to neutral to the other starting races. Can anybody offer any help, guidance or suggestions on this? Also, about homebrewing. Has any group that you were a part of agree to a homebrew that you actively tweaked over the course of the campaign to function better? How did that work out? Is it worth trying to do that with my players on this homebrewed race? Thanks for your responses!
#2 Alas Nov 05, 2010 10:14:12	Last things first: I have had a positive experience collaborating with players and tweaking homebrew elements over the course of a campaign. If an obvious problem cropped up during the game, we'd adjudicate it on the fly and move on; we'd then consider the long term solution between sessions (so as not to take up everybody's time). I believe the key is being up front about the rule/race being experimental, and giving the other players a stake in the testing process. Now then, as for the race you're proposing... I'll confess up front that I'm not a fan of Level Adjustments at all; nor do I think lopsided ability penalties, experience penalties, and spending XP to cast spells are the sort of mechanics that encourage players to pick a race. It sounds like what you want is a "magically gifted" race (can we get a name?), and you want to represent that with bonus spells at first level, and an increase in spellpower as the character levels up. Is this correct? If you want to avoid LA, consider looking for where you can swap out human racial features (and, later, class features) to plug in this race's magical talent. For example: 1) Taking the human as a base (since you said this is a human off-shoot), drop the bonus feat and bonus skill points. In their place, add a first level spell that they can cast as a sorcerer of the same level, possibly with the option to switch up to a higher level spell at 10th level. (See the 3.5 version of dragonborn and raptorans for good examples of racial features that scale up over a long period.) 2) Create racial feats that let the character pick up new spells at appropriate levels. 3) Have a look at the racial exemplar classes that pop up in Unearthed Arcana, or the racial class variants in the various Races of... books. You could showcase this race's magic talent by giving them a unique spin on how the wizard or sorcerer class works for them, or by showing how they bring magic to a non-arcane class. These are general sort of suggestions, but if you can give more explicit detail on what you want to see as an end result, the boards can offer more concrete advice on how to get there. Cheers!
#3 Fireclave Nov 05, 2010 13:22:28	I agree with Alas. Wonky, lop-sided, overly specialized for its favored class racial adjustments do not make for a balanced race. And the spellcasting ability you are proposing is too against the grain to be worth the effort to balance against normal races. First I suggest reigning in the ability bonuses. +2 Int, -2 Str or Con. I'd go with con since since wizards care none at all for str, so a penalty to strength wouldn't even be a penalty to them. As for implementing the natural spell-casting, consider this idea: Drop the skill points and bonus feat. In exchange, I grant the race spell-like abilities. At creation, they get a 1/day spell-like ability chosen from the wizard/sorcerer spell list up to a spell level equal to 1/3 their HD (minimum 1st level spell). At every even level, they can swap their spell-like ability for a different one. A floating spell-like ability up to 6th level is very good as far as racial abilities go. Then offer a 4-feat deep chain to expand that ability. Each feat (available a 5th level and every five levels there after) would grant either a new spell-like ability or an additional use of an existing spell-like ability. And finally, make the feats Wizard bonus feat options, so the player using the race's favored class has the choice of expanding the spellcasting flexibility or gaining new spellcasting beyond their basic ability - Effectively allowing them to take a combination of the Extra Spell and Extra Slot feats.
#4 darkdragoon25 Nov 05, 2010 13:46:49	First things first. Thank you so much Allas. Even though you were a bit vague that was an incredibly useful response. I have a bunch more to think about and work on now. I was concerned that I would have to settle for something that was less than ideal for me and the player involved. Based on the details of the world I would probably call them the Tallaris. Let me give you the background for this race of humans. Basically, they were a strange form of humans that invaded the human population where the campaign took place. They were part of a larger empire and after 4 or 5 generations of ruling the continent the campaign takes place on the empire fell apart. The foreigners either interbred with locals (those people may just get a magical bonus at 1st level), fled to their homeland or walled themselves up in cities. The Tellaris are of the last category and several hundred years later they are the only surviving city of these "pure-blooded" humans. They are naturally gifted in magical abilities. During all of their time walled up in cities they have focused on cultivating magic to the point of perfection. For that reason a large number of the population focuses on learning magic. Further, due to their incredible mastery of magic, the entire population is entirely unaccumstomed to using magic at all from their birth and over the course of their lives. Now with that background given the essential qualties that are common these humans are an innate ability to cast spontaneously, a naturally gifted intelligence, an affinity towards being a wizard and natural physical weakness. 1. I am planning on giving them casting like a first level sorcerer at first level. Or something similar to it. The ideal is that even a 1st level commoner has a small selection of utilitarian spells that they would use on a daily basis. 2. I suppose I can do racial feats. The one thing about using racial feats is that I am afraid of is that racial feats still presents the problem of forcing the character to either advance their race or advance their class. Although allowing them to take a couple of feats to maximize their racial abilities might be good. Hmmm.... I am going to need think some more. The biggest issue I have is that I would like this race to be able to advance with stunted Sorcerer-esque spellcasting no matter what career path they take, but a solution which would slow down their ability to advance in wizard casting doesn't make sense with their backstory. So maybe they take a few levels of a racial class which allows them to advance in certain class features of whatever class they are going to take afterwards? It isn't a big issue for my player since she will be starting at level 3 and so will either be at the end of the racial class or beginning of her PHB class.
#5 Alas Nov 05, 2010 14:16:17	"Even though you were a bit vague that was an incredibly useful response." Well... didn't want to bore you with the details, did I? ;) If you wanna know, the homebrew experiments were a clone PC "race" in Shadowrun, and a bunch of dragon-based magic items in 3.5 ed Eberron. The clone was fun to tweak because by arrangement with the player, we killed off the clone PC every session and brought the "new model" in the next week. Tweaking the magic items was a bit more straightforward, and usually involved adjusting their numbers after seeing them in action. I can understand your hesitancy towards racial feats, and how they turn it into "either/or" competition with class features. Unfortunately, if you want to avoid LA altogether, that's the sort of decision you have to consider. Race mechanics occupy a relatively small part of a character's composition (compared to 4th edition, anyway), so if you want to give the Tallaris' "Tallarish-ness" a bigger role, the class is going to have to cede some space. Hmm. The bonus "innate spellcasting" is less of a problem for the NPC commoners, because you can just grant the spells to them and be done with it. (Even in 3.5, I'm a fan of NPCs operating by different rules than the PCs. It's not transparent, but it's a hell of a lot less work.) Have you seen the rules for exotic bloodlines in 3.5 Unearthed Arcana? It's not exactly LA or a different race, but it's a potential model for granting thematic perks and powers over several levels (with a slight cost).
#6 darkdragoon25 Nov 05, 2010 20:40:22	I'm meeting with my pc right now so she can work on her character. What I decided for the character is as followed. -2 strength, -2 constitution, +2 intelligence The character class has two levels. The first grants her spells as a level 1 Sorcerer and the second allows her to increase that casting by 1 sorcerer level every three levels after 1. The levels of her class also grant her bonuses as a Sorcerer. In her case, (I would deal with it on a case-by case basis) she also gains casting equivalent to a Wizard of her level. She is starting out now as a level 1 Wizard and level 2 of the Tellaris. So her casting is equivalent to a Wizard of level 3, a Sorcerer of level 1 and she has stats equivalent to a level 3 Wizard. Although her Familiar and Wizard bonus feat progression are only equal to that of a level 1 Wizard. Here are my ideas for bonus feats. Taellaris Education (Must take at level 1) Gain a + 2 Intelligence modifier and a bonus + 2 on all Knowledge Skills I am also considering a feat to increase their spellcasting to 1 level of Sorcerer spells for every 2HD instead of 3 that it is now. Another idea for something gained by a feat is a + 2 to Charisma. Finally, another bonus gained by a feat would allow you to blend your spontaneously casted spells with your your prepared spells if you also have levels in a spellcasting class. That is what I have so far. I am planning to use the heritage feats in the Races of the Dragon book for ideas.
#7 Fireclave Nov 06, 2010 6:12:18	The character class has two levels. The first grants her spells as a level 1 Sorcerer and the second allows her to increase that casting by 1 sorcerer level every three levels after 1. The levels of her class also grant her bonuses as a Sorcerer. In her case, (I would deal with it on a case-by case basis) she also gains casting equivalent to a Wizard of her level. She is starting out now as a level 1 Wizard and level 2 of the Tellaris. So her casting is equivalent to a Wizard of level 3, a Sorcerer of level 1 and she has stats equivalent to a level 3 Wizard. Although her Familiar and Wizard bonus feat progression are only equal to that of a level 1 Wizard. Still far too much. If you're trying to make this race mechanically balanced, there's simply no way you're going to be able to grant full progression with one class and gestalt-like spell progression in a second class without tacking on some LA or some similar penalty. Which is why I suggested a limited pool of spell-like abilities earlier. Your character class doesn't even stunt their wizard casting at all - Which would help, but not enough to justify the idea as written. Here are my ideas for bonus feats. Taellaris Education (Must take at level 1) Gain a + 2 Intelligence modifier and a bonus + 2 on all Knowledge Skills Too powerful. Feats normally do not grant bonuses to ability scores until you get into epic, and only at +1 per feat. This racial feat is the eqivalent of Great Intelligence + Great Intelligence + Skill Focus. I am also considering a feat to increase their spellcasting to 1 level of Sorcerer spells for every 2HD instead of 3 that it is now. Another idea for something gained by a feat is a + 2 to Charisma. See above comments. Finally, another bonus gained by a feat would allow you to blend your spontaneously casted spells with your your prepared spells if you also have levels in a spellcasting class. This could be an interesting idea depending on how you implement it. But its also very likely to be broken as well if not handled properly. Wizards and sorcerer are already broke-tastic without any help. If I may offer a completely different solution, have you heard of the Erudite class? It seems to very very close to what you are trying to do. Erudites are int-based and manifest spotanenously. But similarly to how wizards can add additional spells to their books, Erudites can learn additional powers from outside sources. The biggest limiting factor, how, is that they can only manifest a certain new of unique powers per day. But all in all, they basically function like a int-based spontaneous wizard class...with mind bullets. And if knowledge of arcane spells is a must, there's also the additional Convert Spell To Power varient.
#8 Alas Nov 06, 2010 6:57:03	To be fair, the Tallaris can be unfair as long as the rest of the players don't mind that one PC has these advantages. Some people genuinely don't care about character parity. (But then, many do.)
#9 catskilleagle Nov 06, 2010 10:27:33	A simpler solution might be to approach it using racial paragon levels from Unearthed Arcana. If you grant sorcerer casting, you're pretty much granting all a level of sorcerer brings to the table. Perhaps you create the base race, on balance with other races, and those who want to can get racial paragon levels at the speed they want. Your NPCs will all have sorcerous casing (picture a village full of commoner/sorcerer multiclasses), and your PCs can get all the flavor they want-no more, no less. You'd have to do something to address how multiclassing dings casters, though.... Just my two cents.
#10 darkdragoon25 Nov 06, 2010 17:49:39	I was thinking about some of the suggestions given for this race and I now realize that the feat is a bit too good. Given the suggestions here I have a few ideas on how to modify the race further to balance it. First I can make the levels 4, 7, 10 etc. that grant a level of Sorcerer casting be racial paragon levels that allow Wizard casting to advance. That way they don't fully advance as Wizards able to take bonus feats and enhance familiars. Another modification would be a restriction to the schools they can take spells from with their Sorcerer casting. I suppose at the end of the day I know that my homebrewed race will be a bit better than other races overall because they will have a bit more flexibility. I just don't want them to be more powerful than other races.