detect magic (trained only) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

detect magic (trained only)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
MaximumHavoc
Mar 22, 2009 23:08:15 i suggest a change to the following use of the arcana skill:

sense the presence of magic

(i) change this from "1 minute" to the following entry:

No action required—either you notice something or you don’t. Your DM usually uses your passive Arcana check result. If you want to use the skill actively, you need to take a standard action.
#2
Brian_Bors
Mar 26, 2009 6:28:34 This puts some strain on the DM (he/she has to remember to roll every time a magic item or effect is in the range, 5+level and for every char that has arcana trained) but apart from that I really like this.

Although you do probably want to create some permanent "warding" ritual like "silence" (PHB page. 312) so you can hide magic items in secret rooms and stuff. It has little use building a hidden vault in your office if all your magical items in their can be felt by any passing person that is trained in arcana.
#3
MaximumHavoc
Mar 26, 2009 14:49:11
This puts some strain on the DM (he/she has to remember to roll every time a magic item or effect is in the range, 5+level and for every char that has arcana trained) but apart from that I really like this.

Although you do probably want to create some permanent "warding" ritual like "silence" (PHB page. 312) so you can hide magic items in secret rooms and stuff. It has little use building a hidden vault in your office if all your magical items in their can be felt by any passing person that is trained in arcana.

well, using the published adventures as an indicator, i do not think that the burden on the dm arises very often; certainly not any more often than a passive perception check. remember, dmg guidelines (p126) suggest a total of 4 new magic items per level for the entire party.

i like your idea for a ritual against detecting magic. as you have indicated, someone attempting to detect magic items must come within the appropriate range to do so; so, from a role play perspective, it isn't too hard to keep magic items hidden without the assistance of warding magic. and, it is balanced against the coolness factor of being able to detect magic passively.

again, your ritual idea is great.
#4
Brian_Bors
Mar 31, 2009 7:52:05
well, using the published adventures as an indicator, i do not think that the burden on the dm arises very often; certainly not any more often than a passive perception check. remember, dmg guidelines (p126) suggest a total of 4 new magic items per level for the entire party.

Your forgetting about the magic potions, any and all magic "things" the monsters use like aura's, magical constructs (like warforged), portals, rituals, the magic items your NPC's are carrying, and other magical phenomena. In theory you have to check for them every time an enemy magic user casts a spell (although they will probably see the magic, but do roll for them if it happens in the next room).

"You think they haven't heard you as you put your ear against the door. [roll] But after you feel your ear tingling from the magical discharge in the next room you realize that yes, they did hear you and are now preparing themselves with magic for the battle to come."

It will certainly not be more often than a passive perception check. But the D&D worlds I design are always filled with magic to sniff.

To give an example:
The local blacksmith has a permanent eye of alarm cast on his shop by the local level 3 mage in town (it make a tingling noise when a new costumer comes in, but howls an alarm when a new "costumer" comes in after closing time)... do you roll for that every time they enter/pass the shop until they notice? (Your rouge might be very interested in that particular one, because it means that there is a jeweled eye worth 100 gp hidden there somewhere.)
#5
MaximumHavoc
Apr 02, 2009 8:28:58
Your forgetting about the magic potions, any and all magic "things" the monsters use like aura's, magical constructs (like warforged), portals, rituals, the magic items your NPC's are carrying, and other magical phenomena. In theory you have to check for them every time an enemy magic user casts a spell (although they will probably see the magic, but do roll for them if it happens in the next room).

at least, with respect to magic that the arcana skill user has already encountered, he/she can choose to ignore those auras. it is addressed in the skill itself:
Area of Detection: You can detect magic within a number of squares equal to 5 + your level in every direction, and you can ignore any sources of magical energy you’re already aware of. Ignore all barriers; you can detect magic through walls, doors, and such.

i would not apply this detection to magical constructs, magical beasts or magical anything appearing--or that could appear--in a monster manual:
magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon

some might argue differently, but i think that is beyond the intent of the skill as it is written.

regarding any other "legitimate" magic sources, the skill user would want to detect anything that he/she could detect. on a per encounter basis, it really is not so much for a dm to deal with.
"You think they haven't heard you as you put your ear against the door. [roll] But after you feel your ear tingling from the magical discharge in the next room you realize that yes, they did hear you and are now preparing themselves with magic for the battle to come."

personally. i find this suweet.
It will certainly not be more often than a passive perception check. But the D&D worlds I design are always filled with magic to sniff.

it sounds like a great place to make use of the arcana skill in a way that the players will enjoy. it is a more dynamic and useful way of applying the skill. it moves arcana towards the top of the heap, alongside perception, stealth and intuition. works for me.
To give an example:
The local blacksmith has a permanent eye of alarm cast on his shop by the local level 3 mage in town (it make a tingling noise when a new costumer comes in, but howls an alarm when a new "costumer" comes in after closing time)... do you roll for that every time they enter/pass the shop until they notice? (Your rouge might be very interested in that particular one, because it means that there is a jeweled eye worth 100 gp hidden there somewhere.)

the short answer is yes . . .
Failure: Either you detected nothing or there was nothing in range to detect. You can’t try again in this area until after an extended rest.

think of it this way, just as the rogue becomes very familiar with his/her customary surroundings, so too would an arcana skill user become more and more familiar with magical "fixtures" in places that he/she frequents.
#6
Brian_Bors
Apr 02, 2009 10:20:24 I have clearly not been reading that skill well enough before replying. :embarrass

I think you make a very convincing argument and are now thinking of implementing this myself. Thank you.
#7
MaximumHavoc
Apr 02, 2009 14:24:10
I think you make a very convincing argument and are now thinking of implementing this myself. Thank you.

thanks :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 MaximumHavoc Mar 22, 2009 23:08:15	i suggest a change to the following use of the arcana skill: sense the presence of magic (i) change this from "1 minute" to the following entry: No action required—either you notice something or you don’t. Your DM usually uses your passive Arcana check result. If you want to use the skill actively, you need to take a standard action.
#2 Brian_Bors Mar 26, 2009 6:28:34	This puts some strain on the DM (he/she has to remember to roll every time a magic item or effect is in the range, 5+level and for every char that has arcana trained) but apart from that I really like this. Although you do probably want to create some permanent "warding" ritual like "silence" (PHB page. 312) so you can hide magic items in secret rooms and stuff. It has little use building a hidden vault in your office if all your magical items in their can be felt by any passing person that is trained in arcana.
#3 MaximumHavoc Mar 26, 2009 14:49:11	This puts some strain on the DM (he/she has to remember to roll every time a magic item or effect is in the range, 5+level and for every char that has arcana trained) but apart from that I really like this. Although you do probably want to create some permanent "warding" ritual like "silence" (PHB page. 312) so you can hide magic items in secret rooms and stuff. It has little use building a hidden vault in your office if all your magical items in their can be felt by any passing person that is trained in arcana. well, using the published adventures as an indicator, i do not think that the burden on the dm arises very often; certainly not any more often than a passive perception check. remember, dmg guidelines (p126) suggest a total of 4 new magic items per level for the entire party. i like your idea for a ritual against detecting magic. as you have indicated, someone attempting to detect magic items must come within the appropriate range to do so; so, from a role play perspective, it isn't too hard to keep magic items hidden without the assistance of warding magic. and, it is balanced against the coolness factor of being able to detect magic passively. again, your ritual idea is great.
#4 Brian_Bors Mar 31, 2009 7:52:05	well, using the published adventures as an indicator, i do not think that the burden on the dm arises very often; certainly not any more often than a passive perception check. remember, dmg guidelines (p126) suggest a total of 4 new magic items per level for the entire party. Your forgetting about the magic potions, any and all magic "things" the monsters use like aura's, magical constructs (like warforged), portals, rituals, the magic items your NPC's are carrying, and other magical phenomena. In theory you have to check for them every time an enemy magic user casts a spell (although they will probably see the magic, but do roll for them if it happens in the next room). "You think they haven't heard you as you put your ear against the door. [roll] But after you feel your ear tingling from the magical discharge in the next room you realize that yes, they did hear you and are now preparing themselves with magic for the battle to come." It will certainly not be more often than a passive perception check. But the D&D worlds I design are always filled with magic to sniff. To give an example: The local blacksmith has a permanent eye of alarm cast on his shop by the local level 3 mage in town (it make a tingling noise when a new costumer comes in, but howls an alarm when a new "costumer" comes in after closing time)... do you roll for that every time they enter/pass the shop until they notice? (Your rouge might be very interested in that particular one, because it means that there is a jeweled eye worth 100 gp hidden there somewhere.)
#5 MaximumHavoc Apr 02, 2009 8:28:58	Your forgetting about the magic potions, any and all magic "things" the monsters use like aura's, magical constructs (like warforged), portals, rituals, the magic items your NPC's are carrying, and other magical phenomena. In theory you have to check for them every time an enemy magic user casts a spell (although they will probably see the magic, but do roll for them if it happens in the next room). at least, with respect to magic that the arcana skill user has already encountered, he/she can choose to ignore those auras. it is addressed in the skill itself: Area of Detection: You can detect magic within a number of squares equal to 5 + your level in every direction, and you can ignore any sources of magical energy you’re already aware of. Ignore all barriers; you can detect magic through walls, doors, and such. i would not apply this detection to magical constructs, magical beasts or magical anything appearing--or that could appear--in a monster manual: magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon some might argue differently, but i think that is beyond the intent of the skill as it is written. regarding any other "legitimate" magic sources, the skill user would want to detect anything that he/she could detect. on a per encounter basis, it really is not so much for a dm to deal with. "You think they haven't heard you as you put your ear against the door. [roll] But after you feel your ear tingling from the magical discharge in the next room you realize that yes, they did hear you and are now preparing themselves with magic for the battle to come." personally. i find this suweet. It will certainly not be more often than a passive perception check. But the D&D worlds I design are always filled with magic to sniff. it sounds like a great place to make use of the arcana skill in a way that the players will enjoy. it is a more dynamic and useful way of applying the skill. it moves arcana towards the top of the heap, alongside perception, stealth and intuition. works for me. To give an example: The local blacksmith has a permanent eye of alarm cast on his shop by the local level 3 mage in town (it make a tingling noise when a new costumer comes in, but howls an alarm when a new "costumer" comes in after closing time)... do you roll for that every time they enter/pass the shop until they notice? (Your rouge might be very interested in that particular one, because it means that there is a jeweled eye worth 100 gp hidden there somewhere.) the short answer is yes . . . Failure: Either you detected nothing or there was nothing in range to detect. You can’t try again in this area until after an extended rest. think of it this way, just as the rogue becomes very familiar with his/her customary surroundings, so too would an arcana skill user become more and more familiar with magical "fixtures" in places that he/she frequents.
#6 Brian_Bors Apr 02, 2009 10:20:24	I have clearly not been reading that skill well enough before replying. :embarrass I think you make a very convincing argument and are now thinking of implementing this myself. Thank you.
#7 MaximumHavoc Apr 02, 2009 14:24:10	I think you make a very convincing argument and are now thinking of implementing this myself. Thank you. thanks :D