Ding during minion rush - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ding during minion rush

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
fivepopes
Dec 18, 2008 4:29:09 I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for?
#2
Delazar78
Dec 18, 2008 4:46:19 I never, in 15 years of DMing, have allowed players to level up DURING a combat encounter. I think every gaming book i read suggests to do it after a session, or when the WHOLE scenario is completed.

It's just time consuming, confusing, interrupts game, a mess for the DM, for fellow players, etc.

Level up during combat encounters only happens...well... in computer games.
#3
That_Blasted_Somoflange
Dec 18, 2008 5:03:22 Oh, as a DM I'd allow you to level up in mid fight. However, yes there's a caveat, you only have one rounds worth of time to level up. That's what? 6 seconds? So if you can do that, especially difficult on those even levels, then sure you can do it. You can only look at the books/restat stuff during your turn, at which point you forfeit all your actions. If it takes longer than 6 seconds, well you just stand there getting wailed on.

Or, to do a purely mechanical representation: leveling up mid combat takes a number of rounds equal to your new level. During this time you forfeit all actions (Move, Minor, Standard) while you redo your character slowing the game down for everyone.
#4
archtyrant_terevoth
Dec 18, 2008 5:08:07 Yeah, I made a rule that you can only level between sessions, because otherwise the game grinds to a halt.
#5
ebenmckay
Dec 18, 2008 5:27:06
Level up during combat encounters only happens...well... in computer games.

Just because I like to nitpick...

Burning Wheel does have a mechanic for improving skills (since it doesn't have levels) mid-combat. :D
#6
forumite
Dec 18, 2008 5:44:30 Our group plays with equal exp among all members, so the session when we level up the DM says so at the end, and then we level up until the next meeting. In game I´m not sure but I think we require an extended rest to level up, the char has to sit down and think about his new techniques, etc.
#7
Alas
Dec 18, 2008 8:15:09 The Shadow of Yesterday RPG explicitly allows character improvement mid encounter-- practically mid-action. However, that game's rule set is a lot less number intensive, experience point awards are player driven, and challenge resolution is a lot more "talky." For a D&D game (any edition), I'd leave off character sheet revision until the sword's back in the scabbard.
#8
Krusk
Dec 18, 2008 8:22:23
I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for?

I let players level up whenever they hit enough XP to do so. I also only give out XP at a point where I think a break to level for half an hour or so wouldn't ruin the flow of the session.

The DMG is loose on when to let characters level because the designers also have DMed before, and know that this is one of those things that any and every DM will do in their own manner, regardless of what a book says.

"it says you can level up now, so i guess we are done playing for the night." vs a continued session with a level up between sessions.

or alternativly
"It says you have to level up between sessions, but I wanted you guys one level higher for this fight, I guess the session ends" vs "It says you have to level up between sessions, but i wanted you a level higher for this fight. can you guys level up within the next 30 min? awsome, do it"
#9
batshido
Dec 18, 2008 8:23:06
Yeah, I made a rule that you can only level between sessions, because otherwise the game grinds to a halt.

I'll allow it at an extended rest if everyone already has their sheets ready for the next level. I don't like taking time out of a session for everyone to be flipping through books and comparing powers, but if they've got it all together we can do it during a bit of action-free downtime.
#10
Solodan
Dec 18, 2008 9:52:16 Yikes, i'd hate to have to bother with actually calculating XP on the fly, let alone leveling on the fly.
#11
batshido
Dec 18, 2008 9:58:38
Yikes, i'd hate to have to bother with actually calculating XP on the fly, let alone leveling on the fly.

When I'm planning an adventure, I make notes as to the enemy-based XP available from a given combat encounter. Then I just add in any extra that might have been accrued from various sources and total it out.

Makes handing out the XP at the end of the session much easier.
#12
sjmcc13
Dec 18, 2008 10:03:05
I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for?

It is loose on when you can level, but It does talk about how you earn experience(DMG pg. 120), and how you earn XP prevents dinging in combat. You earn Experience for overcoming the encounter, not for killing the individual opponent, which is a component of the encounters experience value.
#13
Reticent
Dec 18, 2008 10:21:50 The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle.

Playing with your next level already written up on a character sheet is pretty handy regardless. Running a game I think I'd allow it in situations where I know it isn't going to slow the game down any (i.e. I'd already planned for the possibility). I wouldn't force anyone to take the level up if they aren't yet sure how they want to 'spend' it.
#14
Nexus6
Dec 18, 2008 11:13:30 We typically allow a character to level up at any rest, BUT with the caveat that the player must have the his character already prepared in advance (i.e. can't have an interruption of the game). If you are not ready, you do not level up.
#15
endarian_dup
Dec 18, 2008 11:19:34 More trouble from the grognard here.

I used to DM in a way that didn't allow players to just 'get' their new powers. Why, all of a sudden, can you do these things? I used to make them go back to town and train.

That doesn't happen any more. This version allows for instant information - for example - understanding what a magic item is just by holding and examining it for 5 minutes. If hero's are good enough to do that...

Still, I insist on a rest. There must be reflection and understanding on what you are doing. On some rare occasions, I do insist on getting a trainer. One does not instantly learn how to speak a new language without being taught...just because you took the linguist feat.
#16
Reticent
Dec 18, 2008 11:34:10 No, but you might suddenly notice that attacking in a certain way leaves adjacent enemies exposed to damage a la Cleave.

Linguist is a great example where training is very appropriate but even then I have literally seen people shocked to realize that they could hold (awkward) conversations in Italian just because they spoke Spanish and had gotten used to the different nuances.
#17
CCS
Dec 18, 2008 11:39:46
But why not ding during combat?

Easy answer: Because it'll slow things down for everyone.

More complex answer: Because at our table xp is handed out by the DM, not a book, either at the end of the evening, or, sometimes at the end of an adventure/chapter/arc (yes, you could well go into an adventure and not see any xp for several game sessions at our table).
Also, for us, more than just counting up how many monsters were killed gets factored into figuring the xp reward. So it's irrellevant how much xp a player thinks they're getting just from the monster kills. The true total'd be impossible to assess while running a combat.
#18
batshido
Dec 18, 2008 12:27:14
Linguist is a great example where training is very appropriate but even then I have literally seen people shocked to realize that they could hold (awkward) conversations in Italian just because they spoke Spanish and had gotten used to the different nuances.

Romance languages are extremely similar in a lot of ways. In fact, almost all european languages share enough vocabulary that it's possible to cross over on some level.

I was fairly shocked to learn that between my Spanish and Russian, I have a nearly working knowledge of French. Found that out watching an episode of Star Trek TNG, actually. (And confirmed with a conversation with my then-girlfriend) ;)
#19
griffonheart
Dec 18, 2008 12:57:28 With my group(s) we get the exp at the end of the session or possibly during an extended rest if there is a big encounter coming where we could really use the potential level. In terms of new powers, if you get a new encounter power it will refresh after a short rest but a new daily requires a full extended rest to have access to it.

One thing to remember in terms of taking time away from the game is that you can usually tell when you are coming up on a level and may as well do the work of leveling before the session. That way when you get your level you have already chosen what you are going to take and it doesn't slow anything down.
#20
Krusk
Dec 18, 2008 13:59:48
Still, I insist on a rest. There must be reflection and understanding on what you are doing. On some rare occasions, I do insist on getting a trainer. One does not instantly learn how to speak a new language without being taught...just because you took the linguist feat.

You've been fighting dwarves all adventure, hearing their battle cries, and shared tactical advice as they give it out. You level up and invest a feat. Oh your character figured out how to make some sense out of that gibberish he has been overhearing.
#21
rumek
Dec 18, 2008 14:04:45 In my group, we level up at the beginning or end of a session. The only other times are when we decide to take a 10-15 minute break.
#22
mccowen
Dec 18, 2008 14:37:47
I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for?

No. Also, "ding" is an onomatopoeic noun, not a verb.

The DMG is loose, as someone said upthread, because the designers are well aware that if you ask any five DMs when they hand out experience, you'll get at least three different answers.

In an MMO, leveling up requires a few very simple decisions, and the calculations are handled for you. In a pen-and-paper RPG, it's considerably more complicated; not only are there more decisions to make, but you have to work everything out by hand (and ideally double-check it). It's a fun process, but it's an extremely inconvenient distraction from actual gameplay.
#23
Hocus-Smokus
Dec 18, 2008 14:41:09
No. Also, "ding" is an onomatopeic noun, not a verb.

The DMG is loose, as someone said upthread, because the designers are well aware that if you ask any five DMs when they hand out experience, you'll get at least three different answers.

In an MMO, leveling up requires a few very simple decisions, and the calculations are handled for you. In a pen-and-paper RPG, it's considerably more complicated; not only are there more decisions to make, but you have to work everything out by hand (and ideally double-check it). It's a fun process, but it's an extremely inconvenient distraction from actual gameplay.

Agreed on all things...except onomatopeic. It's onomatopoeic. Just a nitpick.
#24
Winterleaf
Dec 18, 2008 14:45:28
The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle.

Playing with your next level already written up on a character sheet is pretty handy regardless. Running a game I think I'd allow it in situations where I know it isn't going to slow the game down any (i.e. I'd already planned for the possibility). I wouldn't force anyone to take the level up if they aren't yet sure how they want to 'spend' it.

This.

To be honest: any player who is aware that his character is close to levelling up, should have their character sheet for the next level prepared so that there's no downtime when it does happen. Whether you choose to allow levelling up in combat or only after an encounter, best to be prepared.
#25
mccowen
Dec 18, 2008 14:48:35
Agreed on all things...except onomatopeic. It's onomatopoeic. Just a nitpick.

Fixed. It was a typo, rather than a spelling error, if that relieves your mind at all... :D
#26
boethius61
Dec 18, 2008 14:54:51 Session end (for players), but for characters I think the extended rest is ideal (unless training is required, liguist is a totally great example by the way!) Why the extended rest? Well, that's when everything resets anyway. YOu get all your powers back, you are refreshed, new surges, new spells for wizards. Just seems like the moment. The wizard wakes up after a tough day and decides, "You know, I'm gonna try that spell Bob used to do." Or some such stuff. Whatever works for you and keeps things decently real.
#27
tusz
Dec 18, 2008 15:18:26 I never really worry about this. Mainly because I consider the XP rewarded at the end of the encounter, rather than on a per-monster basis. To do otherwise would be a huge pain.

The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle.

There's still a way to do this if you don't do in-combat xp/leveling: have it happen the first combat after leveling. If you're a player, you find the new capability in the midst of battle. If you're a DM, you can make the first encounter a tough one, to force the PCs to find these "hidden stores of power."
#28
ficklegm
Dec 18, 2008 15:52:24 Anyone who uses the word "ding" for anything other than hitting level 30 will immediately be docked one level.

Also, anyone who uses the word "ding" for hitting level 30 will immediately be docked 29 levels.
#29
inkblot
Dec 18, 2008 18:08:39 In my group we sometimes level up in the middle of a session, but have not done so in the middle of a combat.

One session in particular was quiet memorable. We had just cleared out an abandoned secret laboratory in the middle of the Mournlands. We walk outside with the MacGuffin, and are greeted by the recurring badguy and dozen undead. I think the DM expected us to hand over the MacGuffin and go along our merry way, but we didn't.

We paused the game right there, and took a vote on whether to fight this out tonight, or wait until next week. It was unanimous among the players, we would keep going. The DM was wary. He was worried we'd all die. We were worried too, especially since we had just gained enough XP to level up. So he let us level up right there, regain HP equal to our new hitdie roll, and any new spell slots came in unused.

Then we barely made it out of that encounter alive. At one point my halfling ranger/wizard was dangling 15 feet in the air, from the claws of a giant undead, trying to reload his crossbow as fast as possible. Fun!
#30
mycroftb
Dec 20, 2008 1:03:02 I have some experience with leveling during combat. It was a game that was horrible on many levels (Deck of Many Things at level 4, YAY). Every time we killed a monster, the DM would instantly award XP and treasure. One time the fighter got enough experience to level in the middle of a Cleave. While leveling he also noticed he had enough gold to buy a better sword, and the DM let him do so, in the middle of a Cleave.

I'd prefer to keep leveling between sessions, or at the end of a major quest.
#31
winterstar
Dec 20, 2008 17:55:14 I would like to second (Third?) the idea that you should always at least have a rough outline of how you are planning on leveling your character already written up, but I personally figure that characters would at the very least need a short rest to actually level, with an extended rest preferred.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fivepopes Dec 18, 2008 4:29:09	I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for?
#2 Delazar78 Dec 18, 2008 4:46:19	I never, in 15 years of DMing, have allowed players to level up DURING a combat encounter. I think every gaming book i read suggests to do it after a session, or when the WHOLE scenario is completed. It's just time consuming, confusing, interrupts game, a mess for the DM, for fellow players, etc. Level up during combat encounters only happens...well... in computer games.
#3 That_Blasted_Somoflange Dec 18, 2008 5:03:22	Oh, as a DM I'd allow you to level up in mid fight. However, yes there's a caveat, you only have one rounds worth of time to level up. That's what? 6 seconds? So if you can do that, especially difficult on those even levels, then sure you can do it. You can only look at the books/restat stuff during your turn, at which point you forfeit all your actions. If it takes longer than 6 seconds, well you just stand there getting wailed on. Or, to do a purely mechanical representation: leveling up mid combat takes a number of rounds equal to your new level. During this time you forfeit all actions (Move, Minor, Standard) while you redo your character slowing the game down for everyone.
#4 archtyrant_terevoth Dec 18, 2008 5:08:07	Yeah, I made a rule that you can only level between sessions, because otherwise the game grinds to a halt.
#5 ebenmckay Dec 18, 2008 5:27:06	Level up during combat encounters only happens...well... in computer games. Just because I like to nitpick... Burning Wheel does have a mechanic for improving skills (since it doesn't have levels) mid-combat. :D
#6 forumite Dec 18, 2008 5:44:30	Our group plays with equal exp among all members, so the session when we level up the DM says so at the end, and then we level up until the next meeting. In game I´m not sure but I think we require an extended rest to level up, the char has to sit down and think about his new techniques, etc.
#7 Alas Dec 18, 2008 8:15:09	The Shadow of Yesterday RPG explicitly allows character improvement mid encounter-- practically mid-action. However, that game's rule set is a lot less number intensive, experience point awards are player driven, and challenge resolution is a lot more "talky." For a D&D game (any edition), I'd leave off character sheet revision until the sword's back in the scabbard.
#8 Krusk Dec 18, 2008 8:22:23	I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for? I let players level up whenever they hit enough XP to do so. I also only give out XP at a point where I think a break to level for half an hour or so wouldn't ruin the flow of the session. The DMG is loose on when to let characters level because the designers also have DMed before, and know that this is one of those things that any and every DM will do in their own manner, regardless of what a book says. "it says you can level up now, so i guess we are done playing for the night." vs a continued session with a level up between sessions. or alternativly "It says you have to level up between sessions, but I wanted you guys one level higher for this fight, I guess the session ends" vs "It says you have to level up between sessions, but i wanted you a level higher for this fight. can you guys level up within the next 30 min? awsome, do it"
#9 batshido Dec 18, 2008 8:23:06	Yeah, I made a rule that you can only level between sessions, because otherwise the game grinds to a halt. I'll allow it at an extended rest if everyone already has their sheets ready for the next level. I don't like taking time out of a session for everyone to be flipping through books and comparing powers, but if they've got it all together we can do it during a bit of action-free downtime.
#10 Solodan Dec 18, 2008 9:52:16	Yikes, i'd hate to have to bother with actually calculating XP on the fly, let alone leveling on the fly.
#11 batshido Dec 18, 2008 9:58:38	Yikes, i'd hate to have to bother with actually calculating XP on the fly, let alone leveling on the fly. When I'm planning an adventure, I make notes as to the enemy-based XP available from a given combat encounter. Then I just add in any extra that might have been accrued from various sources and total it out. Makes handing out the XP at the end of the session much easier.
#12 sjmcc13 Dec 18, 2008 10:03:05	I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for? It is loose on when you can level, but It does talk about how you earn experience(DMG pg. 120), and how you earn XP prevents dinging in combat. You earn Experience for overcoming the encounter, not for killing the individual opponent, which is a component of the encounters experience value.
#13 Reticent Dec 18, 2008 10:21:50	The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle. Playing with your next level already written up on a character sheet is pretty handy regardless. Running a game I think I'd allow it in situations where I know it isn't going to slow the game down any (i.e. I'd already planned for the possibility). I wouldn't force anyone to take the level up if they aren't yet sure how they want to 'spend' it.
#14 Nexus6 Dec 18, 2008 11:13:30	We typically allow a character to level up at any rest, BUT with the caveat that the player must have the his character already prepared in advance (i.e. can't have an interruption of the game). If you are not ready, you do not level up.
#15 endarian_dup Dec 18, 2008 11:19:34	More trouble from the grognard here. I used to DM in a way that didn't allow players to just 'get' their new powers. Why, all of a sudden, can you do these things? I used to make them go back to town and train. That doesn't happen any more. This version allows for instant information - for example - understanding what a magic item is just by holding and examining it for 5 minutes. If hero's are good enough to do that... Still, I insist on a rest. There must be reflection and understanding on what you are doing. On some rare occasions, I do insist on getting a trainer. One does not instantly learn how to speak a new language without being taught...just because you took the linguist feat.
#16 Reticent Dec 18, 2008 11:34:10	No, but you might suddenly notice that attacking in a certain way leaves adjacent enemies exposed to damage a la Cleave. Linguist is a great example where training is very appropriate but even then I have literally seen people shocked to realize that they could hold (awkward) conversations in Italian just because they spoke Spanish and had gotten used to the different nuances.
#17 CCS Dec 18, 2008 11:39:46	But why not ding during combat? Easy answer: Because it'll slow things down for everyone. More complex answer: Because at our table xp is handed out by the DM, not a book, either at the end of the evening, or, sometimes at the end of an adventure/chapter/arc (yes, you could well go into an adventure and not see any xp for several game sessions at our table). Also, for us, more than just counting up how many monsters were killed gets factored into figuring the xp reward. So it's irrellevant how much xp a player thinks they're getting just from the monster kills. The true total'd be impossible to assess while running a combat.
#18 batshido Dec 18, 2008 12:27:14	Linguist is a great example where training is very appropriate but even then I have literally seen people shocked to realize that they could hold (awkward) conversations in Italian just because they spoke Spanish and had gotten used to the different nuances. Romance languages are extremely similar in a lot of ways. In fact, almost all european languages share enough vocabulary that it's possible to cross over on some level. I was fairly shocked to learn that between my Spanish and Russian, I have a nearly working knowledge of French. Found that out watching an episode of Star Trek TNG, actually. (And confirmed with a conversation with my then-girlfriend) ;)
#19 griffonheart Dec 18, 2008 12:57:28	With my group(s) we get the exp at the end of the session or possibly during an extended rest if there is a big encounter coming where we could really use the potential level. In terms of new powers, if you get a new encounter power it will refresh after a short rest but a new daily requires a full extended rest to have access to it. One thing to remember in terms of taking time away from the game is that you can usually tell when you are coming up on a level and may as well do the work of leveling before the session. That way when you get your level you have already chosen what you are going to take and it doesn't slow anything down.
#20 Krusk Dec 18, 2008 13:59:48	Still, I insist on a rest. There must be reflection and understanding on what you are doing. On some rare occasions, I do insist on getting a trainer. One does not instantly learn how to speak a new language without being taught...just because you took the linguist feat. You've been fighting dwarves all adventure, hearing their battle cries, and shared tactical advice as they give it out. You level up and invest a feat. Oh your character figured out how to make some sense out of that gibberish he has been overhearing.
#21 rumek Dec 18, 2008 14:04:45	In my group, we level up at the beginning or end of a session. The only other times are when we decide to take a 10-15 minute break.
#22 mccowen Dec 18, 2008 14:37:47	I have the impression that the dmg is quite loose on when characters should be allowed to gain a level (during short rest, extended rest etc). But why not ding during combat? Last session, during fourth minion rush, I am sure I had enough xp for a ding, but my dm told me no. But isn't dinging what minion rushes are for? No. Also, "ding" is an onomatopoeic noun, not a verb. The DMG is loose, as someone said upthread, because the designers are well aware that if you ask any five DMs when they hand out experience, you'll get at least three different answers. In an MMO, leveling up requires a few very simple decisions, and the calculations are handled for you. In a pen-and-paper RPG, it's considerably more complicated; not only are there more decisions to make, but you have to work everything out by hand (and ideally double-check it). It's a fun process, but it's an extremely inconvenient distraction from actual gameplay.
#23 Hocus-Smokus Dec 18, 2008 14:41:09	No. Also, "ding" is an onomatopeic noun, not a verb. The DMG is loose, as someone said upthread, because the designers are well aware that if you ask any five DMs when they hand out experience, you'll get at least three different answers. In an MMO, leveling up requires a few very simple decisions, and the calculations are handled for you. In a pen-and-paper RPG, it's considerably more complicated; not only are there more decisions to make, but you have to work everything out by hand (and ideally double-check it). It's a fun process, but it's an extremely inconvenient distraction from actual gameplay. Agreed on all things...except onomatopeic. It's onomatopoeic. Just a nitpick.
#24 Winterleaf Dec 18, 2008 14:45:28	The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle. Playing with your next level already written up on a character sheet is pretty handy regardless. Running a game I think I'd allow it in situations where I know it isn't going to slow the game down any (i.e. I'd already planned for the possibility). I wouldn't force anyone to take the level up if they aren't yet sure how they want to 'spend' it. This. To be honest: any player who is aware that his character is close to levelling up, should have their character sheet for the next level prepared so that there's no downtime when it does happen. Whether you choose to allow levelling up in combat or only after an encounter, best to be prepared.
#25 mccowen Dec 18, 2008 14:48:35	Agreed on all things...except onomatopeic. It's onomatopoeic. Just a nitpick. Fixed. It was a typo, rather than a spelling error, if that relieves your mind at all... :D
#26 boethius61 Dec 18, 2008 14:54:51	Session end (for players), but for characters I think the extended rest is ideal (unless training is required, liguist is a totally great example by the way!) Why the extended rest? Well, that's when everything resets anyway. YOu get all your powers back, you are refreshed, new surges, new spells for wizards. Just seems like the moment. The wizard wakes up after a tough day and decides, "You know, I'm gonna try that spell Bob used to do." Or some such stuff. Whatever works for you and keeps things decently real.
#27 tusz Dec 18, 2008 15:18:26	I never really worry about this. Mainly because I consider the XP rewarded at the end of the encounter, rather than on a per-monster basis. To do otherwise would be a huge pain. The idea of leveling during combat could add a lot of dramatic flare in some cases- digging deep out of desperation to spontaneously develop a new move or technique in the heat of battle. There's still a way to do this if you don't do in-combat xp/leveling: have it happen the first combat after leveling. If you're a player, you find the new capability in the midst of battle. If you're a DM, you can make the first encounter a tough one, to force the PCs to find these "hidden stores of power."
#28 ficklegm Dec 18, 2008 15:52:24	Anyone who uses the word "ding" for anything other than hitting level 30 will immediately be docked one level. Also, anyone who uses the word "ding" for hitting level 30 will immediately be docked 29 levels.
#29 inkblot Dec 18, 2008 18:08:39	In my group we sometimes level up in the middle of a session, but have not done so in the middle of a combat. One session in particular was quiet memorable. We had just cleared out an abandoned secret laboratory in the middle of the Mournlands. We walk outside with the MacGuffin, and are greeted by the recurring badguy and dozen undead. I think the DM expected us to hand over the MacGuffin and go along our merry way, but we didn't. We paused the game right there, and took a vote on whether to fight this out tonight, or wait until next week. It was unanimous among the players, we would keep going. The DM was wary. He was worried we'd all die. We were worried too, especially since we had just gained enough XP to level up. So he let us level up right there, regain HP equal to our new hitdie roll, and any new spell slots came in unused. Then we barely made it out of that encounter alive. At one point my halfling ranger/wizard was dangling 15 feet in the air, from the claws of a giant undead, trying to reload his crossbow as fast as possible. Fun!
#30 mycroftb Dec 20, 2008 1:03:02	I have some experience with leveling during combat. It was a game that was horrible on many levels (Deck of Many Things at level 4, YAY). Every time we killed a monster, the DM would instantly award XP and treasure. One time the fighter got enough experience to level in the middle of a Cleave. While leveling he also noticed he had enough gold to buy a better sword, and the DM let him do so, in the middle of a Cleave. I'd prefer to keep leveling between sessions, or at the end of a major quest.
#31 winterstar Dec 20, 2008 17:55:14	I would like to second (Third?) the idea that you should always at least have a rough outline of how you are planning on leveling your character already written up, but I personally figure that characters would at the very least need a short rest to actually level, with an extended rest preferred.