DM/GM allowing "Hand of God", "Smite", and "DM/GM Assisted Resurrection". - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

DM/GM allowing "Hand of God", "Smite", and "DM/GM Assisted Resurrection".

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
firestarrage
Mar 16, 2010 17:12:04 As a DM/GM, I give my groups three options that they can use only once (1) within the span of the campiagn.

HAND OF GOD: This is basically where the group decides that the situation that they are currently in is either too far above/below them in level (3-5 levels above/below) or that it is a situation that will kill the entire group, or they need to get to a new area on the map. IF the group chooses to use this option, the DM/GM will reach down pick up the group and remove them from the situation or place them on a new area of the map. There is a serious experience and story exp. penalty for this option that is chosen by the DM/GM.

SMITE: This is where the characters either have pissed off a god, deity/demi-god, or have come face to face with a serious monster that they don't think they can kill and wish to have the DM/GM kill the monster for them. This will end the combat and will remove any exp. and treasure. Meaning that the monster or pissed off deity/god/demi-god have been killed but they do not gain any exp. or treaure from it.

DM/GM ASSISTED RESURRECTION: This is used when the group feels that one of their best characters has been killed perminately and they are in a situation where they cannot resurrrect that character themselves nor can they find/locate someone to do the job for them. They can then ask the DM/GM to resurrect that character for them at a cost to them. The cost can either be in money (usually an extreme amount 30,000 gems or such) or 1/2 of the remaining character's lives will be taken and given to the resurrected character.

What do you think of this? Would you use these options for your Game? Do you use something similar to this?
#2
lord_darwath
Mar 20, 2010 22:13:09 Personally, I would not because having PC's directly invoke the DM is big time metagaming. On the other hand, I think most DMs do these kind of things "covertly" at some time or another. A good DM should always be willing/able to adjust an encounter on the fly if the party is facing completely outrageous results.

#3
oldguygaming
Mar 22, 2010 23:47:31 I agree. The DM is a moderator/arbiter not an agency that can be called upon for assistance.

However, given that the characters are living in a world with actual gods that have been known to take an active interest in what happens within the world, it isn't unbelievable that one of the gods may take pity on the party and intervene. This should be done extremely rarely and at the DM's discretion. It should definately not be the players' decision.

But there are many many many other ways of dealing with nasty situations. Say the party is in an encounter that they cannot win and cannot run from. Another group can appear and help the party. More monsters can appear and fight the first group of monsters for the right to eat the characters giving the characters a chance to run while they fight it out. A well prepared cleric might have a scroll enablling her to become ethereal (or otherwise hide out the battle) and come back to rescue the others later (if possible). A wandering healer can come by after and res any un-eaten corpses. As already mentioned, a god could intervene. An earthquake could cause a rift in the area seperating combatants allowing escape. The DM could "fudge" damage to PCs or lower monster HPs.

These are just examples. There are endless possibilities for altering a situation while maintaining the illusion of neutrality. I would highly recommend to sticking to that sort of "divine intervention" over letting the PCs directly interract with the DM.

All that aside, what's wrong with letting the party lose? It's annoying to die and far worse to have the whole party wipe and lose the characters forever. However, that sort of thing does tend to create better players. Maybe they'll be more cautious in the future and not get into (or recognize earlier) an unwinnable encounter and find a way to avoid it or run away. It also adds excitment to the game when you know that permanent character death really is a possibility and that the DM won't always come to the rescue.
#4
sfurtwangler
Mar 26, 2010 15:50:00
It also adds excitment to the game when you know that permanent character death really is a possibility and that the DM won't always come to the rescue.

QFT. Its already very easy to get a few characters back from the dead, in most games - but at least having to go through the process of casting Raise Dead, and recover bodies, and whatnot helps the players think they're earning it. Having the DM litterally reach down and slap away a monster that HE put there just screams "sorry, my bad" in which case, you really shouldn't be punishing the players, as you suggested above.

I also don't think you'll be doing your players any favor by holding their hands, and giving them "undos". The same goes for you, as a DM. Having an easy "out" won't help you learn how to properly balance encounters so that they don't end up party-wiping.
#5
alitain
Apr 03, 2010 18:13:27 I'm in agreement with the others, those are things that the DM should be doing more on the sly. Why give the players all that power? I mean I get being in a tough situation but yeah way too much power to the players to just erase what they don't like. That can screw you over if they're in a boss battle and just want to wave it all away.
#6
Dark_Stryke
Apr 04, 2010 3:57:11 I wouldn't do something like this in a "serious" campaign, as it sort of breaks the flow of the narrative if the PCs invoke the help of an entity that's literally beyond the fourth wall, but in a game with a silly premise like the characters being aware that they're in a game, an option like this would actually make the game a lot more fun, as it would add to the sort of meta-awareness the PCs had.
#7
Spor
Apr 04, 2010 17:27:12 A simple way of bypassing the metagaming aspect is by implementing 'fate points' - 1 point awarded at each tier, therefore a player will never be able to invoke this power more than 3 times in his characters life.

By spending a fate point they are able to overturn what would normaly be a situation that would leave them dead.

Thoughts?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 firestarrage Mar 16, 2010 17:12:04	As a DM/GM, I give my groups three options that they can use only once (1) within the span of the campiagn. HAND OF GOD: This is basically where the group decides that the situation that they are currently in is either too far above/below them in level (3-5 levels above/below) or that it is a situation that will kill the entire group, or they need to get to a new area on the map. IF the group chooses to use this option, the DM/GM will reach down pick up the group and remove them from the situation or place them on a new area of the map. There is a serious experience and story exp. penalty for this option that is chosen by the DM/GM. SMITE: This is where the characters either have pissed off a god, deity/demi-god, or have come face to face with a serious monster that they don't think they can kill and wish to have the DM/GM kill the monster for them. This will end the combat and will remove any exp. and treasure. Meaning that the monster or pissed off deity/god/demi-god have been killed but they do not gain any exp. or treaure from it. DM/GM ASSISTED RESURRECTION: This is used when the group feels that one of their best characters has been killed perminately and they are in a situation where they cannot resurrrect that character themselves nor can they find/locate someone to do the job for them. They can then ask the DM/GM to resurrect that character for them at a cost to them. The cost can either be in money (usually an extreme amount 30,000 gems or such) or 1/2 of the remaining character's lives will be taken and given to the resurrected character. What do you think of this? Would you use these options for your Game? Do you use something similar to this?
#2 lord_darwath Mar 20, 2010 22:13:09	Personally, I would not because having PC's directly invoke the DM is big time metagaming. On the other hand, I think most DMs do these kind of things "covertly" at some time or another. A good DM should always be willing/able to adjust an encounter on the fly if the party is facing completely outrageous results.
#3 oldguygaming Mar 22, 2010 23:47:31	I agree. The DM is a moderator/arbiter not an agency that can be called upon for assistance. However, given that the characters are living in a world with actual gods that have been known to take an active interest in what happens within the world, it isn't unbelievable that one of the gods may take pity on the party and intervene. This should be done extremely rarely and at the DM's discretion. It should definately not be the players' decision. But there are many many many other ways of dealing with nasty situations. Say the party is in an encounter that they cannot win and cannot run from. Another group can appear and help the party. More monsters can appear and fight the first group of monsters for the right to eat the characters giving the characters a chance to run while they fight it out. A well prepared cleric might have a scroll enablling her to become ethereal (or otherwise hide out the battle) and come back to rescue the others later (if possible). A wandering healer can come by after and res any un-eaten corpses. As already mentioned, a god could intervene. An earthquake could cause a rift in the area seperating combatants allowing escape. The DM could "fudge" damage to PCs or lower monster HPs. These are just examples. There are endless possibilities for altering a situation while maintaining the illusion of neutrality. I would highly recommend to sticking to that sort of "divine intervention" over letting the PCs directly interract with the DM. All that aside, what's wrong with letting the party lose? It's annoying to die and far worse to have the whole party wipe and lose the characters forever. However, that sort of thing does tend to create better players. Maybe they'll be more cautious in the future and not get into (or recognize earlier) an unwinnable encounter and find a way to avoid it or run away. It also adds excitment to the game when you know that permanent character death really is a possibility and that the DM won't always come to the rescue.
#4 sfurtwangler Mar 26, 2010 15:50:00	It also adds excitment to the game when you know that permanent character death really is a possibility and that the DM won't always come to the rescue. QFT. Its already very easy to get a few characters back from the dead, in most games - but at least having to go through the process of casting Raise Dead, and recover bodies, and whatnot helps the players think they're earning it. Having the DM litterally reach down and slap away a monster that HE put there just screams "sorry, my bad" in which case, you really shouldn't be punishing the players, as you suggested above. I also don't think you'll be doing your players any favor by holding their hands, and giving them "undos". The same goes for you, as a DM. Having an easy "out" won't help you learn how to properly balance encounters so that they don't end up party-wiping.
#5 alitain Apr 03, 2010 18:13:27	I'm in agreement with the others, those are things that the DM should be doing more on the sly. Why give the players all that power? I mean I get being in a tough situation but yeah way too much power to the players to just erase what they don't like. That can screw you over if they're in a boss battle and just want to wave it all away.
#6 Dark_Stryke Apr 04, 2010 3:57:11	I wouldn't do something like this in a "serious" campaign, as it sort of breaks the flow of the narrative if the PCs invoke the help of an entity that's literally beyond the fourth wall, but in a game with a silly premise like the characters being aware that they're in a game, an option like this would actually make the game a lot more fun, as it would add to the sort of meta-awareness the PCs had.
#7 Spor Apr 04, 2010 17:27:12	A simple way of bypassing the metagaming aspect is by implementing 'fate points' - 1 point awarded at each tier, therefore a player will never be able to invoke this power more than 3 times in his characters life. By spending a fate point they are able to overturn what would normaly be a situation that would leave them dead. Thoughts?