Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jack_of_all_trades_02 Aug 26, 2008 18:40:10	So, in the game I run I decided that I would rip off Secret Invasion aka The Thing aka Invasion of the Body Snatchers aka the Usual Suspects. It's going pretty well. Oh and I've stolen a lot of names, just so you know I'm aware of it. What I'd like to have is a little feedback and some advice getting from point A to C. Here what has happened so far. The players, an elite and specialized group of mercenaries from the village of Nimbus (an organized mercenary village who's secret purpose is to keep the balance of power on a very unstable continent from being upset), all believed that they were taking a job, as ordered by the Commander of Nimbus Reigan Storm, for the military of Sancrist (The human country, which in the last 20 years switched from a theocratic system into a monarchistic one) as a special ops group located in the Continent's largest country's capital city, St. Augustine (My campaign is meant to transition 3.5 into the 4e points of light setup. It takes place on the last civilized continent before the decline into the 4e world). They were chilling out in Winterhaven after KoTS (reflavored as a special mission to prevent a secret cult from gaining politcal power, which could eventually cause another war.) waiting for a liason to come and pick them up. The night before he showed up they encountered a mysterious man in red with all sorts of information on the players at Rafton's Inn. He offered them a job in one the capital's largest underground thieving factions, the Nightsong (I have yet to come up with a public name). This faction regulates the grain trade and crime to some extent (think the Aventine ala HBO's Rome, except not so evil), except as Assassin's. Apparently they were branching out. They'd have to complete the job to get in. The group politely refused and allowed him to go about his business. (I was fully prepared for what would happen if they'd accepted.) The next morning when their liason showed up, they discovered that he was none other than Gregor, an old buddy, and mentor/instructer during training from a few years ago. (Note: This is a campaign that has been running off and on two DMs since 1995 with a couple of retcons either because of our age, or switching from 2nd to 3rd to 4th ed. More importantly this character Gregor, a paladin, was my old pc when the other dm was running the game, in 3e, so the players are familiar with him too.) After the suprise reunion, one of the players noticed he was acting off, a little out of character if you will. Gregor responded saying that he was a little down and that he failed his mission and was unable to track down the Princess(more on this later), whom he had feelings for... Upon reaching St. Augustine (the capital city), Gregor told the characters to take off thier armor, to keep a low profile, say nothing of the military, and follow him. Shortly after they arrived at thier destination; a shoddy, worn down, house in the ghetto. Inside it was a different story. A command base, with weapons, maps, a war room, whatever. Upon entering they were again reunited with a familiar figure, Reigan Storm (I know the name is kind of ridiculous but it's a continuity thing). He informed the group that they were not joining the ranks of the Sancrist Army. He told them that Nimbus was secretly founded by Sancrist and that as Allies they normally share information and that Sancrist's problems are not only Nimbus' problems, but the entire continent's. That they were going to be a part of Gregor's Team operating directly under him. He told them that something has gone very wrong with the government. He said that there is corruption amongst the Nobles, City Guard, and other government orginizations that could go as high as the royal family. The players were assigned to investigate this. He recieved word that an assassination attempt against a prominent noble was going to take place during the Tournement at the Colloseum. Since neither he nor the players had any information as to who the target is, he had to make special seating arrangements to keep the nobles all together. The players were able to keep an eye out as contestants in the tourney. Sure enough the information was solid. Nightsong agents attacked the oldest prince. The prince, Cain II aka the blood prince, stands 6'10" and weighs in at about 300 lbs. I figure he's between level 15 and 20. He single handedly cut down his would be assassins with ease. During the attack the emergency horns sounded off because the city was being attacked by orcs. Not a full on invasion. A relatively small force got in and got out kidnapping as many women as possible. The party caught wind of this abandoned thier post and went after them, saving two women who ran away during the fight. Upon returning to the base empty handed, Storm led them to the basement where he'd intoduced the players to a captured assassin chained to the wall. The assassin told the players that he was from the desert of Marr to the far south and that he had no idea who Cain II was. He said he was hired weeks ago by a man in red and impersonate the Nightsong Guild to throw off suspicion. He said he was hired by the Red Hand and that if he and his team could pull it off would be made men. He said the orc attack part of the plan was two-fold to capture slaves for profit and to help create a diversion for his team to escape. He revealed the location of thier secret base. He players and Gregor left at once to this secret location, spotting an ambush they were easily able to keep from being overwhelmed. During this fight the players noticed that Gregor, normally a lion in battle, didn't really do much fighting. However, after the battle he executed the hostage orc the party had taken. The groups ranger was able to track the orcs back to their real base, a cave near a mississippi sized river, where they were ambushed again upon arrival. This time the attack came from Gregor and some halfling pirates(for marvel readers, this is the Skrullektra reveal). After slaying him, his body resumed its natural form into that of a doppleganger. In the base they found a small ship departing down the river, some women gagged, bound and stuffed into boxes, and a statue of Gregor that thanks to a natural 20 arcana check appears to be a living statue, the result of a gaze attack. Diego: 3rd child of Cain I with no claim to the throne. Diego is a changling (1/2 doppleganger). He was concieved during the first doppleganger invasion attempt when the queen was replaced. Due to his untimely death during KoTS, the party is aware that he is indeed a changeling, they remain unaware of his royal heritage. He normally adopts the form of a tall black man with a large afro. I'm making sure that most of my story-arcs involve the pc's in some way. The secret invasion links Diego to the larger storyarc. Cain II is not the heir to the throne. A seven years ago Cain I declared that his first child Leah would succeed him as Queen. Princess Leah disappeared six years ago. She was seen running away from the castle. DoppleGregor mentioned that one of players will betray them. What I'd like to know are a few ways to make the government seem more corrupt without compromising the integrity of the existing King. How to take the problem out of his hands. I'm thinking about crooked, extortionistic guards and taxmen. I'd also like to know how to turn this into a revolt situation. I mean I intend of eventually having the dopplegangers stir up a mob and storm the castle. I was kind of thinking about V for Vendetta. Also, this kind of game involves a lot of psychological intrigue. I'm trying to turn the players against eachother a little bit. I don't think they'll kill eachother. However right now I can all ready see the flaws of this story. Right now some of the players think that Reigan is doppley and is not to be trusted, some of the players think that he is the only one on the up and up, and one of the players thinks the party should run off to Winterhaven to see if the priestess there can un-petrify Gregor so he can ask him for help. How do I keep them on thier toes without losing complete control of the game? Also does anybody want to know what is really going on?
#2 fodigg Aug 27, 2008 14:36:55	What I'd like to know are a few ways to make the government seem more corrupt without compromising the integrity of the existing King. How to take the problem out of his hands. I'm thinking about crooked, extortionistic guards and taxmen. Advisers would be good. Or a corrupt "parliment" or "house of nobles" that ties the kings hands. Thing a bunch of wormtongues or jafars. I'd also like to know how to turn this into a revolt situation. I mean I intend of eventually having the dopplegangers stir up a mob and storm the castle. I was kind of thinking about V for Vendetta. I think this should be one of many things you do. Not so much as "organize a revolt" but "get them fighting each other". Maybe a religious schism in the major temple that causes infighting? And then while everyone is fighting each other, fueled by the "skrulls", and while the king is busy trying to stop the fighting, the invading army arrives and invades. Also, this kind of game involves a lot of psychological intrigue. I'm trying to turn the players against eachother a little bit. I don't think they'll kill eachother. However right now I can all ready see the flaws of this story. Right now some of the players think that Reigan is doppley and is not to be trusted, some of the players think that he is the only one on the up and up, and one of the players thinks the party should run off to Winterhaven to see if the priestess there can un-petrify Gregor so he can ask him for help. How do I keep them on thier toes without losing complete control of the game? Also does anybody want to know what is really going on? I think you should let them feel like they're in control. Provide some NPCs that they "know" are on the up-and-up via some ritual or something, and then have those NPCs betray them at a certain point. I think you need to aim for one big reveal and then a bunch of fighting instead of constant tension building. --- Another trick you can do is separate the party briefly, let the session go on normally, and then say "Stop. You, you and you were all replaced. You are "skrulls"." Then you run those as NPCs in a brief encounter, hopefully capturing the rest of the party and dragging them back to the jail with the replaced party members. You could then run some sort of encounter just for the party members that didn't get to take part in the other encounter. Maybe they're the ones who have to lead the prison escape?
#3 fodigg Aug 27, 2008 14:38:47	Note: I'm not sure how useful it will be since I didn't get too many replies (the old "Comics" forum didn't get much traffic), but I created a thread on the same concept here Marvel Comics is currently doing a "mega-event" known as Secret Invasion. This is spinning off of previous mega-events (in order of publication) House of M, Civil War, and World War Hulk. The setup for Secret War is that the evil empire of the Skrulls, an alien race of shapeshifting humanoids, has infiltrated the ranks of the heroes undetected, and is now activating all "sleeper agents" in order to begin a full-scale invasion. My question is, has anyone tried something like this in a campaign? I don't mean "oh, the king who gave us the quest is actually an incubus", that's not epic, that's an episode of Scooby Doo. I mean important NPCs (or even PCs) that have gone through some serious adventure turn out to not be what you thought they were. A big betrayal, but they were never really on your side to begin with. It's a very Cold War theme, Invasion of the Body Snatchers-style. Eberron, with the cold-war setup, the hidden and sinister cults (blood of vol anyone?), and changelings, seems perfect for this type of story arc. Anyone tried it? Anyone thinking about trying it? How would/did you do it?
#4 jack_of_all_trades_02 Aug 28, 2008 1:07:14	I think I need to tell you more about where I'm going. My players are all level four right now so were still very early into the campaign. I've been thinking heavily about comicbooks when designing this campaign. If you've read a lot of x-men or just about any team dc book you'll know what I'm talking about. My game has a lot of continuity and therefore a lot of characthers. We've done a lot of adventures of the week, and one too many save the world games (In my opinion a d&d campaign where you start off having to save the world will always fail, thus the big retcon I did when I returned to dming this mug, think about the entire season of Dallas that was really just a dream.) Since I have all this great continuity and all of these great characters I feel that I can do a semi-episodic kind of d&d game based on the flow of some of these comics. I have a giant overall storyarc with several interconnecting small stories that are all tied together real well but definitely different. Think about how one week the xmen would be fighting off the shiar and the next they'd be in the astral plane, and the next in the sewers. The doppleganger thing is a very small and thematic piece to the puzzle. It's one pc's story arc. The doppleganger's, unlike the skrulls aren't taking over anything. They are being used. They know this, and will try to take advantage of the situation but it's not going to work out in there favor. Here is the skinny. The main baddies are group of world players known as the 7 Deadlies (there are lesser versions too, like jealousy, anger, and such.) Cain II is Greed, and Teron the Dwarven King of Furobardin is Pride. Between thier countries is a large gold mine that has been the true cause of several wars and border skirmishes. The mine lies within Sancrist's borders, however the only road to it lies in Furobardin. After Cain I, a fantastic diplomat, became King of Sancrist, he negotiated a longstanding peace treaty with the Dwarves and opened communication lines, and trade and commerce. The two countries now thrive off one another. Cain I was seduced by Sehanine, she didn't give herself to him without a price though. She demanded a boon at a given time. 9 months later, he found a baby girl (his first child) at the foot of his bed. 17 years later he was told to anounce that she would succeed him as Queen. He was divinely compelled to agree. His oldest son, outraged decided to take matters into his own hands. Cain II tried to kill Leah, Cain I's oldest daughter, and make it look like suicide. His attack failed and she was able to get away, she hasn't been seen since. Currently Leah has set up shop as the assistant to the head of the Nightsong Thieve's, Lisa (another old player character). Sloth made a deal with Cain II and the Teron, then a non-heir prince, to bring them the thrones of thier respective countries in exchange for a war between the two. Cain II, Greed, now commands the dopplegangers. He's using them to start up enough of a riot to kill his father and sieze the throne. He tried to wait until he's dealt with his sister but his greed got the best of him. One of the key battlefields for the war is actually a giant sacraficial blood alter. With enough of a sacrafice Sloth will be able bring the Fallen Tarasque buried underneath back from the dead to do his bidding, this part wouldn't happen until epic levels. I'm just seeding it now. As far as keeping the King's hands tied, a religious organization is perfect. Sancrist until twentysome years ago was a theocracy. I'm thinking that Cain I has to tolerate this organization composed of some of the crooked nobles of the old regime. However I'm trying to think of the specific articles of social unrest that these people can create for the citizen's of St. Augustine. During the next game I'm going to give the pc's some measure of control, or at least put them on the path to it. They are going to meet Cain I who is going to set them up with the real Nightsong Guild to find a "weapon" to reveal a one's doppley nature.
#5 fodigg Aug 28, 2008 10:11:40	This sounds more like Mission Impossible than Secret Invasion. Key individuals "peel their face off" and they're somebody else. That's not a bad thing though.
#6 jack_of_all_trades_02 Aug 28, 2008 14:21:50	Your right. Their aren't enough dopplegangers around to form an invading force. That doesn't mean they can't take control of an army of humans. Its mostly just inspired by Secret Invasion. If you ask me the invading force of the skrull army in the comics is the mediocre part. Don't get me wrong the fights scenes are fantastic but I tend to read through them fast and come back and check them out in detail later. Also the pc who is a secret doppleganger is a happy side effect of having a character wanting to switch from a dragonborn paladin to an eladrin swordmage.
#7 fodigg Aug 28, 2008 14:27:06	Your right. Their aren't enough dopplegangers around to form an invading force. That doesn't mean they can't take control of an army of humans. Its mostly just inspired by Secret Invasion. If you ask me the invading force of the skrull army in the comics is the mediocre part. Don't get me wrong the fights scenes are fantastic but I tend to read through them fast and come back and check them out in detail later. I've been rather dissapointed with Secret Invasion so far. It's like Bendis forgot to put in a good story and is instead going for "gotcha!" moments all the time. I don't read comics by individual issues, so I get annoyed by all this "you'll never guess what's about to happen!" BS that seems to drive Marvel/DC these days. I want excitement that will make me want to turn the page, not play a guessing game for a month before the next issue hits. Also the pc who is a secret doppleganger is a happy side effect of having a character wanting to switch from a dragonborn paladin to an eladrin swordmage. Nice! That works out really well!
#8 jack_of_all_trades_02 Aug 28, 2008 15:39:45	I've been disapointed with the main book so far as well. I mean the first book just exploded out of the gate. I have however been enjoying New and Mighty Avengers. Plus Mariah Hill got some face time. I'm biased in the fact that ever since that episode of New Avengers where she strapped on those rocket boots, grabbed that gun, and said something like "What? When Fury was in charge he used to pull s**t like this all the time." As far as my story goes, I'm going to send my players are going to meet Cain I, get all the information on the first invasion and be sent on a mission to retrieve a secret weapon to reveal their true forms.
#9 graddlin Aug 31, 2008 16:14:47	Hey, pal. I decided to run these ideas by you in the hopes that they might get the gears turning. Enjoy. You could slightly change the physiology of the Dopplleganger. Perhaps they cannot stand the smell of their dead and will flee an area containing a corpse of one of their own. Perhaps the shapchanging ability of the Doppleganger is autonomic (reflexive); if the characters bring the fresh bone of a Doppleganger close to a living Doppleganger, perhaps the mental resonance of the living Doppleganger will cause the bone (flesh, brains, whatever you want) to warp and change slightly. This could all play into a "Hive Mind" scenario for you invasion; the thoughts of one Doppleganger could cause change in another and vice versa. Perhaps one of the Dopplegangers is raging against the invasion (he/she wants his/her race to live in peace with others) and, though it will cost the lives of many of the more ruthless members of his/her race, he/she is willing to divuldge the secrets of knowing how to identify a morphed member of the Doppleganger race. Take care, friend.
#10 drackthor Aug 31, 2008 22:15:15	Perhaps one of the Dopplegangers is raging against the invasion (he/she wants his/her race to live in peace with others) and, though it will cost the lives of many of the more ruthless members of his/her race, he/she is willing to divuldge the secrets of knowing how to identify a morphed member of the Doppleganger race. Take care, friend. Taking this even further, maybe they know he's willing to give the information up, and it becomes a race against the clock for each side to get to the informant before the other does, one side needs him to beat back the invasion, while the other needs to prevent him from divulging crucial information.