Conceptual idea:
The dragonbone blade is a weapon made from the shards of a dragon’s skeleton. They carry the inherent magical property of the dragon from which they were made, carried in the marrow of the bone. The marrow needs blood to stimulate the magic. The item is up to +4 to hit (Young +2, Adult +3, Elder +4, Ancient +5). The damage enhancement starts at +0 and increases +2 for each hit after damage is applied up to a maximum of +10 (+6 for Young, +7 Adult, +8 Elder, Ancient +10). On a roll of 5 or lower on the initial hit in a combat will cause the blade to splinter and break. Each successive hit decreases the chance of breakage as it increases in damage.
I recognize the damage increase and breakage chance makes it a little cumbersome, but I can't think of any easier way to implement that concept.
Item stat block:
Drgonbone Weapon
Dragonbone Weapon Level 9+
The magical power of the blood of the dragon infuses this weapon with its might.
Young....... Lvl 9..........+2.....4,200 gp
Adult........ Lvl 14........ +3.....21,000 gp
Elder........ Lvl 19........ +4.....105,000 gp
Ancient..... Lvl 28........ +5.....2,125,000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls (special)
Critical: +1d10 damage per plus of attack bonus.
Property: This weapon starts out with a +0 enhancement bonus to damage rolls and increases by 2 for each successive hit in an encounter after damage is applied up to a maximum of +10 (+6 for Young, +7 Adult, +8 Elder, +10 Ancient). However, until blood fuels the weapon’s magic it is more fragile. For the first attack made with the weapon in an encounter, on a roll of 5 or less, the weapon breaks and is irrevocably lost. This breakage chance decreases by the same amount of the damage bonus increase. The weapon resets during a short rest. If a dragon is damaged with this weapon it immediately increases to its full potential with no breakage chance for that encounter.
The magical power of the blood of the dragon infuses this weapon with its might.
Young....... Lvl 9..........+2.....4,200 gp
Adult........ Lvl 14........ +3.....21,000 gp
Elder........ Lvl 19........ +4.....105,000 gp
Ancient..... Lvl 28........ +5.....2,125,000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls (special)
Critical: +1d10 damage per plus of attack bonus.
Property: This weapon starts out with a +0 enhancement bonus to damage rolls and increases by 2 for each successive hit in an encounter after damage is applied up to a maximum of +10 (+6 for Young, +7 Adult, +8 Elder, +10 Ancient). However, until blood fuels the weapon’s magic it is more fragile. For the first attack made with the weapon in an encounter, on a roll of 5 or less, the weapon breaks and is irrevocably lost. This breakage chance decreases by the same amount of the damage bonus increase. The weapon resets during a short rest. If a dragon is damaged with this weapon it immediately increases to its full potential with no breakage chance for that encounter.
No +1 should be above 5th level. If you can't balance for that try again please.
it's not a +1. it's a +1/+6.
That being said, try offering some advice regarding that issue.
actually pigknight was right
the +1 version of this weapon is listed as a level 8 item, but +1 versions are lvl1-lvl5 only
also, the breakage chance kinda doesnt go with the 4th ed mindset. Its the rust monster all over again. I would change it so that on a natural one(any role, not just the first per encounter) the damage bonus resets to +1 and cannot increase for the rest of the encounter
for the weapon levels, i would go
lvl 4--- +1
lvl 8--- +2
lvl 12-- +3
lvl 16--+4
lvl 20-- +5
lvl 24-- +6
lvl 28-- +7
ummm,
actually pigknight was right
the +1 version of this weapon is listed as a level 8 item, but +1 versions are lvl1-lvl5 only
also, the breakage chance kinda doesnt go with the 4th ed mindset. Its the rust monster all over again. I would change it so that on a natural one(any role, not just the first per encounter) the damage bonus resets to +1 and cannot increase for the rest of the encounter
for the weapon levels, i would go
lvl 4--- +1
lvl 8--- +2
lvl 12-- +3
lvl 16--+4
lvl 20-- +5
lvl 24-- +6
lvl 28-- +7
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I know the PHB shows the table that indicates the level basis for each enhancement bonus of magic items (which is what the pig was referring to, and not helpful in and of itself). However, the concept of this item doesn't follow that guideline because the bonus to damage rolls is different than the bonus to attack rolls. The PHB table doesn't account for that since 4e doesn't do that (thus far).
It's a little different than rust monster because that is something entirely in the province of the DM to introduce and cause an impediment to the characters. The concept here is a choice for the character, not something he has to decide to run away from or risk losing all his awesome stuff.
That being said, I like you idea for resetting it on a 'critical fumble' so to speak. I'd prefer a much bigger chance, and a more severe punishment, but maybe that's not in the cards. It's that kind of thing I'm looking for though so that I can consider alternate options that might help me rethink the design.
You're level based bonus table - are you suggesting that to be based on the weapon's attack bonus or potential damage bonus? I'm assuming damage, since the attack bonus doesn't go up that high, and there are no +6, or +7 attack bonuses in 4e (thus far), but my damage bonuses also increase more than what you have indicated as well.
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I know the PHB shows the table that indicates the level basis for each enhancement bonus of magic items (which is what the pig was referring to, and not helpful in and of itself). However, the concept of this item doesn't follow that guideline because the bonus to damage rolls is different than the bonus to attack rolls. The PHB table doesn't account for that since 4e doesn't do that (thus far).
It's a little different than rust monster because that is something entirely in the province of the DM to introduce and cause an impediment to the characters. The concept here is a choice for the character, not something he has to decide to run away from or risk losing all his awesome stuff.
That being said, I like you idea for resetting it on a 'critical fumble' so to speak. I'd prefer a much bigger chance, and a more severe punishment, but maybe that's not in the cards. It's that kind of thing I'm looking for though so that I can consider alternate options that might help me rethink the design.
You're level based bonus table - are you suggesting that to be based on the weapon's attack bonus or potential damage bonus? I'm assuming damage, since the attack bonus doesn't go up that high, and there are no +6, or +7 attack bonuses in 4e (thus far), but my damage bonuses also increase more than what you have indicated as well.
1) Why am I "the pig"? Either Pig or Pigknight, or even Pig knight.
2) The way it boosts is very weird. I would personally make it so that it can boost up to +3~5 extra damage after swinging. Increaing attack is A LOT MORE IMPORTANT IN 4E!
3) Also it better not break or it will be utterly useless.
4) Lower to +1d6 crit.
5) Remove the anti-dragon part.
1) Why am I "the pig"? Either Pig or Pigknight, or even Pig knight.
2) The way it boosts is very weird. I would personally make it so that it can boost up to +3~5 extra damage after swinging. Increaing attack is A LOT MORE IMPORTANT IN 4E!
3) Also it better not break or it will be utterly useless.
4) Lower to +1d6 crit.
5) Remove the anti-dragon part.
Didn't know 'the pig' would be so offensive. Seriously, wasn't intended. It would be like referring to TBP as 'the pherret'.
The way it boosts is VERY weird - that's intended. It does boost damage, not attack. The different attack values are based on the different versions of the weapon.
True, breaking would make it useless. But it's a pretty powerful item because of the increasing damage values, isn't it? The breakage factor is more about fluff from Draconomicon that I wanted to try to keep consistent with which talks about the bones becoming very brittle after the dragon dies. I'd love for more options to convey that.
Why lower the crit value? It's supposed to be a very powerful item with one very significant drawback (the breakage).
The last part isn't inherently anti-dragon. Again, it's in reference to the Draconomicon fluff. The blood is the source of the dragon's magic (and so is the marrow, which is why the boneblade works at all), and since it would be re-sourced to that magic blood, it works better because of it. Essentially the increasing damage is about having the marrow start producing the 'magic cells' with which it infused the dragon's blood when it was alive. So to introduce already magically enhanced blood to it effectively 'wakes' it up fully.
I actually added that part after developing the item to what I thought was completion. I'm not adverse to removing it, but I'd like some reasoning here (again, like with the crit lowering). In other words, when discussing design, it's more helpful to note the 'whys' moreso than the 'whats.'
Didn't know 'the pig' would be so offensive. Seriously, wasn't intended. It would be like referring to TBP as 'the pherret'.
It's not that offensive, it's just annoying :P.
The way it boosts is VERY weird - that's intended. It does boost damage, not attack. The different attack values are based on the different versions of the weapon.
The way it currently is, it boosts attack and damage. Just use the normal +1~6 thing using the high end of the tier (5th, 10th, 15th, ect.) and increases by +1 damage per hit.
True, breaking would make it useless. But it's a pretty powerful item because of the increasing damage values, isn't it? The breakage factor is more about fluff from Draconomicon that I wanted to try to keep consistent with which talks about the bones becoming very brittle after the dragon dies. I'd love for more options to convey that.
Fluff smuff, a 25% break chance at the start of combat can cripple you. Random =/= good. I would leave that bit of fluff out, the next thing the fighter needs is his weapon to snap in his hands.
Why lower the crit value? It's supposed to be a very powerful item with one very significant drawback (the breakage).
As stated above the breaking is bad. But the whole crit. thing is mostly balance for the increased damage.
The last part isn't inherently anti-dragon. Again, it's in reference to the Draconomicon fluff. The blood is the source of the dragon's magic (and so is the marrow, which is why the boneblade works at all), and since it would be re-sourced to that magic blood, it works better because of it. Essentially the increasing damage is about having the marrow start producing the 'magic cells' with which it infused the dragon's blood when it was alive. So to introduce already magically enhanced blood to it effectively 'wakes' it up fully. I actually added that part after developing the item to what I thought was completion. I'm not adverse to removing it, but I'd like some reasoning here (again, like with the crit lowering).
We already have an anti-dragon weapon. Also, what if it's a different kind of dragon? Can't have you mixing A+ and B-. :P
In other words, when discussing design, it's more helpful to note the 'whys' moreso than the 'whats.'
I keep forgetting some people don't recognize me as one of the few guys that already knew how to balance stuff after 4e came out. :P
It's not that
The way it currently is, it boosts attack and damage. Just use the normal +1~6 thing using the high end of the tier (5th, 10th, 15th, ect.) and increases by +1 damage per hit.
Fluff smuff, a 25% break chance at the start of combat can cripple you. Random =/= good. I would leave that bit of fluff out, the next thing the fighter needs is his weapon to snap in his hands.
As stated above the breaking is bad. But the whole crit. thing is mostly balance for the increased damage.
We already have an anti-dragon weapon. Also, what if it's a different kind of dragon? Can't have you mixing A+ and B-. :P
I keep forgetting some people don't recognize me as one of the few guys that already knew how to balance stuff after 4e came out. :P
Please reread the weapon text. It only boosts damage. Please trust me on this, I wrote it.
I also just reread it to ensure that I didn't make a mistake or that it was ambiguous or confusing. It doesn't appear so.I agree about the break issue being bad bamen. I've already started rethinking that. And as such, that also makes the crit issue required of reconsideration. I've also been running it past my players and wanting to see if it would be something they'd even want as a result of the breakage, so I'm looking at it from that angle too.
The whole mixing blood types/dragon types is irrelevant to the magic inherent to the blood of all dragons. It's also why it works with blood from anyone, not just dragons.
While I don't recognize you as anyone (I've never really seen any of your posts before now), it seems more like you are skimming what I've written instead of reading and considering it. Regardless, even if you were someone I'd recognize, I'd still want to know the reasoning so that I can consider the issue more fully and make a determination as to its validity but also other possibilities to correct the issue of note.
I think I've also decided to up the attack bonus by one per age category while leaving the level base the same. Not only does that allow for it to follow the PHB table, but it brings the Ancient version up to the +5 bonus maximum.
Also what's the +6 bonus gonna be called then?
No. Please.
We've advanced past the point of randomly punishing players for using things for THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.
I just reread it AND HOLY CRAPS THAT'S A CRAPTON OF BONUS DAMAGE BATMAN!
Also what's the +6 bonus gonna be called then?
+6? I still don't think you're reading it right. BTW - I revised the attack bonuses and lowered the crit. Dmg increases by 2 per hit now, which means crit fail chance goes down faster. Still thinking about whole breakage issue.
Maybe this will clear it up more:
+2 attack bonus is from a Young Dragon. It has a maximum damage bonus of +6.
+3 attack bonus is from a Adult Dragon. It has a maximum damage bonus of +7.
+4 attack bonus is from a Elder Dragon. It has a maximum damage bonus of +8.
+5 attack bonus is from an Ancient Dragon. It has a max dmg bonus of +10.
All start out with a +0 damage bonus and (now) damage bonus increases by 2 for every hit. Attack bonus does NOT increase.
Random weapon loss...
No. Please.
We've advanced past the point of randomly punishing players for using things for THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.
It's not about randomly punishing players - that's more akin to your namesake. The Rust Monster was all about DM correction. It was used when the DM realized he's given out too much loot and the chars were too powerful. This is inherent to the item itself, so that factor isn't applicable. It's INTENT is to have the major drawback. I'm very open to discussion about how to do that though, assuming the breakage is considered to be so overwhelmingly bad. Think of it more as a potentially expendable item.
It's not about randomly punishing players - that's more akin to your namesake. The Rust Monster was all about DM correction. It was used when the DM realized he's given out too much loot and the chars were too powerful. This is inherent to the item itself, so that factor isn't applicable. It's INTENT is to have the major drawback. I'm very open to discussion about how to do that though, assuming the breakage is considered to be so overwhelmingly bad. Think of it more as a potentially expendable item.
Then no one will buy it.
Also weapons get a +1~6 bonus at attack and damage rolls.
And get rid of the breaking factor totally. It's a bad idea. Pure and simple.
Don't balance weapons by giving them great power, but making it so they canbecome useless randomly, that's bad design.
Young....... Lvl 9..........+2.....4,200 gp
Adult........ Lvl 14........ +3.....21,000 gp
Elder........ Lvl 19........ +4.....105,000 gp
Ancient..... Lvl 28........ +5.....2,125,000 gp
Baring the rest (mulling it over, wanted to get this out before I forget).
9/14/19/24/28
+2/+3/+4/+5/+6
Level 25-30 is +6
The magical power of the blood of the dragon infuses this weapon with its might.
Weapon: Axe, Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear
Why not a flail? Bone flails are common tropes in fantasy.
Property: This weapon starts out with a +0 enhancement bonus to damage rolls and increases by 2 for each successive hit in an encounter after damage is applied up to a maximum of +10 (+6 for Young, +7 Adult, +8 Elder, +10 Ancient). However, until blood fuels the weapon’s magic it is more fragile. For the first attack made with the weapon in an encounter, on a roll of 5 or less, the weapon breaks and is irrevocably lost.
This ruins the weapon, well the second part, a weapon with 25% chance to break on the first swing will eventually break. If you want it to work this way make it a bone shard, and make it consumable.
I would also suggest changing from +6/+7/+8/+10 to +4/+5/+6/+7. And when tied into my above posts +4/+5/+6/+7/+8.
And change from Young/Adult/Elder/Ancient to +2/3/4/5/6