When I looked at the stat bonuses I saw both had 2 cha so that breed through so to speak. I was torn on what to do with the str and int so went with a 1 bonus to each instead of a 2 to either. On racial abilities again i was torn so decided to mix. Draconic is the language they start with and LLV. I figured rather than limit it I would let the players choose wich side of thier heritage was more dominant so racial wise there is an option either the dragonborn attack boost or the tiefling one then between the dragonborn attack and the tiefling one. Finally for the third racial it is determined by wich attack you take. I figured the attack would be the biggest of the racial abilities so depending on wich attack you choose would affect the final ability the healing surge buff or the resist that way you couldnt have all the racials from one race or the other would have to be a mix. The best way i could think to tie it in was giving the tiefling attack the surge boost and the dragonborn the resist boost BUT tie the resist boost into the dragonbreath choice rather than straight fire. Meaning if you chose lightning breath you got lightning resist and so on.
Sound good? any ideas on ways to improve? and what should i call it?
Dragonling
Dragontief
Tiefborn
Tiefdragon
None of them sound right to me. any ideas on that?
A write up on my character's personal history you mean?
That, and a statistical write-up on the race itself.
From your first post, however, it is clear that you have not adequately studied the math of 4e, nor the manner in which races are constructed.
Presented with this idea as a DM I would almost certainly veto it. Fortunately I am not your DM.
While I look to encourage creativity in my players, and while it is clear you are excited about this prospect, I question the viability of this within the bounds of the world your group has created.
Foremost among these:
1. Dragonborn are oviparous (egg-laying). Tieflings, being descended from humans, presumably give birth to live young in the manner of humans. Presumably this means that interbreeding is impossible, even if "all the parts line up," so to speak.
2. Tieflings are true-breeding race despite their origins, and while they are capable of interbreeding with humans, the offspring is always completely human or completely tiefling. There are no "half-tieflings." The curse is either passed on through the blood, resulting in a tiefling child, or it is not, giving human young.
You are free to do your write-up and run it through these forums for critique, but ultimately it is not us you must convince, but your DM.
i kept the same number of abilities and bonuses in order to keep it from becoming to powerful.
where do i find info on creating a pc race?
as for compatable features sure the dragons lay eggs but they do still need to be fertilized so there has to be Some sort of Interaction there.
Basically im looking for to learn how to do this sorta thing and thought it could be done by simply altering a few key points like with creating a similar monster from an existing template.
Any tips yall can give would be appreciated.
As for the true breeding Tieflings do breed true with humans wich is what they are genetically if ya want to get real technical just with demonic genes as well. With a dragonborn its a totally different ball of wax and the mixing rather than one winning out would be a reasonable possibility.
Got me to thinking of what a mix between my dragonborn warlord and his tiefling would be like wich led to the combining of the 2. i figured since would be a mix of 2 current races the best way to go would be to just mix the 2 base templates up using some from each side so to speak.
As for the character itself, my basic idea was that My character was from a medium sized town with mixed populace and Mommy dearest was gotten drunk and misused by a tiefling that was bet he couldn't get the dragon to go for a roll in the stables. Well however much later out pops a funny colored egg a bit smaller than the norm. Brother was only 2 years old so mom and dad were still together meaning she broke the vows dishonoring herself and the family. She volunteered to lead a foray against a cult that had desecrated an old church and started raising the bodies in order to restore her honor. She managed to take out the deathknight leading them but was mortally wounded in doing so. My character was brought up and trained as best as could be but always treated as a bit of an outsider by everyone but his brother. The family had a long tradition of bounty hunters in it each father crafting a special set of manacles for his children to use if they took up the life but for obvious reasons my character's didn't. At 15 he ran away without saying anything but returned a bit over 2 years later with a polished tiefling skull wich he presented to his foster-father letting him know that the one that brought dishonor to the family was taken care of and the details behind what happened. For this he was accepted into the family and his father forged him a set of manacles inset with 2 canine teeth from the skull one on each manacle. The skull itself was hung on the door as a trophy which did cause a bit of a stir and some trouble but his father refused to take it down.
I am thinking of having his brother. My dragonborn warlord killed and him joining the party to help bring the killer down.
what did i do wrong?
Can't really tell since there's no race write up but...
i kept the same number of abilities and bonuses in order to keep it from becoming to powerful.
And I'm Santa. Spliting a +2 into two +1s is not correct race design. You have to pick two abilities to give +2 to. I'd personally go with +2 Con, +2 Cha. And I couldn't really understand the racial power and abilities.
where do i find info on creating a pc race?
DMG and PHB.
as for compatable features sure the dragons lay eggs but they do still need to be fertilized so there has to be Some sort of Interaction there.
Have sex with a lizard and tell me what happens. Sperm from a mammilian cannot fertilize an egg from an egg-layerer. (I forgot my terminology so bear with me.)
Basically im looking for to learn how to do this sorta thing and thought it could be done by simply altering a few key points like with creating a similar monster from an existing template.
It can, but not the way you did it.
Any tips yall can give would be appreciated.
How about not double posting. :P
As for the true breeding Tieflings do breed true with humans wich is what they are genetically if ya want to get real technical just with demonic genes as well. With a dragonborn its a totally different ball of wax and the mixing rather than one winning out would be a reasonable possibility.
It would more likely be a humanborn...or whatever it's called.
And yeah, you need to make a stat-block for it like the races in the books have.
As for the stat split i can understand why not 2 plus ones but how does constitution figure as a bonus from str int and cha from the parent races?
as for a write up of the race itself i dont see what the problem is as i put everything that was in the block just in a paragraph form as i dont have my books handy to see the exact wording. the racial abilities a mix of the 2 races racial abilities. BUT since having it posted in a certain format is the only way ill apparently get a real response ill work on that.
And where in the player handbook does it say how to create a new race? I dont remember seeing that anywhere.
What double post? i see seperate individual posts i see no repeat posts. if by double you mean twice in a row. thats 2 distinctly seperate posts one with more questions one with the asked for write up done seperately for clarity if thats gonna be an issue to pick at me for perhaps i made the wrong decision coming here to ask for help and advice.
Two non-bump posts back-to-back bug me. It's not a major issue. BTW I was joking, I even had a smiley. I'm sorry if I insulted you. Have a cookie (>^o^)>
As for the stat split i can understand why not 2 plus ones but how does constitution figure as a bonus from str int and cha from the parent races?
Half-breeds have +2 con...mostly from the half-elf presedent.
as for a write up of the race itself i dont see what the problem is as i put everything that was in the block just in a paragraph form as i dont have my books handy to see the exact wording. the racial abilities a mix of the 2 races racial abilities. BUT since having it posted in a certain format is the only way ill apparently get a real response ill work on that.
Hard as hell to read mostly.
And where in the player handbook does it say how to create a new race? I dont remember seeing that anywhere.
Like making a custom class, when working with custom races you have to study the races, become one with the races, and feel how the races are made. Good homebrews are an art. Bad homebrews are abitrary. Meh homebrew are a science.
Also you didn't double post in the above post.
I did if I say i did our times are both 2:44 NYAHH
Im not trying to be contentious just to be clear ya pointed out a problem that you saw and I was just pointing out my view on it.
I am working on a write up right now looking at other posts to see how the block goes.
By the way what is this peach stuff i keep seeing the posts having mentioned? We just started playing with 4E my wife for first time me first since OLD DnD. So i don't recognize the term.
Oh and i know i should have 2 plus 2's not the plus ones like now but thats what my gm said when i asked her on the stat bonuses. Rather than lean one way or the other just split them.
Dragontief
Medium Natural Humanoid
Racial Traits
Average Height: 5'8" - 6'4"
Average Weight: 175 - 250 lbs.
____________________
Ability Scores: +1 Intelligence, +1 Strength, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light
____________________
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Intimidate
Born of an unlikely couple the rare mixing of dragonborn and tiefling blood leaves a being with no true attachment to either race. The rare dragontief or tiefborn depending on who you ask tends to lean slightly to one side of thier heritage or the other. The abilities of an individual depend on which side is dominant the being displaying slightly more of one races attributes than the other.
Choose Dragon dominant or Tief dominant
Dragon Dominant
Dragon Breath
You get the Dragon Breath encounter ability. Choose breath type at creation.
Choose Str Con or Dex as your attack bonus at creation as well
Dragonborn Fury
When bloodied get +1 to attack rolls
Resistance
Gain resist that matches your breath type. +5 plus one half your level (You only gain resistance to your original breath type Adaptable Breath feat does not affect this.)
Tief Dominant
Bloodhunt you get +1 to attack rolls against bloodied targets
Infernal Wrath
You gain infernal wrath encounter power
Draconic Heritage
Your healing surge value is equal to one quarter your HP plus your con mod.
Born of an unlikely couple the rare mixing of dragonborn and tiefling blood leaves a being with no true attachment to either race.
That sounds like it's created in a test tube... o.O And those names are just terrible... you need something that rolls off the tongue a little better, yet is still cheesy. Something like "Darkscale"... hehe
But what about the race layout itself?
Also, DO NOT SPLIT UP THE ABILITY BONUS PICK ONE. And it is totaly uncreative. It's just a reskinned teifling or dragonborn. Make it unique.
For a name I would suggest either darkborn, or felborn even
As for the race skills I would (agreeing with pigknight) not advice the choice, but make a mixture, because remember, like you said in the class analysis its a race with no real ties to either race, so you don't want skills in common.
Ability Scores
+2 Constitution +2 Charisma
Racial Skills
Racial Outcast
You get a +1 to defence rolls when you have no allies adjacent to you
Molten Scales
You can use molten scale as an encounter spell
spoiler
Molten Talon
Your internal body temperature rises, your blood flow increasing; your scale become superheated, anyone touching you becomes scalded
Encounter # Fire
Minor Action Personal
Attack:Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit:1d6 + Charisma modifier fire damage
Increase to +4 and 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 11th level and +6 and 3d6 +Charisma modifier at 21st level
Effect: Any enemy that starts their turn in a square adjacent to you takes an attack.
Your internal body temperature rises, your blood flow increasing; your scale become superheated, anyone touching you becomes scalded
Encounter # Fire
Minor Action Personal
Attack:Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit:1d6 + Charisma modifier fire damage
Increase to +4 and 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 11th level and +6 and 3d6 +Charisma modifier at 21st level
Effect: Any enemy that starts their turn in a square adjacent to you takes an attack.
Yes, pick two abilities and increase by 2. Kinda balanaces the class to the other classes.
I like the skills you picked for them: Stealth and Intimidate. Their freakish nature is scary and mighty intimidaten, and it's also cause to stick to the shadows.
I would, as Demi has done, pick one set of abilities and use that. Giving players a choice...well...it's kinda unfair to the guy/gal who picks elf, you get me? I would attempt to sort of combine them a bit. For more on this, click the spoiler below.
Show
I like the resist ability, keep that as is. You can even explain it as "the dark tiefling powers and elemental powers mixed oddly, so that your breath weapon makes you resistant to its own self" or something like that. As for the other two...kinda in your hands.
I kinda like the theme of "when bloodied, +1" theme for the second ability, as both tiefling and dragonborn have this ability shared to some extent.
The third idea...I'm kinda liking the idea of some "dark roar" encounter power, maybe like a necrotic breath weapon that has some secondary minor effect, at the cost of less range.
I kinda like the theme of "when bloodied, +1" theme for the second ability, as both tiefling and dragonborn have this ability shared to some extent.
The third idea...I'm kinda liking the idea of some "dark roar" encounter power, maybe like a necrotic breath weapon that has some secondary minor effect, at the cost of less range.
I would, as Demi has done, pick one set of abilities and use that. Giving players a choice...well...it's kinda unfair to the guy/gal who picks elf, you get me? I would attempt to sort of combine them a bit.
thanks for the compliments.
The reason I gave them a choice is based on the dragonborn's breath weapon, but I decided to make the choice changeable because you have to be bloodied to gain it; although admittedly I was worried about the same thing that it might become a bit abused, someone could become bloodied on purpose just to gain the resistance and then heal themselves.
Have sex with a lizard and tell me what happens.
Dragonborn are mammals.
What did yall think about the character background for my particular character?
Honestly I knew it needed work thats why i brought it here heh. I knew it could have been a Lot better.
Shadowborn
Medium Natural Humanoid
Racial Traits
Average Height: 5'8" - 6'4"
Average Weight: 175 - 250 lbs.
____________________
Ability Scores: +1 Intelligence, +1 Strength, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light
____________________
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Intimidate
Born of an unlikely coupling, the rare mixing of dragonborn and tiefling leaves a being with no true attachment to either race. The rare creature born of this coupling is the Shadowborn, named such do to their preference to remain unnoticed and that the mix of demonic and draconic blood gives them an affinity with the shadows.
Racial Outcast
You get a +1 to defence rolls when you have no allies adjacent to you and are considered both dragonborn and tiefling for feat selection.
Corrupted Breath
Once per encounter you may use the Corrupted Breath power. Special (This counts as dragon breath for feat purposes.)
Corrupted Breath
Your eyes flicker darkly as you throw back your head and roar shadow pouring from your maw. The shadow writhes with your anger seeking to wrap itself around the enemies caught in its blast and choke the life from them.
Encounter # Shadow
Minor Action Close Blast 3
Attack:Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit:1d6 + Charisma modifier Shadow damage
Increase to +4 and 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 11th level and +6 and 3d6 +Charisma modifier at 21st level
Dragonborn are mammals.
Well then freak platypus.
Well then freak platypus.
Hmmm mix a platypus and a dragonborn maybe?
Or just a humanoid platypus? give him like a swim speed and and able to stay underwater a lot longer than normal?
Racial Outcast
You get a +1 to defence rolls when you have no allies adjacent to you and are considered both dragonborn and tiefling for feat selection.
Corrupted Breath
Once per encounter you may use the Corrupted Breath power. Special (This counts as dragon breath for feat purposes.)
Corrupted Breath
Your eyes flicker darkly as you throw back your head and roar shadow pouring from your maw. The shadow writhes with your anger seeking to wrap itself around the enemies caught in its blast and choke the life from them.
Encounter # Shadow
Minor Action Close Blast 3
Attack:Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit:1d6 + Charisma modifier Shadow damage
Increase to +4 and 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 11th level and +6 and 3d6 +Charisma modifier at 21st level
I'm begining to like this hybrid race, though i think this most recent write up is missing a little something, perhaps put some form or resistance back in?
BTW Shadow is a power source, not a damage type, i think what you're after is necrotic
Shadowborn
Medium Natural Humanoid
Racial Traits
Average Height: 5'8" - 6'4"
Average Weight: 175 - 250 lbs.
____________________
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light
____________________
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Intimidate
Born of an unlikely coupling, the rare mixing of dragonborn and tiefling leaves a being with no true attachment to either race. The rare creature born of this coupling is the Shadowborn, named such do to their preference to remain unnoticed and that the mix of demonic and draconic blood gives them an affinity with the shadows.
Racial Outcast
You get a +1 to defence rolls when you have no allies adjacent to you and are considered both dragonborn and tiefling for feat selection.
Corrupted Breath
Once per encounter you may use the Corrupted Breath power. Special (This counts as dragon breath for feat purposes.)
Corrupted Breath
Your eyes flicker darkly as you throw back your head and roar shadow pouring from your maw. The shadow writhes with your anger seeking to wrap itself around the enemies caught in its blast and choke the life from them.
Encounter # Necrotic
Minor Action Close Blast 3
Attack:Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit:1d6 + Charisma modifier Necrotic damage
Increase to +4 and 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 11th level and +6 and 3d6 +Charisma modifier at 21st level
Tainted Blood
You get a 5 + 1/2 level to resistance to Necrotic damage due to the corruption that flows through your veins
Now, one last suggestion, and this is optional and at your discretion. Personally, I would make the resistance either necrotic or fire, or make the resistance default at fire, and become something else only when the last attack that makes you first bloodied is of that type. Sorta makes it a little less tactical and more a racial ability.
Very good, though. Definitely a viable race so far that I may actually use for something in my game...with your permission of course.
I agree with leaving it straight necrotic...You can even explain it as somethin like "the powers that corrupted this race also protects it, as a loving father protects it's young"
I would also, in case of using a setting either published or designed, make it a rare offshoot...say, less than 1% of any given population, with the stipulation that they only appear in places with a truly mixed demoraphic and large towns or higher (unless the campaign calls for one to be somewhere, or used as a PC race, at your discretion). This creature showing up in a tiny town, though, will probably be cause for alarm, so when used as a PC race...have em buy a cloak, for Pelor's sake...
Oh, and gratz on balancing it, again. Your work is an inspiration and is viable...be proud of it :D
if ya go back to the first page you will see this characters background
And thanks wouldnt have been near as good without yalls help
Madam DM approved it and said it sounded pretty damn cool.
*waits for everyone to duck and cover*
Charisma doesn't seem right for the shadowborn i mean they are called shadow born for a reason and its not their sparkling personalities.
charisma
noun
a personal attractiveness or interestingness that enables you to influence others
Perhaps that should be something that would contribute more to the races survival like Intelligence or Dexterity?
And even look at what you wrote, its to do with attractiveness or interesting characteristics; I would say that a half breed dragonborn/tiefling fits that description.
Charisma is presence, its nothing to do with being nice, its to do with personality; think of House (hugh laurie, if you've ever watched it), a drug addict doctor but everyone still follows him and listens to him.
So I say stick with charisma.