Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nemit Jul 05, 2008 19:49:17	From what I can see, there is no way for a Dragonborn to get wings, no racial feats or anything of the sort. Yet there is a Dragonborn in the Monster Manual, the Dragonborn Raider, I believe, that has wings and can fly at 8 squares a round (clumsy). One of my Dragonborn players saw this picture and immediately wanted to have wings as well. I was thinking about making it an epic feat, or maybe a paragon path. Any thoughts?
#2 ericevans9377 Jul 05, 2008 22:41:07	The Fly wizard power is a daily power that requires a standard action each round to sustain throughout an encounter. I think giving dragonborns wings and allowing them to fly at will would be seriously unbalancing, but hey, as always it's up to your DM. Burning a feat might be a viable alternative to this problem, or allowing all Dragonborn characters access to the Fly wizard power at a much higher level for non-wizards would also be a solution, with the explanation for a daily power being that flying is incredibly tiring for Dragonborns. --Eric
#3 CelineSSauve Jul 06, 2008 9:24:11	Obviously it would need to take up the move action, either to move or to hover (hovering is hard). That means that if they decide to fly, they have only a Standard and Minor action to play with. They could, in theory, move twice and then use their breath weapon, but as that weapon's only 1/encounter it would limit that tactic. My question would be more outside of the battle. Strong enough Dragonborn can carry the party (one by one) over any gorge or obstacle.
#4 shamerton Jul 06, 2008 17:39:18	The Fly wizard power is a daily power that requires a standard action each round to sustain throughout an encounter. It's only a minor to sustain. A standard action would make it terrible beyond reason. Anyway, based somewhat on what Eric said, here's my suggestion. As a racial variant, they could lose Dragon Breath, and instead gain: Dragon Wings You call upon your heritage and beat your wings, allowing you to fly for a short distance. Daily Move Action - Personal Effect: You gain a speed of fly 8 (hover) Sustain Move: You can sustain this power until the end of the encounter, or for five minutes. In addition, include the following feats: Wings of the Ancients (Dragonborn) (Paragon) Prerequisites: Dragonborn, Dragon Wings racial feature Benefit: Your Dragon Wings ability becomes an encounter power. Flight of the Ancients (Dragonborn) (Epic) Prerequisites: Dragonborn, Dragon Wings racial feature, Wings of the Ancients Benefit: Your Dragon Wings ability becomes an at-will power that you can sustain as long as you like. Well, take what you will from this, I'm just rambling things off the top of my head.
#5 generalhenry Jul 07, 2008 3:03:23	Bah. There are zero racial dailies. one round hover flight or multiple rounds of clumsy flight as an encounter power.
#6 nemit Jul 07, 2008 20:21:00	It's only a minor to sustain. A standard action would make it terrible beyond reason. Anyway, based somewhat on what Eric said, here's my suggestion. As a racial variant, they could lose Dragon Breath, and instead gain: Dragon Wings You call upon your heritage and beat your wings, allowing you to fly for a short distance. Daily Move Action - Personal Effect: You gain a speed of fly 8 (hover) Sustain Move: You can sustain this power until the end of the encounter, or for five minutes. In addition, include the following feats: Wings of the Ancients (Dragonborn) (Paragon) Prerequisites: Dragonborn, Dragon Wings racial feature Benefit: Your Dragon Wings ability becomes an encounter power. Flight of the Ancients (Dragonborn) (Epic) Prerequisites: Dragonborn, Dragon Wings racial feature, Wings of the Ancients Benefit: Your Dragon Wings ability becomes an at-will power that you can sustain as long as you like. Well, take what you will from this, I'm just rambling things off the top of my head. I like it, but I also think that it would make a good encounter power instead. Maybe Dragonborn can fly for a little while before they get tired. Since it is replacing the Dragonborn breath weapon, maybe the number of rounds that they could stay aloft could be based ion their Str, Con, or Dex modifier like the breath weapon is based on. I was also thinking about creating a paragon path for dragonborn, much like the two paragon paths for the warforged. I have a few ideas for this, will post later.
#7 aluman Jul 08, 2008 12:21:49	Obviously it would need to take up the move action, either to move or to hover (hovering is hard). That means that if they decide to fly, they have only a Standard and Minor action to play with. They could, in theory, move twice and then use their breath weapon, but as that weapon's only 1/encounter it would limit that tactic. Fey lock Dragonborn with wings need only minor,standard to rain hell open their enemies while hovering.
#8 theninjad Jul 08, 2008 15:09:38	This kind of post has appeared before and I am currently thinking about how to do this, myself. It seems, though, that there is no way to give dragonborn (or anyone else, for that matter) the ability to fly at first level without it being broken in one way or another. Would it add flavor? Certainly! Does it matter if it's not perfectly balanced? Maybe, maybe not.
#9 generalhenry Jul 08, 2008 15:12:41	speed 6 overland flight it's nearly worthless, but balanced fine for first level play. (It doesn't really give you access to anything Eladrin teleport doesn't give you access to)
#10 theninjad Jul 09, 2008 0:11:46	Now that I've looked at it again, that may be about right.
#11 Xeviat-DM Jul 09, 2008 13:05:36	Any character can already get practically clumsy flight starting at level 16+; the flying carpet is a level 20 magic item, but you suffer a -4 penalty to a few things. That penalty is similar to the clumsy flight penalty in the DMG and Monster Manual. I made nearly similar feats for my setting's flying race (Valkyries), but I'm not entirely sure feats are the answer. Do you want Dragonborn wings to be something so common that any Epic Dragonborn could have them? Or do you want them to be something more rare? If you want them to be something rare, I would suggest making it a Racial Paragon Path (and before anyone says there are no racial paragon paths, look at the Warforged article in D&DI). Have the level 11 ability be an encounter flight power, and have the 16th level ability be a permanent clumsy flight; the encounter flight isn't clumsy, so it would still have advantages in combat. Clumsy flight is less a combat ability and more a mobility ability. But it has its values.
#12 sithraldor Jul 10, 2008 9:23:52	The only problem the see with the racial variant if the Dragonborn Champion still has a breath weapon. I would just make it a epic feat considering the champion is a epic monster.
#13 Xeviat-DM Jul 10, 2008 14:23:12	The only problem the see with the racial variant if the Dragonborn Champion still has a breath weapon. I would just make it a epic feat considering the champion is a epic monster. If you look at the point the classes get flight, longer duration flights start coming in around the 16th level range. This is also the time a magic item exists that anyone can use. I think the designers were very conscious about that level.
#14 penhall Jul 10, 2008 14:32:38	Just my initial thoughts on a couple of options. First, Dragonborn could be treated more like Draconians from Dragonlance. Spend a feat to have wings, that allow them to "glide" out and down, but no real flight ability. Basically you spend a feat to have the ability to freefall. Nice, but not game breaking. Second option, spend a feat to get wings. This involves an encounter power where you can fly a fixed move (6 to 8) once per encounter. Maybe treat it like Feystep in it's basic game mechanics. Optionally, you could add feats at Paragon and Epic levels to enhance this ability (haven't really thought that far ahead yet). Just some simple suggestions.
#15 tall_max Jul 10, 2008 15:43:52	They should be able to fly, but have their weight affect it. I mean, a Dragonborn in plate with a heavy two-handed axe shouldn't be able to cruise around as easy as a Dragonborn in cloth with a wooden stick.
#16 greatfrito Jul 10, 2008 16:05:16	Second option, spend a feat to get wings. This involves an encounter power where you can fly a fixed move (6 to 8) once per encounter. Maybe treat it like Feystep in it's basic game mechanics. Optionally, you could add feats at Paragon and Epic levels to enhance this ability (haven't really thought that far ahead yet). Just some simple suggestions. I did something similar for my take on 4E Aasimar (shameless plug). You can look over here (4E Aasimar) for the racial power, and then the feats.
#17 serphet Jul 10, 2008 16:12:07	it should be noted that its the Dragonborn champion (not rider) that has wings, and he is also an epic creature (level 26). Notably this is the same creature that has resist acid,cold,fire,lightning, and poison at 30 My thoughts are that it (wings) should be an epic racial feat.
#18 sithraldor Jul 11, 2008 8:42:38	it should be noted that its the Dragonborn champion (not rider) that has wings, and he is also an epic creature (level 26). Notably this is the same creature that has resist acid,cold,fire,lightning, and poison at 30 My thoughts are that it (wings) should be an epic racial feat. No offense but I said that like 5 posts ago. The only problem the see with the racial variant if the Dragonborn Champion still has a breath weapon. I would just make it a epic feat considering the champion is a epic monster.