Possibly they might have +2 str +2 Dex/con. They would have speed 5, and darkvision. Then sickening miasma as a encounter power that lasts save ends and has scaling up poison damage via the same damage generation used for a paladins mark damage. 3+desired stat at heroic teir, then 6+ stat at paragon, ect. Though that seems a bit much for a racial power. But there would be no feats for it so that might have it be balanced.
Also i was thinking of bringing back stinking cloud from 3.5 and simply have it have the same effect as vile death. It would last until end of next turn, 2 turns at paragon and 4 at epic maybe and deal the usual, 5/10/15 scaling poison damage. Might have a feat that has it last longer or increases the burst range. I might look at some of the drow darkness cloud feats or dragons breath feats for simular effects, like it might give concealment or what have you.
So what do you think guys and gals?
Consider a few of things.
The Aura reduces the effectiveness of any Adjacent based teamwork. I say keep it the same, as flavor. It has a cost, relative to it's benefit.
Same with the Vile Death ability. Death / Zero hit points for PCs is a little different than for Monsters.
So follow this chain of events:
Dretch brought to 0 hit points and Vile Death activates.
Cleric thinks "hey I should go Heal check the Dretch so's the Second Wind triggers"
Then Cleric thinks "nope I can't do that for a couple of rounds"
Vile Death reduces the effectiveness of any Zero hit point based party healing help, or death save help.
I say keep it the same, as flavor. It has a cost, relative to it's benefit.
As you already noticed, neither scales up at level 11 or 21.
DMG2 Companion Characters if dretch qualified, wouldn't lose either of those two things.
(linky) ---> www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
Lastly, the Encounter based Frenzy and Resist abilities are kinda on par with say a Doppelgangers abilities. Or any other Races 2 encounter abilities.
Convert it straight up ... those are my "feelings" on the idea.
I think you are on the right track.
Consider a few of things.
The Aura reduces the effectiveness of any Adjacent based teamwork. I say keep it the same, as flavor. It has a cost, relative to it's benefit.
Same with the Vile Death ability. Death / Zero hit points for PCs is a little different than for Monsters.
So follow this chain of events:
Dretch brought to 0 hit points and Vile Death activates.
Cleric thinks "hey I should go Heal check the Dretch so's the Second Wind triggers"
Then Cleric thinks "nope I can't do that for a couple of rounds"
Vile Death reduces the effectiveness of any Zero hit point based party healing help, or death save help.
I say keep it the same, as flavor. It has a cost, relative to it's benefit.
As you already noticed, neither scales up at level 11 or 21.
DMG2 Companion Characters if dretch qualified, wouldn't lose either of those two things.
(linky) ---> www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
Lastly, the Encounter based Frenzy and Resist abilities are kinda on par with say a Doppelgangers abilities. Or any other Races 2 encounter abilities.
Convert it straight up ... those are my "feelings" on the idea.
Thanks for the suggestions but i think keeping it vanilla would be a little much for keeping it balanced and not a massive hinderence to everything around it. Maybe if i organize things right I could compare its existing abilites with others and tweak it here and there.
The variable resistance has to be changed into a encounter minor action, along with being scaled up and vile death would have to scale up but might be able to keep the mechanic as is. Frenzy seems a bit much and might just be taken out or worded differently in a big way. The aura's kinda scary mainly because i havn't seen any other race with anything closely resembling it.
So here's my new big question, what should i do with frenzied claws/swipes and the dretches aura?
So here's my new big question, what should i do with frenzied claws/swipes and the dretches aura?
Nothing. Frenzied claws is more of an "artificial" additon to help the dretch fight/threaten multiple PCs at once. And no race should get an aura. So... drop them both.
If you absolutely must keep them for flavor... still drop the Frenzied Claws thing. It's really not a falvor issue, nor or is it an appropriate mechanic. BUT ... here's the Aura:
Sickening Miasma: As a dretch, you can use the Sickening Miasma racial power once per encounter.
Sickening Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: ABILITY +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + ABILITY modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Fortitude [???] as the ability to use when making this attack.
. . . What?
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Fortitude [???] as the ability to use when making this attack.
. . . What?
LOL Fixed.
It was a long night...
So here's my new big question, what should i do with frenzied claws/swipes and the dretches aura?
Nothing. Frenzied claws is more of an "artificial" additon to help the dretch fight/threaten multiple PCs at once. And no race should get an aura. So... drop them both.
If you absolutely must keep them for flavor... still drop the Frenzied Claws thing. It's really not a falvor issue, nor or is it an appropriate mechanic. BUT ... here's the Aura:
Sickening Miasma: As a dretch, you can use the Sickening Miasma racial power once per encounter.
Sickening Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: ABILITY +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + ABILITY modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
I'm tempted to change that move to the origional idea of taking damage for moving or attacking. Though just having the movement damage would make the dretch "sticky". I really like how you made the miasma power so what should i keep, the variable resistance power or the viledeath power? Vile death seems a little meh cause you have to go to 0 to use it, but minotaurs i think have a simular ability? Or is it orcs, i can't remember.
I'm tempted to change that move to the origional idea of taking damage for moving or attacking. Though just having the movement damage would make the dretch "sticky". I really like how you made the miasma power so what should i keep, the variable resistance power or the viledeath power? Vile death seems a little meh cause you have to go to 0 to use it, but minotaurs i think have a simular ability? Or is it orcs, i can't remember.
Drop Vile Death altogether. It's not necessary for flavor, especially with
Make the Variable Resistance like such:
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
It doesn't allow for EVERY resistance, and it's a little bit weaker than the standard racial resistance (which are 5 + 1/2 level), but that's countered by the flexibility of it.
I'm tempted to change that move to the origional idea of taking damage for moving or attacking. Though just having the movement damage would make the dretch "sticky". I really like how you made the miasma power so what should i keep, the variable resistance power or the viledeath power? Vile death seems a little meh cause you have to go to 0 to use it, but minotaurs i think have a simular ability? Or is it orcs, i can't remember.
Drop Vile Death altogether. It's not necessary for flavor, especially with
Make the Variable Resistance like such:
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
It doesn't allow for EVERY resistance, and it's a little bit weaker than the standard racial resistance (which are 5 + 1/2 level), but that's countered by the flexibility of it.
That sir is absurdly creative and clever. Yeah I'm debating between 2+1/2 level or 3. Or just the static 5/10/15 scaling. That ability i like those, the extended rest selection just like a genasi with multiple manifestations.
Thanks a ton man, you've really helped me through this process. Friending you if you like it or not, haha
So lets see, it seems like the abilites and stats are getting finalized. Speed i'm thinking should stay at 5 because of their tiny legs, they'd be medium size, languages would be common,abyssal; and skill bonuses of +2 intimidate and +2 dungeonering. I say dungeonering only because it takes a dungeonering check to know about demons and I'm guessing a dretch would know about his race and other abyssal type things which i think all fall under the dungeonering skill.
Those both sound perfect.
So. As it stands you have this:
Dretch
RACIAL TRAITS
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Darkvision
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Intimidation
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Demonic Origin: You are considered an elemental creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin, and you have the demon subtype.
Sickening Miasma: Choose one at character creation: You can use the Sticky Miasma racial power once per encounter, or you can use the Repulsive Miasma racial power once per encounter. You cannot change this choice.
Sticky Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Repuslive Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Personal
Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
If I were you, I would come up with one more racial trait there, to sort of fill it out. Poke through the other races to find something that you can reflavor, and bam. You're done.
Edit: Made suggested changes, and gave a choice between two powers. It occured to me that the first one was ONLY useful to melee combatants, and could be a deteriment to ranged fighters. A racial feature should be universally useful, hence the change.
1) Monster stat block says they're small. So PCs should probably be small as well.
2) Monster stat block says they have darkvision. Nothing wrong with PC races having it too - drow and duergar both get it, according to Compendium.
Minor quibbles...
1) Monster stat block says they're small. So PCs should probably be small as well.
2) Monster stat block says they have darkvision. Nothing wrong with PC races having it too - drow and duergar both get it, according to Compendium.
Taken into account and edited.
I like it sir. Especially the creature type, i forgot to include the elemental type with the demon subtype. Yeah I'll have to see if there's one more small ability to include. Maybe a weird varation on vile death were its just a immediate reaction to a attack, encounter power that maybe doesn't even deal damage but slows the target for 1 round. the usualy 3+stat vs fort and so forth.
But too keep things going, racial feats, how bout dem racial feats.
Maybe have a feat that expands both sicking miasma powers out to 4 squares.
Another that lets them pick two resistances at the start of each rest?
Another one simular to assasins where you gain concealment after using sickening miasma.
A paragon feat for sickening miasma might be that every creature hit by it is slowed for the round. I don't want to use daze because that might be a little much.
But too keep things going, racial feats, how bout dem racial feats.
Maybe have a feat that expands both sicking miasma powers out to 4 squares.
Another that lets them pick two resistances at the start of each rest?
Another one simular to assasins where you gain concealment after using sickening miasma.
A paragon feat for sickening miasma might be that every creature hit by it is slowed for the round. I don't want to use daze because that might be a little much.
All good. Also, perhaps a feat that adds other types to the list to choose from, like Psychic, Lightning, and Thunder?
(WHY IS IT THUNDER!? WHERE IS SONIC DAMAGE? GRRRR!! Sorry, Tiny Rant (tm) over.)
But too keep things going, racial feats, how bout dem racial feats.
Maybe have a feat that expands both sicking miasma powers out to 4 squares.
Another that lets them pick two resistances at the start of each rest?
Another one simular to assasins where you gain concealment after using sickening miasma.
A paragon feat for sickening miasma might be that every creature hit by it is slowed for the round. I don't want to use daze because that might be a little much.
All good. Also, perhaps a feat that adds other types to the list to choose from, like Psychic, Lightning, and Thunder?
(WHY IS IT THUNDER!? WHERE IS SONIC DAMAGE? GRRRR!! Sorry, Tiny Rant (tm) over.)
Yeah I was trying to think of some other damage types that might make sense, I think acid would be the only one appilcable. But maybe if shoved in fire it could be taken with all the fire baed wizard feats. But maisma...thats on fire...comming out of a dretch is kind of stretching it.
So what do you think of the immediate reaction to attack slow target idea?
(The same reason the Thunder Cats weren't named the Sonic Sats, it just sounds cooler)
So what do you think of the immediate reaction to attack slow target idea?
Menh. I don't care for more than 1 "per encounter" style effect per race, and we've already got the miasma. It just feels like another excuse to wedge something in there just for flavor without regards to mechanics or balance, and that's a recipe for fail. (I should REALLY learn to take my own advice...)
Anyway. How about this. He's a demon, right? Seen all kinds of terrifying things. Probably a bit resistant to attempts to fear him.
Seen It All: You gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against fear.
So what do you think of the immediate reaction to attack slow target idea?
Menh. I don't care for more than 1 "per encounter" style effect per race, and we've already got the miasma. It just feels like another excuse to wedge something in there just for flavor without regards to mechanics or balance, and that's a recipe for fail. (I should REALLY learn to take my own advice...)
Anyway. How about this. He's a demon, right? Seen all kinds of terrifying things. Probably a bit resistant to attempts to fear him.
Seen It All: You gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against fear.
Thats it right there, the final little tid bit to finish the character off. It makes sense cause demons don't really fear anything but their superiors who scare them into fighting until they die.
I think that pretty much wraps up the race except for maybe one more racial feat or racial feat editing.
Agreed. Well, enjoy your new race!
Thank you for your help. Now to put it all together and put it on Fireclaves thread to see if its truly balanced.
Dretch
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 3'-6"-4'-0"
Average Weight: 60-75 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Darkvision
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Intimidate
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Radiant, Thunder, Force, Lightning, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Demonic Origin: You are considered an elemental creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin, and you have the demon subtype.
Seen it All: +5 to saving throws vs. Fear
Sickening Miasma: Choose one at character creation: You can use the Sticky Miasma racial power once per encounter, or you can use the Repulsive Miasma racial power once per encounter. You cannot change this choice.
Sticky Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Repuslive Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Personal
Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Heroic Tier Race Feats:
Explosive Miasma: Expand the range of your sickening Miasma power to close burst 3.
Smokey Stink: After using your Sickening Miasma power you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Expansive Resistance: Your Flexible Resistance class feature now provides two different resistances after each extended rest.
Paragon Tier Race Feats:
Choking Miasma: Each creature hit by your Sickening Miasma power is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Brainless Grit: After succeeding on a fear saving throw you gain 5+constitution modifier temperary hit points.
Friendly Stink: Any allies that are the target of your Sickening Miasma power gain +5 to their fortitude defenses against the attack.
Expansive Resistance: Your Demonic Origin class feature now provides two different resistances after each extended rest.
I think you mean "Flexible Resistance racial feature".
Expansive Resistance: Your Demonic Origin class feature now provides two different resistances after each extended rest.
I think you mean "Flexible Resistance racial feature".
Hurp, eidited that somethin quick. Thanks for that reminder.
Dretch
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 3'-6"-4'-0"
Average Weight: 60-75 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Low Light Vision
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Intimidate
Your not scary Enough: You have a +1 racial bonus to will.
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select a energy damage type. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Demonic Origin: You are considered an elemental creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin, and you have the demon subtype.
Seen it All: +5 to saving throws vs. Fear
Sickening Miasma: Choose one at character creation: You can use the Sticky Miasma racial power once per encounter, or you can use the Repulsive Miasma racial power once per encounter. You cannot change this choice.
Sticky Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 1
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Effect: The miasma lasts until the end of your next turn. The next move action the creature takes it is subject to a attack.
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Repuslive Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 1
Effect: The Miasma lasts until the end of your next turn. Any creature that ends its turn in the miasma is subject to a attack.
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Heroic Tier Race Feats:
Explosive Miasma: Expand the range of your sickening Miasma power to close burst 2.
Smokey Stink: After using your Sickening Miasma power you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Expansive Resistance: Your Flexible Resistance class feature now provides two different resistances after each extended rest.
Paragon Tier Race Feats:
Choking Miasma: Each creature hit by your Sickening Miasma power is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Brainless Grit: After succeeding on a fear saving throw you gain 5+constitution modifier temperary hit points.
Friendly Stink: Any allies that are the target of your Sickening Miasma power gain +4 to their fortitude defenses against the attack.