Dropping Action Points? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dropping Action Points?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
locathus
Jun 22, 2008 12:57:50 Hey all. I'm thinking of dropping action points from our house version of 4E. I just don't see them adding much to the game, and it seems like just one more thing to keep track of.

Has anyone tried this, and are there any particular drawbacks I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance.
#2
klaustheprince
Jun 22, 2008 17:12:32
are there any particular drawbacks I should be aware of?

Most paragon paths getting nerfed?
#3
AaronOfBarbaria
Jun 22, 2008 18:31:22 It also makes it so that the number of encounters a party can handle reasonably drops down a few.

Action Point used well = almost as beneficial as a second use of your daily.

An example: Fighter uses his daily Brute Strike for 3[w] +strength. In the next encounter things get a little hairy, so he uses an an action point to help him out... effectively turning his encounter power (passing attack) into a new attack that deals 1[w] +strength to a primary target, and 2 attacks at 1[w] + strength to a secondary target, also pushing the second target 1 square and having the choice to shift to follow.

Action points (other than activating paragon powers) are there so that the party can feasibly take on 4-6 (or even 8 if they are lucky) encounters in one day... makes things feel adventurous.
#4
azdraugnor
Jun 23, 2008 18:11:02 Action points, IMX, contribute a lot to character survival, since they make you more effective when you need it most. Removing them won't have a huge impact on game balance, but you will have less leeway with regards to what the PC's can handle.
#5
kouk
Jun 23, 2008 21:50:59 Similarly, many Elite or Solo monsters will be noticeably weaker without their action points.
#6
Scottomir
Jun 28, 2008 8:03:56 Locathus, I had kind of the same reaction as you when I first got 4E. However, it's pretty clear that Action Points play an important role, particularly in the Paragon Paths or against the hardest encounters. The trick is for players used to 3/3.5 to remember to use them!

But like you, I resent having to keep track of APs. Why not turn that job over to a player? The character sheet has a little tracker for APs. Ask one of the players to keep count of the number of "encounters" and let the group know when they have earned another AP.
#7
duke_qa
Jun 28, 2008 10:31:20 Action points is a very nice part of the new game. I would hate to see that removed right away without trying it out for a while.

My first demi-tpk of 4e(they were imprisoned by kobolds for sacrificing) was most likely caused because my players were not used to action points. Afterwards they started using them and things went much smoother.

Let the players keep count of their own action points, you should only keep count of encounters that works towards a milestone. I usually have a list of experience spent on enemies, so I can easily see how much they've been through and if I feel they deserve a milestone.

Also remember, players can only use one AP per battle. should stop the worst novas.
#8
Ogiwan
Jun 28, 2008 12:08:08 There are also some benefits for using Action Points. My Warlord, for example, is an Inspiring warlord, so my allies heal 4 HP when they use an action point.
#9
morrisonmp_dup
Jun 30, 2008 15:17:44 I also really don't like the addition of action points to the system. I told my players prior to seeing the books that I would most likely not use them... but after seeing how they work in game, I've grown more comfortable with the idea.

I was afraid that action points would equate to the type of things they did in Unearthed Arcana or Eberron (in either of which they are too much) but the integration of action points into 4e seems well done. They have much to recommend them and I would suggest, respectfully, using them for a time and then deciding to drop them if you choose.

Things this will hurt include:

Encounters become harder.
Warlord powers may need to be rewritten
Paragon paths need to be rewritten.
Some feats just disappear

So, give them a try, you may come to like them.

MI
#10
pigknight
Jun 30, 2008 16:26:02 Action Points:
A) Make it so that when you screw up, you don't have to fudge rolls.
and B) Make players feel cooler.

Win-win.
#11
eldiran
Jun 30, 2008 16:55:17 Aye, I recommend you give action points a good run before dumping them. As a DM, you don't really need to keep track of them-- they're something the players should pay attention to. I think they contribute a degree of strategy and flexibility to the combat, and more importantly, they help the party to persevere without having to retreat and rest every few encounters.

Suffice to say, dropping action points would be a lot more hassle (rewriting Paragon Paths, etc) than just having to keep track of 'em.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 locathus Jun 22, 2008 12:57:50	Hey all. I'm thinking of dropping action points from our house version of 4E. I just don't see them adding much to the game, and it seems like just one more thing to keep track of. Has anyone tried this, and are there any particular drawbacks I should be aware of? Thanks in advance.
#2 klaustheprince Jun 22, 2008 17:12:32	are there any particular drawbacks I should be aware of? Most paragon paths getting nerfed?
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 22, 2008 18:31:22	It also makes it so that the number of encounters a party can handle reasonably drops down a few. Action Point used well = almost as beneficial as a second use of your daily. An example: Fighter uses his daily Brute Strike for 3[w] +strength. In the next encounter things get a little hairy, so he uses an an action point to help him out... effectively turning his encounter power (passing attack) into a new attack that deals 1[w] +strength to a primary target, and 2 attacks at 1[w] + strength to a secondary target, also pushing the second target 1 square and having the choice to shift to follow. Action points (other than activating paragon powers) are there so that the party can feasibly take on 4-6 (or even 8 if they are lucky) encounters in one day... makes things feel adventurous.
#4 azdraugnor Jun 23, 2008 18:11:02	Action points, IMX, contribute a lot to character survival, since they make you more effective when you need it most. Removing them won't have a huge impact on game balance, but you will have less leeway with regards to what the PC's can handle.
#5 kouk Jun 23, 2008 21:50:59	Similarly, many Elite or Solo monsters will be noticeably weaker without their action points.
#6 Scottomir Jun 28, 2008 8:03:56	Locathus, I had kind of the same reaction as you when I first got 4E. However, it's pretty clear that Action Points play an important role, particularly in the Paragon Paths or against the hardest encounters. The trick is for players used to 3/3.5 to remember to use them! But like you, I resent having to keep track of APs. Why not turn that job over to a player? The character sheet has a little tracker for APs. Ask one of the players to keep count of the number of "encounters" and let the group know when they have earned another AP.
#7 duke_qa Jun 28, 2008 10:31:20	Action points is a very nice part of the new game. I would hate to see that removed right away without trying it out for a while. My first demi-tpk of 4e(they were imprisoned by kobolds for sacrificing) was most likely caused because my players were not used to action points. Afterwards they started using them and things went much smoother. Let the players keep count of their own action points, you should only keep count of encounters that works towards a milestone. I usually have a list of experience spent on enemies, so I can easily see how much they've been through and if I feel they deserve a milestone. Also remember, players can only use one AP per battle. should stop the worst novas.
#8 Ogiwan Jun 28, 2008 12:08:08	There are also some benefits for using Action Points. My Warlord, for example, is an Inspiring warlord, so my allies heal 4 HP when they use an action point.
#9 morrisonmp_dup Jun 30, 2008 15:17:44	I also really don't like the addition of action points to the system. I told my players prior to seeing the books that I would most likely not use them... but after seeing how they work in game, I've grown more comfortable with the idea. I was afraid that action points would equate to the type of things they did in Unearthed Arcana or Eberron (in either of which they are too much) but the integration of action points into 4e seems well done. They have much to recommend them and I would suggest, respectfully, using them for a time and then deciding to drop them if you choose. Things this will hurt include: Encounters become harder. Warlord powers may need to be rewritten Paragon paths need to be rewritten. Some feats just disappear So, give them a try, you may come to like them. MI
#10 pigknight Jun 30, 2008 16:26:02	Action Points: A) Make it so that when you screw up, you don't have to fudge rolls. and B) Make players feel cooler. Win-win.
#11 eldiran Jun 30, 2008 16:55:17	Aye, I recommend you give action points a good run before dumping them. As a DM, you don't really need to keep track of them-- they're something the players should pay attention to. I think they contribute a degree of strategy and flexibility to the combat, and more importantly, they help the party to persevere without having to retreat and rest every few encounters. Suffice to say, dropping action points would be a lot more hassle (rewriting Paragon Paths, etc) than just having to keep track of 'em.