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Drow are just Evil?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ghost0
Mar 31, 2009 20:20:59 Am I mistaken, or were Drow considered Chaotic Evil in 3.5? They are just "Evil" now, which says to me "more Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil, but...evil nonetheless."

I'm building a campaign where I want some interaction with a small enclave of Drow. I'd also like to rope in a fomorian or two, just because I'd like the game to climax, or semi-climax (as in, the BBEG that they really hate in mid to late epic tier is an archfey of some sort, looking to become a god, or take over the seat of Sehanine or something), and I'm wondering if these creatures would ever really work together. I get that, in the modest fluff text for fomorians in 4e, that they don't really have any gods, they don't really worship anyone but themselves, and that their motives are basically their own...but what might be a motive for a fomorian? Would they ally with drow?

Also, how do you feel about Torog? (oops, said his name...) Can/should fomorians worship this god? There are lots of themes of pain and torture, sorrow and darkness that I'd like to bring into the game, but i'm not feeling the whole classic Lolth worship. NOTE: I know, I know, I can do anything I want, it's my campaign, I can make angels of Zehir, I can make devils who work for silver dragons, etc etc... What I'm looking for is some *smoothing* of some of the canonical monsters' "cultures"...their "ways". Would Drow work with Fomorians? Would fomorians have a god that they worship?

Any opinions are welcomed, thanks!
#2
Neutronium_Dragon
Mar 31, 2009 22:24:12 Drow were typically Neutral Evil in 3.5. Generally only the full-fledged priestesses of Lolth and the like were Chaotic Evil.

Their society is just as seething now as it was then, though. Alignments have been redefined substantially in 4E. Chaotic Evil is essentially about destruction for its own sake (or more cosmologically, wanting to render the world back into the primordial chaos from which it spawned). The drow aren't into that; they're 4E-Evil.
#3
gregt_314
Mar 31, 2009 22:48:05 For examples of 4E drow check out module P2. It's got traditional Llolth drow, it's got drow who worship Orcus, it's got zombie drow, it's got drow across the full spectrum of evil-type alignments.
#4
ghost0
Mar 31, 2009 23:15:19 Thanks for the reference!

I have indeed checked out that module...something I've been watching very carefully, because, I feel like most who are incorporating Drow into their games, it's just about the perfect level.

Well, the zombies are zombies...they didn't choose that fate. Undead have always been a serious staple of their magical arts, though I haven't read it carefully enough to see those that *worship* Orcus.

In some ways I'm peeved that there's so little divulged about this god Torog, in other ways I'm happy that I can do whatever I want with these semi-meaningless concepts. But I've hit this bulwark...I want creatures who may be associated with Torog, but who have classically only worshiped one and only one god. Am I wrong on that? Do Drow defect? Don't they pretty much get flayed for disobeying ANY teaching of Lolth?

Aren't Drow more Lawful Evil than Neutral Evil? I realize I'm speaking in 3.5 terms, but it's still a bit of the way I think. They have a system, they do not care if the system works in their favor and not for yours. They relish in punishment, and they seek only ways to circumvent the system to most effectively defeat their foes.

Aren't the fey just as "chaotic" as they were before? Since when did they begin giving a fr&ck about rules? I don't know, I'm mildly worried about how now my drow might seem different than 3 years ago. Anyone else?
#5
pigknight
Mar 31, 2009 23:43:17 All drow are CG rangers that rebel against their CE brethren.

I had to say that.
#6
oxybe
Apr 01, 2009 10:02:30 actually PK, the drow are primarily a race of CG people, rebelling against their CE nature in their LE society.

other then that tongue in cheek reply, they're generally seen as a bunch of backstabbing schemers who live in a matriarchal society, based around several powerful families (think mafia). their deity, lolth, emphasises the dog-eat-dog mantra so that only the strongest and most fit of the lot survive and become the head of the drow people.

also, they eat babies, kick puppies, drown kittens, and listen to bad europop. the really horrible stuff.
#7
leowulf
Apr 02, 2009 0:51:00 You forgot the part about dressing like goth chics. ;)
#8
ADHadh
Apr 02, 2009 3:12:50
(...) and listen to bad europop. (...)

D:

I'm afraid to use drow in campaigns now.

As for To.. The King That Crawls, I think his shrines should be located in prisons as a way to torture prisoners psychically, but I can't think of him as a daeity for a particular race.
#9
starwulf
Apr 02, 2009 3:20:56 One of the changes I like about 4E (and I had it houseruled into my 3.0 games) is that alignments are no longer supposed to be set in stone. There are always exceptions now. So Drow in 4E will be mostly evil with a smattering of all the other alignments.
#10
Vatras
Apr 02, 2009 5:30:42 I like my drow to be 1st Edition: cruel, heartless, traitorous, bloodthirsty and evil, without a single individual that is not evil at heart.
In other words, if a PC spots a drow he *knows* it's an enemy, without any doubt whatsoever

(I always hated Drizz't and the thousands of drow PCs...)
#11
bane13
Apr 02, 2009 19:48:21 In my campaign, I consider the Drow to be a band of rogue elves (crazy terrorists elves if you like) that paint themselve in black because of there legendary leader, who turn black after releasing a terrible dark force. So, the darks elves are base on the legend of the »Dark elf».
#12
moondoggy
Apr 02, 2009 20:00:32 I had drow as Shadowfell elves in my campaign, along with duergar, shadar-kai and the Darkscale, shadow dragonborn.

Conversely eladrin were "strictly feywild" elves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ghost0 Mar 31, 2009 20:20:59	Am I mistaken, or were Drow considered Chaotic Evil in 3.5? They are just "Evil" now, which says to me "more Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil, but...evil nonetheless." I'm building a campaign where I want some interaction with a small enclave of Drow. I'd also like to rope in a fomorian or two, just because I'd like the game to climax, or semi-climax (as in, the BBEG that they really hate in mid to late epic tier is an archfey of some sort, looking to become a god, or take over the seat of Sehanine or something), and I'm wondering if these creatures would ever really work together. I get that, in the modest fluff text for fomorians in 4e, that they don't really have any gods, they don't really worship anyone but themselves, and that their motives are basically their own...but what might be a motive for a fomorian? Would they ally with drow? Also, how do you feel about Torog? (oops, said his name...) Can/should fomorians worship this god? There are lots of themes of pain and torture, sorrow and darkness that I'd like to bring into the game, but i'm not feeling the whole classic Lolth worship. NOTE: I know, I know, I can do anything I want, it's my campaign, I can make angels of Zehir, I can make devils who work for silver dragons, etc etc... What I'm looking for is some smoothing of some of the canonical monsters' "cultures"...their "ways". Would Drow work with Fomorians? Would fomorians have a god that they worship? Any opinions are welcomed, thanks!
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Mar 31, 2009 22:24:12	Drow were typically Neutral Evil in 3.5. Generally only the full-fledged priestesses of Lolth and the like were Chaotic Evil. Their society is just as seething now as it was then, though. Alignments have been redefined substantially in 4E. Chaotic Evil is essentially about destruction for its own sake (or more cosmologically, wanting to render the world back into the primordial chaos from which it spawned). The drow aren't into that; they're 4E-Evil.
#3 gregt_314 Mar 31, 2009 22:48:05	For examples of 4E drow check out module P2. It's got traditional Llolth drow, it's got drow who worship Orcus, it's got zombie drow, it's got drow across the full spectrum of evil-type alignments.
#4 ghost0 Mar 31, 2009 23:15:19	Thanks for the reference! I have indeed checked out that module...something I've been watching very carefully, because, I feel like most who are incorporating Drow into their games, it's just about the perfect level. Well, the zombies are zombies...they didn't choose that fate. Undead have always been a serious staple of their magical arts, though I haven't read it carefully enough to see those that worship Orcus. In some ways I'm peeved that there's so little divulged about this god Torog, in other ways I'm happy that I can do whatever I want with these semi-meaningless concepts. But I've hit this bulwark...I want creatures who may be associated with Torog, but who have classically only worshiped one and only one god. Am I wrong on that? Do Drow defect? Don't they pretty much get flayed for disobeying ANY teaching of Lolth? Aren't Drow more Lawful Evil than Neutral Evil? I realize I'm speaking in 3.5 terms, but it's still a bit of the way I think. They have a system, they do not care if the system works in their favor and not for yours. They relish in punishment, and they seek only ways to circumvent the system to most effectively defeat their foes. Aren't the fey just as "chaotic" as they were before? Since when did they begin giving a fr&ck about rules? I don't know, I'm mildly worried about how now my drow might seem different than 3 years ago. Anyone else?
#5 pigknight Mar 31, 2009 23:43:17	All drow are CG rangers that rebel against their CE brethren. I had to say that.
#6 oxybe Apr 01, 2009 10:02:30	actually PK, the drow are primarily a race of CG people, rebelling against their CE nature in their LE society. other then that tongue in cheek reply, they're generally seen as a bunch of backstabbing schemers who live in a matriarchal society, based around several powerful families (think mafia). their deity, lolth, emphasises the dog-eat-dog mantra so that only the strongest and most fit of the lot survive and become the head of the drow people. also, they eat babies, kick puppies, drown kittens, and listen to bad europop. the really horrible stuff.
#7 leowulf Apr 02, 2009 0:51:00	You forgot the part about dressing like goth chics. ;)
#8 ADHadh Apr 02, 2009 3:12:50	(...) and listen to bad europop. (...) D: I'm afraid to use drow in campaigns now. As for To.. The King That Crawls, I think his shrines should be located in prisons as a way to torture prisoners psychically, but I can't think of him as a daeity for a particular race.
#9 starwulf Apr 02, 2009 3:20:56	One of the changes I like about 4E (and I had it houseruled into my 3.0 games) is that alignments are no longer supposed to be set in stone. There are always exceptions now. So Drow in 4E will be mostly evil with a smattering of all the other alignments.
#10 Vatras Apr 02, 2009 5:30:42	I like my drow to be 1st Edition: cruel, heartless, traitorous, bloodthirsty and evil, without a single individual that is not evil at heart. In other words, if a PC spots a drow he knows it's an enemy, without any doubt whatsoever (I always hated Drizz't and the thousands of drow PCs...)
#11 bane13 Apr 02, 2009 19:48:21	In my campaign, I consider the Drow to be a band of rogue elves (crazy terrorists elves if you like) that paint themselve in black because of there legendary leader, who turn black after releasing a terrible dark force. So, the darks elves are base on the legend of the »Dark elf».
#12 moondoggy Apr 02, 2009 20:00:32	I had drow as Shadowfell elves in my campaign, along with duergar, shadar-kai and the Darkscale, shadow dragonborn. Conversely eladrin were "strictly feywild" elves.