drow scorpion chain - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

drow scorpion chain

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
johnny_gaijin
Jan 15, 2009 1:44:18 drow scorpion chain

2 handed superior melee weapon
prof. +3
dmg 1d6
group flail, light blade
properties reach

what do you think?
#2
guest1671070079_dup
Jan 15, 2009 3:28:34 Is it martial or what?
#3
Qube
Jan 15, 2009 5:48:09 as general rule, I'm opposed to weapons of 2 types (such as 'flail, light blade', or 'heavy blade, axe', ...)
#4
johnny_gaijin
Jan 16, 2009 2:52:52 whoops, yeah it's a superior weapon... sorry 'bout that
#5
Lord_Ventnor
Jan 16, 2009 2:57:37 Not really balanced, when compared to the Whip, which is a Superior Weapon as well. The whip is +3/1d4/Flail/Off-hand, Reach.
#6
aluman
Jan 16, 2009 12:37:31
drow scorpion chain

superior melee weapon
prof. +3
dmg 1d6
group flail, light blade
properties reach

what do you think?

One handed or two? From damage tables that appears to be one handed. In which case compared to the short sword this has Flail Group and Reach.

I don't think rogues should be able to sneak attack at reach, so I am mostly opposed to it. Drop the Reach and give it say 'high crit' and it should be ok. Or alternately drop the light blade and up the damage to 1d8.
#7
johnny_gaijin
Jan 18, 2009 2:59:35 sorry, 1st time doing this... 2 handed weapon
#8
aluman
Jan 18, 2009 14:39:33 Kay
Up damage to 2d4
Change 'light blade' to 'heavy blade'
Then it should be fine.
#9
Cyber-Dave
Jan 18, 2009 15:21:45 Considering the fact that the idea of the weapon, in 3e, was a weapon used by rogues, I think his light blade idea is not bad. Its a two handed weapon that ONLY deals 1d6 damage. Its a superior weapon, so for anyone to use it it requires a feat. It grants the same bonus to hit as a short sword (which is a martial weapon). So, in comparison to a short sword, its exactly the same except its part of the flail group and has reach, but must be used two handed. Honestly, I don't agree with the other posters at all. I think this weapon is totally balanced as is.
#10
powerattackfortwenty
Jan 18, 2009 17:47:08 I agree with Cyber-Dave, but if your still concerned about balance, drop the prof bonus by 1
#11
aluman
Jan 18, 2009 18:07:05
Considering the fact that the idea of the weapon, in 3e, was a weapon used by rogues, I think his light blade idea is not bad. Its a two handed weapon that ONLY deals 1d6 damage. Its a superior weapon, so for anyone to use it it requires a feat. It grants the same bonus to hit as a short sword (which is a martial weapon). So, in comparison to a short sword, its exactly the same except its part of the flail group and has reach, but must be used two handed. Honestly, I don't agree with the other posters at all. I think this weapon is totally balanced as is.

Light blade is weird sounding on a two handed weapon, but I can roll with it. 1d6 is NOT an acceptable 2H damage amount, there is a table that shows them,
1d8>2d4>1d12>2d6>2d8.

If you introduce 1d6, how would it react to bugbear's oversized? Or the Eternal something something that grants it as well?

Or what about an ogre with one?

The create the damage chart for a reason, it should be stuck to.

Sneak attack+Brutal scoundrel without fear of entering melee = Win. Its bad weapon design to allow it.
#12
aluman
Jan 18, 2009 18:09:03
I agree with Cyber-Dave, but if your still concerned about balance, drop the prof bonus by 1

See the odd thing is, what I am suggesting makes for a stronger weapon +3 1d6 < +3 2d4.

What it does do is move it into the acceptable damage charts, meaning oddities won't crop up with it.
#13
mellored
Jan 18, 2009 19:29:34
Sneak attack+Brutal scoundrel without fear of entering melee = Win. Its bad weapon design to allow it.

Flanking requires you to be ajacent. Sure you could get CA a few other ways, but rogues already have a 1d6 ranged weapon.

While 2-h +3 1d6 is small, you get reach, flail, and lightblade.
Compared to the whip, you get an extra 1 damage, and light blade, and loose offhand and another hand, which seems perfectly reasonable.

I do think 2d4 damage would be to much.

And for oversize, since your house ruling this anyways. 1d6 -> 1d8
#14
johnny_gaijin
Jan 19, 2009 21:00:18 do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better?
#15
aluman
Jan 19, 2009 21:15:04
do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better?

D8 is fine for damage to, I think its fine at +3 1d8, the other +3 superior weapons are 2d4 (Spiked chain) and 1d10 (Greatspear) you still have the damage decrease for being lightblade.
#16
vebrandsson
Jan 19, 2009 21:45:22 I am already useing something identical to this as it is written now, +3 1d6, Looking at the 2 handed progression, 1d8 should follow 1d6 if you want oversized, though I don't allow oversized in my campaigns, something backed up by the fact that wizards themselves removed it from the minotaur.
#17
Cyber-Dave
Jan 20, 2009 0:04:43
do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better?

No, but I don't think it would make it worse. I do, however, think that a +3/1d8 ranged "light blade" weapon is far too powerful. If you up the damage, reduce the bonus to hit.
#18
aluman
Jan 20, 2009 12:06:44
No, but I don't think it would make it worse. I do, however, think that a +3/1d8 ranged "light blade" weapon is far too powerful. If you up the damage, reduce the bonus to hit.

Its a two handed weapon, +3 1d8 is well within in the bounds of a two handed weapon, and on the 1H chart its the equilivent of 1d4.

By comparison a rogue with a rapier can get 1d8+1 (From TWF) or TWBSword 1d8+1 with +1AC.

A straight 1d8 reach is fine, so long as Light blade works on 2H weapons.
#19
Cyber-Dave
Jan 20, 2009 16:13:35
Its a two handed weapon, +3 1d8 is well within in the bounds of a two handed weapon, and on the 1H chart its the equilivent of 1d4.

By comparison a rogue with a rapier can get 1d8+1 (From TWF) or TWBSword 1d8+1 with +1AC.

A straight 1d8 reach is fine, so long as Light blade works on 2H weapons.

Its is both a light blade, a flail, and has reach. The combination of these qualities with a +3 proficiency bonus to hit and 1d8 damage would make it overpowered in my opinion. I would not allow that in my games. On the other hand, if its +2/1d8 or +3/1d6 I would be fine with it. A rogue with a rapier can spend a feat to gain an additional +1 to damage, but they never have reach, and only feats from the light blade tree will effect the weapon. This weapon will benefit from both light blade and flail feats, AND has reach, the reach without expending any sort of feat. If it has the same bonus to hit as a rapier, I certainly think it is overpowered (despite being two handed).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 johnny_gaijin Jan 15, 2009 1:44:18	drow scorpion chain 2 handed superior melee weapon prof. +3 dmg 1d6 group flail, light blade properties reach what do you think?
#2 guest1671070079_dup Jan 15, 2009 3:28:34	Is it martial or what?
#3 Qube Jan 15, 2009 5:48:09	as general rule, I'm opposed to weapons of 2 types (such as 'flail, light blade', or 'heavy blade, axe', ...)
#4 johnny_gaijin Jan 16, 2009 2:52:52	whoops, yeah it's a superior weapon... sorry 'bout that
#5 Lord_Ventnor Jan 16, 2009 2:57:37	Not really balanced, when compared to the Whip, which is a Superior Weapon as well. The whip is +3/1d4/Flail/Off-hand, Reach.
#6 aluman Jan 16, 2009 12:37:31	drow scorpion chain superior melee weapon prof. +3 dmg 1d6 group flail, light blade properties reach what do you think? One handed or two? From damage tables that appears to be one handed. In which case compared to the short sword this has Flail Group and Reach. I don't think rogues should be able to sneak attack at reach, so I am mostly opposed to it. Drop the Reach and give it say 'high crit' and it should be ok. Or alternately drop the light blade and up the damage to 1d8.
#7 johnny_gaijin Jan 18, 2009 2:59:35	sorry, 1st time doing this... 2 handed weapon
#8 aluman Jan 18, 2009 14:39:33	Kay Up damage to 2d4 Change 'light blade' to 'heavy blade' Then it should be fine.
#9 Cyber-Dave Jan 18, 2009 15:21:45	Considering the fact that the idea of the weapon, in 3e, was a weapon used by rogues, I think his light blade idea is not bad. Its a two handed weapon that ONLY deals 1d6 damage. Its a superior weapon, so for anyone to use it it requires a feat. It grants the same bonus to hit as a short sword (which is a martial weapon). So, in comparison to a short sword, its exactly the same except its part of the flail group and has reach, but must be used two handed. Honestly, I don't agree with the other posters at all. I think this weapon is totally balanced as is.
#10 powerattackfortwenty Jan 18, 2009 17:47:08	I agree with Cyber-Dave, but if your still concerned about balance, drop the prof bonus by 1
#11 aluman Jan 18, 2009 18:07:05	Considering the fact that the idea of the weapon, in 3e, was a weapon used by rogues, I think his light blade idea is not bad. Its a two handed weapon that ONLY deals 1d6 damage. Its a superior weapon, so for anyone to use it it requires a feat. It grants the same bonus to hit as a short sword (which is a martial weapon). So, in comparison to a short sword, its exactly the same except its part of the flail group and has reach, but must be used two handed. Honestly, I don't agree with the other posters at all. I think this weapon is totally balanced as is. Light blade is weird sounding on a two handed weapon, but I can roll with it. 1d6 is NOT an acceptable 2H damage amount, there is a table that shows them, 1d8>2d4>1d12>2d6>2d8. If you introduce 1d6, how would it react to bugbear's oversized? Or the Eternal something something that grants it as well? Or what about an ogre with one? The create the damage chart for a reason, it should be stuck to. Sneak attack+Brutal scoundrel without fear of entering melee = Win. Its bad weapon design to allow it.
#12 aluman Jan 18, 2009 18:09:03	I agree with Cyber-Dave, but if your still concerned about balance, drop the prof bonus by 1 See the odd thing is, what I am suggesting makes for a stronger weapon +3 1d6 < +3 2d4. What it does do is move it into the acceptable damage charts, meaning oddities won't crop up with it.
#13 mellored Jan 18, 2009 19:29:34	Sneak attack+Brutal scoundrel without fear of entering melee = Win. Its bad weapon design to allow it. Flanking requires you to be ajacent. Sure you could get CA a few other ways, but rogues already have a 1d6 ranged weapon. While 2-h +3 1d6 is small, you get reach, flail, and lightblade. Compared to the whip, you get an extra 1 damage, and light blade, and loose offhand and another hand, which seems perfectly reasonable. I do think 2d4 damage would be to much. And for oversize, since your house ruling this anyways. 1d6 -> 1d8
#14 johnny_gaijin Jan 19, 2009 21:00:18	do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better?
#15 aluman Jan 19, 2009 21:15:04	do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better? D8 is fine for damage to, I think its fine at +3 1d8, the other +3 superior weapons are 2d4 (Spiked chain) and 1d10 (Greatspear) you still have the damage decrease for being lightblade.
#16 vebrandsson Jan 19, 2009 21:45:22	I am already useing something identical to this as it is written now, +3 1d6, Looking at the 2 handed progression, 1d8 should follow 1d6 if you want oversized, though I don't allow oversized in my campaigns, something backed up by the fact that wizards themselves removed it from the minotaur.
#17 Cyber-Dave Jan 20, 2009 0:04:43	do you think dropping the proficiency bonus to +2 and making it d8 dmg would be better? No, but I don't think it would make it worse. I do, however, think that a +3/1d8 ranged "light blade" weapon is far too powerful. If you up the damage, reduce the bonus to hit.
#18 aluman Jan 20, 2009 12:06:44	No, but I don't think it would make it worse. I do, however, think that a +3/1d8 ranged "light blade" weapon is far too powerful. If you up the damage, reduce the bonus to hit. Its a two handed weapon, +3 1d8 is well within in the bounds of a two handed weapon, and on the 1H chart its the equilivent of 1d4. By comparison a rogue with a rapier can get 1d8+1 (From TWF) or TWBSword 1d8+1 with +1AC. A straight 1d8 reach is fine, so long as Light blade works on 2H weapons.
#19 Cyber-Dave Jan 20, 2009 16:13:35	Its a two handed weapon, +3 1d8 is well within in the bounds of a two handed weapon, and on the 1H chart its the equilivent of 1d4. By comparison a rogue with a rapier can get 1d8+1 (From TWF) or TWBSword 1d8+1 with +1AC. A straight 1d8 reach is fine, so long as Light blade works on 2H weapons. Its is both a light blade, a flail, and has reach. The combination of these qualities with a +3 proficiency bonus to hit and 1d8 damage would make it overpowered in my opinion. I would not allow that in my games. On the other hand, if its +2/1d8 or +3/1d6 I would be fine with it. A rogue with a rapier can spend a feat to gain an additional +1 to damage, but they never have reach, and only feats from the light blade tree will effect the weapon. This weapon will benefit from both light blade and flail feats, AND has reach, the reach without expending any sort of feat. If it has the same bonus to hit as a rapier, I certainly think it is overpowered (despite being two handed).