But if I were to make my own character, I feel, well, chafed. I have to make 2/3 of my stuff attack even if I want to make a support character? If there's a "signature" of my character, he can only do it once per day? No thanks. And if you have two fighters, well, they're pretty much interchangable until they go Paragon. Ick. Whatever happened to fighters that specialized in archery?
I can't fix the last part, but I can fix the rest. The trick is to have "ranks" of powers:
Rank 1: 1st & 2nd level
Rank 2: 3rd-6th
Rank 3: 7th-10th
Rank 4: 11th-15th
Rank 5: 16th-20th
Level 1: Choose 2 at-will powers, one Encounter rank 1 power, and any one Rank 1 Power.
Level 2: Choose any Rank 1 power.
Level 3: Choose any Rank 2 Encounter power
Level 5: Choose any Rank 2 power
Level 6: Choose any Rank 2 power, or 'nearby' Rank 1 power
Level 7: Choose any Rank 3 Encounter power
Level 9: Choose any Rank 3 power
Level 10: Choose any Rank 3 power, or 'nearby' Rank 2 power, or 'similar' Rank 1 Power
Level 11: Choose any Rank 4 Encounter power
Level 12: Choose any Rank 4 power
Level 13: Replace with any Rank 4 Power
Level 15: Choose any Rank 4 power, or 'nearby' Rank 3 power, or 'similar' Rank 2 power
Level 16: Choose any Rank 5 power
Level 17: Replace with any Rank 5 power
Level 19: Replace with any Rank 5 power
Level 20: Choose any Rank 5 power, or 'nearby' or 'similar' Rank 3 power.
Note: Level 1 At-will powers are not Rank powers, and cannot be taken where it says to take a Rank power.
What are Nearby and Similar?
The order is:
Cleric<->Paladin<->Warlord<->Fighter<->Ranger<->Rogue<->Warlock<->Wizard
A 'nearby' class is one over, so a fighter at level 10 can take a Rank 3 Fighter power or a Rank 2 Warlord or Ranger power. A 'similar' class is two over, so the Fighter could instead take a Rank 1 Paladin or Rogue power. Level 1 At-Will powers can never be taken this way. This is simply 'broadening' a character: it is not multiclassing. A fighter who gets a Warlord power this way is not a fighter/warlord, he's just a fighter who's been in command on occassion. A rogue who can use two weapons effectively is just that, not a Rogue/Ranger.
How about duplicate powers? Well, Daily duplicate powers cannot be used more than once in the same encounter: you can get two Fireballs, but you'll have to use them in different encounters. On the other hand, two Encounter powers can be used in the same encounter (but not on the same turn), but they can only affect one individual at a time, and only the latter one counts. They are never cumulative.
So what does this accomplish? Well, now I can specialize. At 10th level, I have 9 regular powers as well as my two at-wills. I can make a quick combat-type with 6 daily and 3 encounter. I can make a support type with 6 utility and 3 encounter. I can spread my character out a bit, making one of my less used abilities more powerful on occassion (like Fighters with bows, or Rogues with two weapons). I can also make a character designed for the duration by giving him more encounter powers.
The second more important build I can make is the 'simple' version. Suppose I have a party of adults with one 8 year old son of two of the players. I don't want to give him a dozen different powers, each of which is useful in a different situation, and make him learn them all. Then I have to force him to figure out when it's overkill, and when to save it, and so forth. And he's going to have to deal with lots of advice from the other players on this sort of thing. Piffle on that. Let's make him a 10th level fighter:
Cleave
Sure Strike
3x Steel Serpent Strike: 2[W]+Str, target slowed and cannot shift.
3x Crushing Blow: 2[W]+Str+Con damage
3x Griffon's Wrath: 2[W]+Str and target has -2AC until EOYNT
I'm not even worried about Cleave and Sure Strike, since if it comes up I'll mention it to him. Otherwise, he has three attacks, all rolled the same way, all do the same base damage plus an effect. He gets to use them three times each during a fight.
Would that be boring for an adult? Oh, probably, although it's not really different from what fighters have been doing all along. Is this perfect for an eight year old? Absolutely. When he wants to develop the character, doing more damage or moving in combat more or moving others, we can certainly make changes to accomodate it.
If it was a cleric, it might be three Healing Strikes, three Daunting Lights, and three Strengthen the Faiths. For a Mage, maybe I'd get three Chill Strikes, three Color Sprays, and three Fire Bursts. It's not that these are great designs, it's that they're designs that are easy for the kid to handle until he's got a hold of the character. And don't forget, he still has to choose 6 feats to play with. But it makes the character much easier to play if you don't have to worry about a whole lot of powers or "If I use this, what will I have left for next battle"? I know, the guys who designed the game don't want to play that kind of character. But you have to have a way for new people and kids to be able to get into the game and be useful without being overwhelmed.
The most important thing is, I can still make the characters in the book, or any supplement. That's just the 'well-rounded' variant. Not my style, but who am I to tell people what to play? The well rounded characters should do just fine in a party of customized people. Sure, they won't be as impressive in one battle as the Daily-heavy players, or be as useful in utility as the Utility specialists, or last through four combats like the Encounter-heavies, but isn't that the point of well-rounded?
I'm not sure what the disadvantage is supposed to be. Yes, if there's a particular power that's overpowered, then the person will be able to use it more than once per day. The solution? Get rid of the overpowering. When I GM, those are the worst: if there's a once per day "win the encounter" power, then either the party just forgets about the action point and crawls through the game, or they get hit by an encounter I've designed that factors in the "win the encounter" power and they've already used it so they all die. Balancing the game by allowing the limited usage of unbalanced powers doesn't work.
Does it allow for more min/maxing? I suppose, especially if there's a deadly combination. But I'd rather have those fixed than make this sort of 'one/day' workaround. Besides, everybody wants to customize a character to do what they want it to do best (which isn't always damage). Being forced to take stuff that you don't want and are never going to use detracts from this.
Having said that, I do put a limit on it, by requiring that Encounter powers be taken once each rank 1-4. The logic behind this is that you really don't want characters who blow their wad on the first battle and then read a book for the rest of the day. This requires that they have at *least* the staying power of a template character, and perhaps more.
Be kind.
Minorly useful Clerics and Paladins.
Sucks for Wizards and Warlocks.
Wizards tend for INT, WIS Their nearby (Warlock) is CHA,CON their 'similar' is DEX.
They have no reason at all to select nearby or similars as what they need is not what the Warlock or Rogue needs, and is usually oppsite land (Wizards benefit from a decent Con, so maybe 1/3 of powers of a warlock will they have a stat bonus to)
Warlocks are CHA,CON,INT (as the third rank aka: 12-14 to begin with) so their similar's are DEX, INT.
Their Nearbys are DEX, STR, INT.
They will generally stick to their own powers as they have 1/2 of the wizards side to choose from their teriaty ability which will lag behind, making choosing a power of a low level to be less efficient with it, a poor choice.
However a Fighter is
STR, CON, WIS
His nearbys are STR, STR/DEX (warlords to me are Strength based who do special things with INT/CHA not INT/CHA who need Strength).
His Similars are CHA, STR, STR/DEX, DEX
Therfor his nearbys are keyed similar to his own keys, which allows him to pick up a lot of bang for his buck.
It would be better (IMO) to set them not in 'role' or 'theme' sets but rather attribute sets.
IE
Group I
Warlord
Fighter
Ranger
Rogue
Group II
Wizard
Cleric
Group III
Warlock
Paladin
Wizards and Clerics have more synergy attribute wise then Wizards and Warlocks.
Warlocks and Paladins have more synergy then Pallys and Fighters or Warlocks and Clerics.
Though really, if you are going for more choices, maybe just blend everything into 'Martial Class' 'Divine Class' and 'Arcane Class'. And let them choose the classes that exist solely for Class Abilities.
IE: If you choose Warlord you get the standard warlord abilities but could pick up cleave if you wanted to.
thus far my experience as a DM with 4th ed has left me with mixed impressions of how i want to run the game. It is simple and moves swiftly at lower levels, but i definitely feel like its lacking in the versatility that made 3.x Dnd so attractive to me. I believe the game has potential, but in order to achieve the entertainment value 3.x did, i think the game needs more complexity and a shot of realism. It only takes a few seconds of skimming through the boards to see that the players want something complex and open ended. Players want mechanic diversity, players want powers for situations that involve non combat interaction, players want the ability to make a character that feels unique and have an interesting blend of abilities. rereading the phb for 3.0 and 3.5, the options made available with just the core books were extensive and it immersed the players in choices for intriguing characters mechanically, and allowed them to translate the characters and heroes in their minds into something tangible they could share with their friends.
4th edition doesnt really offer that.
True, it is definitely more user friendly and much easier, but lets be honest nothing good comes with something easy. a ten year old child could play 4th ed dnd and enjoy it. there is nothing wrong with that
but I am 19 years old, and I need something to stimulate my brain more.
what you're offering, and if you dont mind, what id like to test, seems like a solid foundation to root out the mutliclassing problem. I still think there are a lot of things that need to be expanded on in 4th ed to make it feel less linear, but i have hope for the game so long as there are players and dms offering creative criticism.
what you're offering, and if you dont mind, what id like to test
But of course, that's what it's here for. Feel free to make changes as needed. Give it a shot, see how it works, let us know.
Interesting idea, which I'll need to give some more thought to. One quick comment:
The continuum of classes is both somewhat arbitrary and also hard to integrate new classes into without breaking existing characters. Some alternatives off the top of my head would be:
1. Any power from the same power source counts as "nearby". Any power from the same role but a different power source counts as "similar". If it is neither from the same role nor the same power source, it isn't available without multi-classing.
2. Any power from either the same role or the same power source counts as "nearby", and any power that is neither from the same role nor power source is "similar". This gives much broader flexibility than yours, since everything falls at least under "similar".
Nearby: Same source, both Leader/Controller or both Defender/Striker
Nearby: Different Source, identical role
Similar: Same source, opposite kind of role.
Cleric (DL)- Nearby: Warlord. Similar: Paladin
Fighter (MD)- Nearby: Ranger, Rogue, Paladin. Similar- Warlord
Paladin (DD)- Nearby: Fighter. Similar: Cleric
Ranger (MS)- Nearby: Fighter, Rogue, Warlock. Similar- Warlord
Rogue (MS)- Nearby: Fighter, Ranger, Warlock. Similar- Warlord
Warlock (AS)- Nearby: Ranger, Rogue. Similar: Wizard
Warlord (ML)- Nearby: Cleric, Similar: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue
Wizard (AC)- Nearby: None. Similar: Warlock
Interesting. Works for everybody except Wizard, who gets screwed as the only controller, and one of only two Arcanes. On the other hand, I don't care much about the Wizard. Of all the classes, he probably has the biggest difference between 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, and 1 Utility per Rank, vs. 1 Encounter 2 Daily vs. 1 Encounter 2 Utility etc. So having him more limited in the powers he can take is less, well, limiting.
Zeratulcraft- because Rangers are supposed to be lightly armored, high mobility types that do a great deal of moving around and shooting. Fighter Archers are supposed to be heavily armored types that shoot in order to make opponents come to them. And marking works that way- Combat Challenge works great with missile weapons. But they don't have a single power to, say, force somebody adjacent to also get a CC, or fire a second shot at somebody who doesn't move towards them, or pull targets, or so forth. Lots of defender powers possible with archery. D&D simply didn't make them.
Yet.
Perhaps as more arcane classes come out (AD and AL are needed) it will be more balanced. The new setup does make it useful for non-fighters, so it is much better. It still leaves wizards/warlocks holding the short end of the stick.
But then the only classes with Cha/con charged powers are Paladins and warlocks (Warlord's extras run off of cha).