Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Genevox Mar 08, 2011 5:00:02	so i was talking with a friend and somehow we got on the topic of magic the gathering planeswalkers, their storylines etc. and it occured to me that a planeswalker based d and d campaign would be really cool. players choose their favorite planes walker and build a char based off that, travel through the planes saving worlds etc. i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or ideas i may be able to use.
#2 pluisjen Mar 08, 2011 5:12:05	Play at least Paragon Level, give them access to a few rituals for free (ie; Plane Shift), hand out some bonus powers that allow them to summon creatures regardless of role and don't be afraid to reflavor heavily to make powers and creatures more Magic-like. Use lots and lots of Minions, also. They make players feel powerful.
#3 Genevox Mar 08, 2011 5:34:37	the summoning creatures gave me an awesome idea... that'll let me incorporate "mana" of a sort as well. something like each of your turns you add 1 to your mana pool (2 at paragon, 3 at epic) you can gain a total of mana equal to your level and can use up the mana to summon creatures of a level equal to the mana  you used.   ie. its your third turn in the encounter you can summon up to a level 3 monster as an ally. but may be better off summoning a lvl 2 this turn and a level 2 next turn too. minions were already a plan, as well as the reflavoring. why paragon though?
#4 pluisjen Mar 08, 2011 6:17:08	Planeswalkers are bad ass. By putting them at Paragon level, they can start off by slicing orcs and goblins left and right, without needing to worry about losing to one. I personally can't see a regular Orc or even an Ogre or Troll truly bother a Planeswalker. For the summoning; due to level discrepancy it might not be very useful to summon low level monsters; they won't be able to hit anything. If you want to use a mana-pool to summon monsters from, it's better to summon monsters of roughly your level -2 or something, but if you spend more mana then you get better monsters (ie; 1 mana makes a Minion, 4 mana makes a Regular, 8 mana makes an Elite, something like that) That way the summons are more then encounter filler; they'd actually contribute to winning, even if you don't save up. It also prevents players from summoning things that are higher level then they are.
#5 rampant Mar 08, 2011 6:27:15	MOst planeswalkers tend to be magey types of one sort or another, I was never clear if that was a rule or if they were just the only ones who tended to get themselves killed in such a manner as to awaken the spark or whatever. Would a Warlord become a Planeswalker?
#6 Genevox Mar 08, 2011 8:08:19	@ rampant  well my original idea is making planeswalker templates ie. koth an earth soul gensai warden (hes a vulshok geomancer in truth) or elspeth a human paladin, nicol bolas a dragonborn warlock. chandra as a human sorceress. that kind of thing. if you think about each planeswalker you can come up with an idea as to how the d and d classes and races can fit them.  then add in specific planeswalker abilities for each individual. so a warlord wouldnt become a planeswalker.  it would be a warlord AND a planeswalker. @pluisjen the problem with that, is if you swarm your summons, the summons are powerful enough to kill encounters without help. the way i had originally set it up you can swarm the field but the summons are insignificant, you still gotta do the work...or save up to get decent help.
#7 pluisjen Mar 08, 2011 8:30:05	If the summons are minions, they are insignificant, and if you have to save a few turns to get "decent help" (aka a standard monster) then I think you're getting the same effect  You'd probably just have to tweak the numbers a bit. The thing is mostly that summoning lots of really low level critters is a huge time-sink that adds nothing to the encounter. Even a level 1 Kobold has 25 hp and can probably take 2 hits, but it will never be anything other then a wall because it simply cannot hurt anything. At least a minion has a chance to hit something and deal a few points of damage, and doesn't take up as much time.  If the summons are truly insignificant, then you could probably better model them as something else entirely; difficult terrain for example. If you want Planeswalker as something in addition to the regular, consider making your own Hybrid Class for Planeswalker. Just make sure it's not bound to any of the abilities.
#8 rampant Mar 08, 2011 10:34:34	What if planeswalker is implemented as a theme that all the characters have?
#9 Genevox Mar 08, 2011 10:35:23	explain?
#10 rampant Mar 08, 2011 10:50:32	Well a theme is sort of a third axis of character creation (after race, and class), it debuted in Darksun and we were promised more but Wizards has been dragon their feat.  Anyway each theme has its own role, power source, associated feats, and paragon paths. In addition each one comes with a free encounter power (power level somewhere between a class at will and encounter power). Finally they have their own power lists, and whenever a character learns a power as part of their normal progression they can choose to learn a class power or a theme power of the appropriate level. Theme powers vary from normal powers in several key ways. First of all they use your primary (highest) ability score for attack and damage. Any implement you are proficient with will function as an implement for implement theme powers. The attack powers scale up with level, increasing damage (and other things) to stay competitive, this means you only have to create 4 attack powers (level 3 and 7 encounter, level 5 and 9 daily) and give them upgraded forms instead of coming up with a hundred attack powers. The utility powers only go up through level 10, and you can get away with a s few as one per level (2, 6, and 10). So a theme can be used to alter the class without the disruptions of a poor hybrid or multi-class match, and lets the player control how much or how little effect it has on their play style.
#11 Genevox Mar 08, 2011 11:30:18	i get it i think. they get their actual powers as a class,  but also have the ability to use specific planes walker abilities granted by the theme (which is where id put stuff such as planeswalking and creature summoning and the like)? so the only thing next would be to come up with a way to do that without completely busting the characters.
#12 Genevox Mar 09, 2011 11:30:05	does anyone know where i might find a template to attempt this as a theme?
#13 rampant Mar 09, 2011 11:42:20	Well themes in and of themselves don't do much. Most get away with fluff, name, power source, and role. Then use the power template for the powers, the feat template for the the feats, and the paragon path template for the paragon paths.
#14 pluisjen Mar 09, 2011 16:05:56	You can use Qube´s Blockbuilder to design powers if you want, it´s here: ruigekonijnen.nl/blockbuilder.html I don't have any real experience with Themes, so not much more I can add.
#15 Krusk Mar 10, 2011 10:19:23	I know you are using 4e, but I would strongly consider looking at 3.5. Play all wizards/clerics/druids and start at level 15 or so. They have abilities to planeswalk, and summon and the spellcasting system feels a lot more like MTG to me than 4e. Something to consider looking at.
#16 pluisjen Mar 10, 2011 11:59:14	I don't say this often, but yeah Krusk has a point, 3.5e is certainly also an option for what you're looking for. This might be one of the things that system's really good at.
#17 rampant Mar 10, 2011 12:08:11	A theme would be simpler than relearning how to use a 3e cleric's turn undead, much less some of those 3e spells. Also point of clarification. In the novels the Planeswalkers didn't do all that much summoning anyway, at least not in the invasion cycle. Are you trying to make the party like MTG Planewalkers? or like playing mtg?
#18 Krusk Mar 10, 2011 18:27:38	I don't say this often, but yeah Krusk has a point Really tempted to sig that. I think your second comma was supposed to be a . If not, thats cool too.
#19 Genevox Mar 11, 2011 10:50:40	first, it wouldnt be re-learning, i never played before 4e. id have to figure everything out in 3e to begin with, make it up then teach my group how to play 3e before even getting to try it in a real campaign, its just way too much work. second, isnt the idea behind playing magic is that YOU are a planeswalker? so it would kinda be a mix between the actual planeswalkers and the game of mtg i guess. the creature summoning i thought was really cool, i know its not necessary but if i can implement it without having to worry too much about breaking them, or putting in too much work, then i will, cause like i said it was a really good idea.
#20 pluisjen Mar 11, 2011 11:04:45	I don't say this often, but yeah Krusk has a point Really tempted to sig that. I think your second comma was supposed to be a . If not, thats cool too. Oops that may have come across the wrong way. I meant I don't often say that 3.5e is a better choice for what someone is trying to do, but you were right that this is an exception
#21 rampant Mar 11, 2011 13:04:18	Since 3e isn't an option here, it seems to me that a theme is the best choice. Now as for magic: Well when I started back in the tail end of the uzra block, yes you were playing a walker. However during the invasion cycle the walkers got a fair bit o page time and didn't do as much summoning as I expected. I as far as the books go players seem closer to the battle mages of the old days than walkers. Though the walkers back then did behave more like players as well. Also I heard that the nature of the planes walkers was altered in the time shift block, so I dunno what they're like these days except that you can now summon and command them.  A theme heavy on the summoning should work out fine.