Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 oddball_omega Dec 21, 2010 13:28:00	So my players are going to be visiting a dwarf city in a few weeks, and I'm really struggling with a design for it. I like that dwarves dig into mountains, and I've chosen to preserve that vibe. But I don't want to spend time working on the city just to have the players think "ok, so my PC is walking into Ironforge/Moria..." What are other things we can do with Dwarf cities? Like I said, the only limitation is that  it's under the mountain.
#2 Aldii Dec 21, 2010 13:48:03	A Dwarven city built on islands in the middle of an underground ocean? A series of dark, foreboding fortresses each standing tall on a rocky island surrounded by dark water that has not been touched by sunlight for thousands of years.
#3 jetshield Dec 21, 2010 15:44:05	Sunlight coming down through dozens of quartz (or other crystal) veins combined with hundreds (or thousands if it's a large city) of cunningly concealed ventilation tunnels make for a light, airy city. Common homes are made of a wood-like material harvested from gigantic fungi and painted with murals. The wealthy import expensive hardwoods from the surface for their homes. Murals on the wealthier homes are carefully done to allow the natural wood grain to show to best advantage. Windows on all homes tend to be somewhat larger than is common on human houses. Where safety requires stone be used in building construction, marble is prefered. Well-tended parks and gardens are scattered throughout the city, each with it's own mini-sun (I'll leave it to you to decide where the heck they came from). Through the center of the city flows a wide river, spanned at intervals by arching stone bridges. Barges, fishing boats, and pleasure-craft can be seen on the waters at any time, night or day.
#4 pruano Dec 21, 2010 19:34:38	Volcano: - fire to build equipment, pressure to create diamonds, magma to bring gem stones to the surface. Planar rift to a crystal world (finally a way to introduce shardminds into a proper context) ;P
#5 warzark Dec 22, 2010 1:18:36	The dwarves found a great chasm under a mountain, however this was by no means an unfortunate discovery. Along the ceiling of the massive subterranian gully was a vast network of crystals growing from the chasm roof. Carving into them, the dwarves made themselves a large, hanging city out of the crystal growths. Each of the large crystals forms a district of the city with the larger, clearer crystals belonging to vital institutions like commerce and government, along with the nobility and higher castes, while the smaller, dingy crystals belong to the poor and unessential dwarven citizens. Each crystal is a massive structer, able to comftertably house dozens in some of the smaller growths and hundreds in the truly larger ones.
#6 yellowdingo Dec 22, 2010 1:41:43	Well I once had a Dwarven City at the foot of a Mountain...they were quarrying it (The Entire Mountain) for Granite Stone which they continuously sold to the Kingdom (to pave his Canals, Roads and Causeways, and build cities and Walls). Should take them a few thousand years before it is all gone. I suppose you could have them quarrying the Mountain to reveal their city to the Sky... 5 Quarry Workers should be able to generate 76 Ton of Cut Granite Blocks per Month (A 10 x 10 x 10 block). For an @cost of 1.6sp per one ton stone block. THat should give you an Idea of how much money the city has comming in per month and how much stone is being exported per month. PS THey made a Discovery a few years back in South America of a Huge Cavern of Crystal. THe Piezoelectric energy and heat will kill you in an hour...So maybe these Dwarves need a Fire Elemental Template to cope with the Heat?
#7 kirkdent Dec 22, 2010 13:08:12	More fluff, less cruch: This has always bothered me about Dwarves... do they bring sheep or goats (etc.) into the underground, to eat the normal mutton and such?  That doesn't seem right to me, as it's too dependent on the surface, and I don't see dwarves taking such animals out of their natural environment like that. Do they find some other food source in the depths?  I can't see dwarves being happy about eating cave moss or slime, so... You could invent a weird new animal native to caves that could make for some interesting flavor.  Maybe a (medium-sized) blind, six-legged rhino-like critter with crystalline chunks in its hide.  It could be used to pull carts and carry loads, but it also tastes like chicken!
#8 TregMallin Dec 22, 2010 17:18:49	Sick of the cliches... how about this: it's a dry town.  No booze anywhere.
#9 jetshield Dec 22, 2010 21:54:44	Sick of the cliches... how about this: it's a dry town.  No booze anywhere. and the resident dwarves are vegans?
#10 cantus Dec 22, 2010 22:34:35	Here, look at this, it's a pretty nifty idea as far as a buried city goes, it doesn't need to be next to the sea, like this one is, and the upper levels can be where most of the inter-race trading happens/the gnomish slums or whatever. www.jessevandijk.net/g_08_76.html
#11 TregMallin Dec 23, 2010 6:27:07	Sick of the cliches... how about this: it's a dry town.  No booze anywhere. and the resident dwarves are vegans? Might make sense given the question of "what does a city of subterranean dwellers eat?" from above.
#12 yellowdingo Dec 23, 2010 23:05:53	More fluff, less cruch: This has always bothered me about Dwarves... do they bring sheep or goats (etc.) into the underground, to eat the normal mutton and such?  That doesn't seem right to me, as it's too dependent on the surface, and I don't see dwarves taking such animals out of their natural environment like that. Do they find some other food source in the depths?  I can't see dwarves being happy about eating cave moss or slime, so... You could invent a weird new animal native to caves that could make for some interesting flavor.  Maybe a (medium-sized) blind, six-legged rhino-like critter with crystalline chunks in its hide.  It could be used to pull carts and carry loads, but it also tastes like chicken! Subterranean Food Sources: Roast Carrion Crawler (Tastes Gamey) Elf (chewy buggers - very little fat on them but good for beef jerky) Fungus (Grows Every where) Blind Fish (swim inwater ways) Giant Spider / Insect Eggs (Drink for Protien) Mushroom Farming: Specially cut Tunnels (20' diameter) with Mushrooms growing on the walls produce enough mushroom for 1 dwarf per day per foot of tunnel (so a tunnel section 10' long will produce enough mushroom to support 10 dwarves for a single day). A mile of mushroom tunnel will support 14 dwarves for a year.
#13 pruano Dec 24, 2010 6:53:12	Hey, lets not forget commerce; jewels and equipment for food (similar to modern Japan). They do not need to be totally self sufficient, and that gives hooks about disturbed comerce lines to affect the city economy (this thread just added another piece to my campaign). :P
#14 Neutronium_Dragon Dec 24, 2010 19:30:06	There's no reason why a dwarf city has to be built underground. Even if they're fond of working stone, that's just as feasible on the surface - probably more feasible at that. The preview books talked about this a bit, and some old D&D settings even took steps in that direction. Fortifications and the like might well be underground (being the dwarf equivalent of bunkers), and perhaps some culturally-significant things like cathedrals, but much of the day-to-day community around it is probably aboveground and thus better-positioned to make use of (and keep control of) the surrounding territory). In WoW terms, ignore Ironforge for a moment and look at their architecture in most other places: it's stone, built partly above and partly below ground (with a low profile, which is better-suited to the cold/windy regions that they typically control). Fully below-ground construction is generally only seen among the military outposts.
#15 Bamboo Dec 24, 2010 23:14:48	In my old game, I had dwarves come form a great chasm.  They built there cities in the cliffs.  I had them carve a huge statues.  Infact the temple of Moradin was a huge 500 foot statue working on a anvil that was the entrance. But I have dwarves first make use of natural terrain, building into cliffs, chasms, peaks, mountain faces and the such before going into the mountains and hills.
#16 pruano Dec 25, 2010 9:33:13	There's no reason why a dwarf city has to be built underground. The OP wants to keep that one.
#17 Dreamstryder Dec 27, 2010 19:12:01	I hope you've made a list of all the cliches you'd like to avoid. You can just reverse or avoid them. To break out of Tolkien's shadow, you'd want to study: 1. Earth legends about dwarves (not Tolkein's dwarves or those that copy Tolkien, including most Western RPG depictions). 2. Real-world mountains (not all of which are above water). The door under the mountains really leads into another world lighted by an alien sun or a hollow world in which dwarves occupy the roles humans play on the outside (so the dwarves aren't in tunnels at all).
#18 oddball_omega Dec 28, 2010 10:38:50	Just wanted to update you with my progress. First, the thing I'm specifically trying to avoid is a "grand hall under the mountain" feel. A place with either dark earth tones or the bright reds and oranges of forges and lava pits. The typical architecture includes arches and pillars to support the roof, bridges over chasms or lava, all stone and metal. Neutronium_Dragon, thanks for discussing the above-ground architecture, because while I want this city to be under a mountain, I think maybe outdoor guard towers, nearby towns owned by the same dwarves, etc, can make use of the kind of buildings you were talking about. So, here's my working version of Thunderhorn. Mt. Thunderhorn itself is squat and wide; larger than some of the nearby mountains, but not taller. The Thunderborn river streams out of the Trader's Gate, and winds away to the south, with a broad, well tended road running beside. There are several round, low-profile guard towers along the road and at strategic points along the face of the mountain. As you come to the entrance to the city, the fledgeling river disappears through a grate, and your path twists back and forth through tight corridors with low ceilings. There is enough room to maneuver a large wagon, but it will take some time and skill, and there are dwarven laborers on hand to assist with the difficult passage. While inconvenient for traders, the winding passage is the mountain's primary defense- full of hidden portcullises, boiling oil traps, and secret doors and slats to allow fast ambushes against attackers. This entry to the city is long and slopes ever downward, leading into the root of the mountain. The passage ends with a large, fortified gate- complete with mammoth stone doors, guard towers, and a large detachment of soldiers. The gates of Thunderhorn have never been breached. Once through the gate, the world opens up again-  Thunderhon, the Hanging City. The whole city lies within a cavernous, seemingly sunlit chamber, and at the center of the chamber, hanging from the roof, are many stonework towers, each a separate and distinct work of art, carved with great care. The style of the towers are somewhat varied, but they are all curvaceous, elegant, with spirals and flourishes and tastefully placed gemwork. They descend from the roof, almost meeting with the great lake that lies below. The lake, which covers much of the floor of this mighty cavern, reflects the gracefuly beauty of the towers above. Known to the inhabitants of Thunderhorn as Lucienne, The Fair Lady, the lake is the focal point of activity in the city. Fed by the same vast, underground sea that launches the Thunderborn River, Lucienne is a placid lake that supports the fishing and irrigation requirements of the city, while allowing for quick travel from one end of the cavern to the other. Surrounding Lucienne are the markets, neighborhoods, farms, and slums that are the foundation of the city. The farms of Thunderhorn are a marvel unto themselves. An ambient sunlight fills the whole city, emanating from the walls, the result of a powerful enchantment placed on them long ago. Supported by the waters of Lucienne and light rain from the naturally-occuring clouds that form at the top of the city. Crops of wheat, fields of grass for raising livestock, and vineyards for making fine wines are all found deep under the mountain. The city is primarily dwarven, has a sizeable gnome population, and supports the only community of good-aligned Dragonborn in the world. (The remaining Dragonborn have thrown their support behind a powerful dragon that rules a kingdom further to the North and West.) Some halflings and humans are present, though few are residents. Thunderhorn's government is divided between the noble and just King Glorin, and the lethargic, bureaucratic Senate. Power is shared equally, though the long deliberations of the Senate often restrain the desires of the King. The senate is has representatives of the three main races of Thunderhorn. Sorry for the length