Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gnomemaster Apr 25, 2009 17:48:37	So I have been thinking about the idea of the world that is covered by city idea. Any thoughts from anyone on this subject? I kind of like the idea of it is a plane that was abandoned long ago, and inhabited by refugees from a plane that died. what should their population be? how do they get food? thoughts?
#2 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2009 18:36:18	Well first need info on stuff like: What kind of city is it? How advance is the technology? What kind of magic is there? What is the environment like? Related to the above, are there oceans? Are there other planes and is there trade/commerce between them and the city? Depending on the above some of these may not work but, some ideas: The city is divided up into ruined areas of the city. These "No Man's Land" are the borders between the "Districts". The Districts are essentially nations within the city. The District has formed for various reasons; political, racial, religious and debates over what caused the destruction of the plane. The population is made up of a wide variety of planar races. While most live in peace, it is hardly cosmopolitiain and racial tension can run high. The poor live underground or in the ruins of the old city. The rich live in the ever increasing in height monolithic buildings scattered about the city. They grow in height as they build on top of old buildings. The need for buildings ever increasing in the rapid population growth. Food is gathered by a combination of towers open to the elements where farms are grown. Harvesting from the various overgrown areas of the city and underground and hunting the animals that also inhabit these abandoned areas.
#3 yellowdingo Apr 26, 2009 20:49:25	So I have been thinking about the idea of the world that is covered by city idea. Any thoughts from anyone on this subject? I kind of like the idea of it is a plane that was abandoned long ago, and inhabited by refugees from a plane that died. what should their population be? how do they get food? thoughts? The City of Brass (thousand and one nights): The city has a Circumference that is 72 hours on camel -meaning it is very big and very populous. The City is filled with Corpses and Wealth. But they all perished from a 7 year Drought. No amount of wealth could get them food.
#4 nowiwantmydmg Apr 27, 2009 12:07:06	This should either be a highly populated metropolis or a sparsely populated wasteland with large areas that are entirely uninhabited by civilised things. I prefer the latter idea but that's me.
#5 turtlshellz May 17, 2009 3:20:45	I know I am a little late in posting to this thread but you may want to try Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolf if you can find it. The novel is set in the far (millions of years from now?) future and features a protagonist that lives in a immense city. Although most of the action takes place with in the walls of a monastery of sorts there are hints at what life in a fantasy style ecumenopolis might be like. If the entire plane is covered in this City then you have the possibility of whole nations arising within the ruins. Dungeons (Above and below ground) abound as well. Obviously the City must trade with other planes in order to get food, unless some parts of it have been cleared to make way for farming (like Trantor, after the fall of the Empire in The Foundation series by Asimov). The second is going to happen even if trade exists. Not everyone will want to, or be able to trade for food. Alternatively some locations in the City may have access to magical or technological versions of Star Trek's infamous Replicators. Other areas may have access to so-called pocket dimensions (Demi-planes? Maybe they arent the same thing) where they are able to grow their food, and retreat to in case of overwhelming invasion. Some of the people living there might grow their food underground. As the City is inhabited by refugees from otherplanes you have the potential to allow your players imaginations to run riot on what races they play. This might be overwhelming for you and your players but it could turn out to be a benefit as well. Allowing players to have a hand in the creation of the game setting can help to encourage them to enjoy it and really appreciate it as well. As to a name I imagine that may differ from location to location. Of the City was in existance before the refugees arrived they may just refer to it as The Ruins or The City. You will have different peoples calling it by different names. elves, for instance pinning for their lost forests, might just call it Hell.
#6 yellowdingo May 17, 2009 8:54:55	SETTLEMENT DEVELOPMENT Settlements can appear anywhere. But in doing so, they will adhere to certain rules. So first off, let’s look at why our settlement is in this location. A. Location of Settlements There are four major reasons for a Settlement location: Resource Proximity, Environmental Transition, Connectivity of Routes, or Defensible Position. ...Resource Proximity… 1. Mineral 2. Agricultural Land 3. Building Material 4. Labour 5. Water 6. Wind ...Environmental Transition… 7. Forest-Tundra 8. Ocean-Coast 9. Desert-Plain 10. Foothills-Mountains 11. Lake-Lakeside ...Connectivity of Routes… 12. River Crossing/ Crossroads 13. River Branch/Fork in Road 14. Stop Over/Rest Stop ...Defensible Position… 15. ****/Sea Wall 16. Mound 17. Hill 18. Mountain 19. River bend 20. Gorge/Pass Ex. The community of Umbrij sits on the river Avon where it meets the Trade Road. Our Community falls under a category 12 location (River Crossing/Crossroads). The River connects Timber up river and the Capital down river. The Trade Road on the other hand extends east and west. B. Primary Function of Settlements Market - (Description: A centralized community focussed on the collection and distribution of local produce. This type of community can function in isolation while access to a communication network is vital for the export of surplus produce. Prerequisite: Resource (Agricultural Land/Labour)). Industrial - (Description: A community concerned primarily with the processing of raw materials into manufactured goods. Some will specialize in a single end-product. They have access to the resources necessary to process raw materials including labour, power (water for mills). Industrial communities require a communication network to function. Prerequisite: Resource (Minerals/Labour/Water/Wind); Network (Road/River)). Commercial - (Description: A community involved in trade and financial activities (banking and money lending). They do not require traded produce to pass through the town and may be sophisticated enough to deal in document based trade and financial transactions. A communication network is critical to the survival of this community. Prerequisite: Node, Nexus (Road/River)). Mining - (Description: This is involved in the extraction of minerals. It will be located where the minerals are and that can be anywhere. It requires access to a communication network. Prerequisite: Network (River/Road), Resource (Mineral/Labour)). Administrative - (Description: This is the seat of government, whether the capital city or a local administration. This community will sit at a centre of a provincial or national communication network. Prerequisite: Node or Nexus (River/Road)). Cultural/Education - (Description: These are centred on universities and colleges. They are centres of learning and have a selection of appropriate crafts to support the development, recording, and storage of information. There is some need for access to a communication network. Prerequisite: Network, Nexus, Node (River/Road)). Ecclesiastical - (Description: Religious centres drawing pilgrimage, or housing religious associations or shrines. These require access to a communication network. Prerequisite: Network, Nexus, Node (River/Road)). Primary Residence – (Description: This is the residence of a Ruler (Whether President, Emperor, King, Duke or Baron). It is a palace or castle and requires some access to a communication network. Prerequisite: Any Location). Resorts – (Description: Baths, recreational districts, retreats. They require a favourable geographical location that provides both safety and healing. Resorts function on a communication network; Prerequisite: Coast, Hill, Network (Road/River)). Port – (Description: located on the coast as a fishing community, a centre of sea trade and travel or located on a river for the movement of goods and people by river. A port requires communication networks that extend over water and land. Prerequisite: Environmental Transition (Coast); Pit-stop, node, nexus (River/road); Defensible Position (Lakeside)). Residential - Description: These are designed to provide urban peoples with housing away from polluted, corrupted, or expensive urban centres. This specialization requires a second specialized centre in close proximity. Prerequisite: Network, node, nexus (Road/river)). Dispersed – (Description: Isolated independent farms with a selection of skills necessary to support their independent nature. There is little social interaction. Prerequisite: Exploitable Resource (Agricultural Land), Defensible Position (Mound)). Ex - In this case Umbrij is a Category 9 Function (Residential - the location is selected for its fewer toxins in the drinking water and air) and sits across the river from Ashwash: a Category 2 Function (industrial - Charcoal Production for the Capital down river using Timber from upriver). C. Settlement Components …Dispersed holdings… 1. Farm 2. Plantation 3. Ranch 4. Dairy-farm …Local market… 5. Granary 6. Marketplace 7. Storehouse 8. Well 9. Trade-fair …Industrial… 10. Mill wheel (water/wind/slave) 11. Charcoal Furnace 12. Potter’s Kiln 13. Glass Furnace 14. Smelter 15. Distillery 16. Barrel maker 17. Smokehouse 18. Winery 19. Blacksmith 20. Leatherworks 21. Tannery 22. Wheelwright …Commercial… 23. Guild Hall 24. Bank 25. Goldsmith 26. Moneylender 27. Roadside Inn 28. Tavern 29. Stables …Mining… 30. Clay pit 31. Stone Quarry 32. Peat Diggings 33. Salt Mine 34. Open Cut 35. Obsidian Scrounge 36. Mining tunnels …Administrative… 37. Parliament 38. Council Office 39. Clan Hall 40. Prison 41. Work-farm 42. Labour Camp 43. Watch Tower 44. Fortress 45. Signal Tower 46. Outpost 47. Border Checkpoint …Culture/education… 48. University 49. School 50. Bard’s College 51. Wizard’s Tower 52. Theatre 53. Arena 54. Fight Pit 55. Museum 56. Gallery …Ecclesiastical… 57. Church 58. Temple 59. Shrine 60. Sacred Grove 61. Altar 62. Religious School 63. Abbey 64. Monastery 65. Synod Council 66. Paladin’s Training Hall 67. Barrow 68. Burial Mound 69. Crypt 70. Graveyard 71. Hospital 72. Monument 73. Carved Stone Obelisk 74. Stone Circle …Primary Residence… 75. Castle 76. Palace 77. Keep 78. Manor house 79. chiefs hut …Resort… 80. Bathhouse 81. Boarding Houses 82. Bed & Breakfast 83. Recreational Lake 84. Public Gardens 85. Hiking Trail 86. Hot pools …Port… 87. Fishing hut 88. Ferry 89. Boathouse 90. Ocean port 91. River Port 92. Siding 93. Harbour 94. Docks 95. Shipyards …Residential… 96. Estates 97. Manor Houses 98. Suburbs 99. Ghetto 100. Shanty Ex – Umbrij is dominated by its crowded residential district straddling the trade-road on the east bank with a small marketplace where produce is sold to the residents, The west bank is dominated by the Charcoal furnaces, but there are also other industrial facilities polluting the air, ground, and river water. Docks, a timber yard where they dry and chop up logs into manageable timber for the charcoal furnaces and builders, a Tannery, pottery Kilns, and a Smelter making Ashwash a wretched, polluted place. To work. D. The Debris Of Abandoned Settlements When settlements are abandoned, due to what ever reason, many components are left behind. These components are often the hardest to remove (they are also characteristic of the settlement purpose) and will last centuries beyond the abandonment of the settlement. 1. Carved Stone Obelisk 2. Steele 3. Monument 4. Statue 5. Mine 6. Quarry 7. Smelter 8. Pottery Kiln 9. Blacksmith’s Forge 10. Charcoal Production Furnace 11. Stone Well 12. Irrigation Canal 13. Agricultural Field 14. Plantation Crop 15. Stone Docks 16. Bridge 17. Stone Paved Road 18. Causeway 19. Cemetery 20. Barrow Mound 21. Outdoor Altar Stone 22. Shrine 23. Buried Temple 24. Druid Grove 25. Ancient Tree 26. Ring of large Stones 27. Signal Tower 28. Watch Tower 29. Lighthouse 30. Fortified Cave 31. Bunker 32. Dungeon 33. Torture Chamber 34. Underground Laboratory 35. City Sewer 36. Catacombs 37. Castle Ruin 38. Foundations 39. Fitted Stone Wall 40. Re-used Rock Wall 41. Chimney 42. Fireplace 43. Partially-buried Brickwork Ex – While Umbrij is a new community, Ashwash is the site of the original community. Outside its walls are abandoned clay diggings, and inside the walls there is a pulled down mud-brick Shanty where labourers originally resided.
#7 jerichoalar May 18, 2009 4:32:11	So I have been thinking about the idea of the world that is covered by city idea. Any thoughts from anyone on this subject? I kind of like the idea of it is a plane that was abandoned long ago, and inhabited by refugees from a plane that died. what should their population be? how do they get food? thoughts? a lot of replies missed the ecumenopolis point. a typical medieval city had a population density of approximately 38,850 per sq. mile (think london rowhouses etc.) within the city limits itself. this would be a pretty typical build up for a city in this time: mostly one story buildings, little yards if any, some greenspace etc. If you want to go for a fantastical manhattan you're talking about approximately double that (70-80,000 per sq. mile) this would be magical towers only - 10+ stories each. so figure out how big a plane you want and multiply from there. assuming you want it to be a weeks travel by cart, at 25 miles per day, x 7 days is about 175 miles - so about 30,625 square miles, or 1,189,781,250 souls. you can subtract mileage if you include lakes/oceans instead of just huge tracts of land. if the entire plane is a city, the most likely ways they are getting food is either by ritual conjuration (lot's of travelers feasts or a custom ritual for your campaign) or by importing/stealing/farming on another plane. if you want a lower magic level you can either presuppose early discovery of Hydroponics or they can do either rooftop or subterranean cultivation. - rooftop cultivation gets you greenery, subterranean gets you moss/fungus/etc. Water is presumably run throughout the city in aqueducts, (eventually pressure piping) waterfront property is at a huge premium - and will mostly be used for milling / nobles. -> if you have no waterfront property, aqueducts still work, either from underground reservoirs or from a portal to a large lake in the elemental chaos. You can also use wells to underground reservoirs scattered throughout the city. Assuming typical market behavior you'll see the following businesses per square mile (on average): 256 Shoemakers 154 Tailors 96 Taverns 70 Carpenters 55 Coopers 42 Winerys 38 Butchers 25 Blacksmiths 22 Doctors 19 Sculptors 6 Book Sellers yes, there are 2.9 million taverns in your city. have fun naming them! there are also approximately 5.9 million nobles in your city, enough that there are probably multiple 'kings'. (district mayors?) there are also approximately 106 intersections per square mile (or about 3500 streets total if your city is a perfect grid) obviously you're not going to be detailing the entire city at once. depending on magic/tech level, you could go with mass transit options - otherwise the streets may stink from all the horse manure. You will probably also want an extensive sewer/catacomb/cave system for dungeon feel and may want to consider running some portions of the campaign on the rooftops as well. In any city this large there will be areas of various levels of disrepair, old unused industrial sites - slums, parks, etc. these can be used for adventure settings as well.