Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chewie8 May 26, 2010 8:57:23	So, I'm thinking of rolling up a Warlock for my next campaign, but I am dreading the boring-ness of Eldritch Blast.  Why has this power sat idly by, while there are comperable powers from other classes that are strictly better?  It does nothing special, besides choosing which attribute it uses (needed for this V-class), and being a ranged basic attack (potential fun, but not all that much use).  I am severly dissapointed in this power, and the fact that EVERY non-weapon Warlock has to take it.  I started looking through various similar powers, and found that darn near every other At-Will similar to Eldritch Blast has some sort of rider.  My question to this forum is, what would be a suitable replacement for Eldritch Blast?  What could we add to this At-Will to make it more exciting, and make every Warlock be fine with having to take it (or Eldritch Strike)?
#2 mplindustries May 26, 2010 9:04:38	It's more damaging than Magic Missile, and it's just about identical to Acid Orb.  I've not seen an implement RBA with a special rider on it, come to think of it.
#3 chewie8 May 26, 2010 9:14:57	List of ranged basic attacks At-Wills with riders: Avenging Shackles Avenging Light Sun Strike Kinetic Trawl Energy Strobe Dragonfrost Also, Acid Orb has a range of 20.  That is huge!
#4 Swordior May 26, 2010 10:54:31	Well, while I think its fine as is, to make it a bit better I would make it have a slide like its weapon counter-part or increase its range. Except, one thing I think they were also adding in was Prime Shot. +1 to our ranged attack roll, and the later riders for it, have a high potential of making it better.
#5 chewie8 May 26, 2010 11:01:13	Well, while I think its fine as is, to make it a bit better I would make it have a slide like its weapon counter-part or increase its range. I'm curious to know why you think it's fine.  The damage is decent, but that is basically the only thing it does.  I had thought that adding a slide would be perfect, but I feel that may be a bit too powerful.  The Eldritch Strike is a weapon power, and I was under the impression that these had a tiny bit more power than the ranged versions, due to the difficulties in using it (have to be within melee range).  I think that Dragonfrost serves as a good power to copy.  It does a bit less damage, but adds a damage type and a push.  I think that we could ditch the damage type, keep the push, and keep our d10 damage.  This seems like a powerful At-Will that I think would at least provide something exciting.
#6 mplindustries May 26, 2010 11:14:21	List of ranged basic attacks At-Wills with riders: Avenging Shackles Avenging Light Sun Strike Kinetic Trawl Energy Strobe Dragonfrost Also, Acid Orb has a range of 20.  That is huge! That's right, I was just thinking of the d10 ones.  Looks like they fall into two categories: 1d10 with no special effect (Energy Strobe is too random to really count as a special effect) 1d8 with a tiny forced movement or slow Avenging Light is the only one that actually breaks this mold, though it's second effect is so rarely going to matter, I don't know. I also don't think the ranged 20 means much.  That basically covers the whole map, and most combats are not going to be at much further range than 10 or so squares. But even if it did, the fact that Eldritch Blast is untyped is believed, by the developers, to be a huge benefit, since it ignores all resistances.  That's probably why they consider it balanced. If you wanted to add a special effect, I'd recommend just creating a new power that does 1d8 + the minor effect you want.  The d10 seems reserved for "blank" powers. Honestly, though, the Warlock is such a weak striker, I think making it a d12 with no special rider might be a good idea.
#7 Swordior May 26, 2010 11:22:47	Well, while I think its fine as is, to make it a bit better I would make it have a slide like its weapon counter-part or increase its range. I'm curious to know why you think it's fine.  The damage is decent, but that is basically the only thing it does.  I had thought that adding a slide would be perfect, but I feel that may be a bit too powerful.  The Eldritch Strike is a weapon power, and I was under the impression that these had a tiny bit more power than the ranged versions, due to the difficulties in using it (have to be within melee range).  I think that Dragonfrost serves as a good power to copy.  It does a bit less damage, but adds a damage type and a push.  I think that we could ditch the damage type, keep the push, and keep our d10 damage.  This seems like a powerful At-Will that I think would at least provide something exciting. d10 isn't so bad, it's basically like throwing a greatsword at people (of course you don't get a proficiency bonus.) Mostly it's something that is reliable and can use in most situations. Plus it gets Prime shot, which apparently is pretty good. A push will rarely help anything, so that will probably be fine, or go with what mplindustries said.
#8 Kruxe May 26, 2010 11:28:04	While I agree that eldritch strike is boring, I would say that having no damage type is usually a benefit except for a few minor corner cases. Very few creatures have Resist All, while many have resist fire/cold/lightning/etc. As such I believe it is balanced when compared to other RBA at-wills.
#9 chewie8 May 26, 2010 13:06:36	List of ranged basic attacks At-Wills with riders: Avenging Shackles Avenging Light Sun Strike Kinetic Trawl Energy Strobe Dragonfrost Also, Acid Orb has a range of 20.  That is huge! That's right, I was just thinking of the d10 ones.  Looks like they fall into two categories: 1d10 with no special effect (Energy Strobe is too random to really count as a special effect) 1d8 with a tiny forced movement or slow Avenging Light is the only one that actually breaks this mold, though it's second effect is so rarely going to matter, I don't know. I also don't think the ranged 20 means much.  That basically covers the whole map, and most combats are not going to be at much further range than 10 or so squares. But even if it did, the fact that Eldritch Blast is untyped is believed, by the developers, to be a huge benefit, since it ignores all resistances.  That's probably why they consider it balanced. If you wanted to add a special effect, I'd recommend just creating a new power that does 1d8 + the minor effect you want.  The d10 seems reserved for "blank" powers. Honestly, though, the Warlock is such a weak striker, I think making it a d12 with no special rider might be a good idea. Ah, I see what you mean.  Yes, I now agree that the d10 slot seems to be for vanilla ranged At-Wills.  I guess that the power itself is balanced, but still boring.  My question then becomes, would you rather have Eldritch Strike as is, or would most Warlocks like an At-Will that does 1d8 damage with some rider of sorts.  Since the Warlock steps so far into controller territory, I would enjoy having a rider to help control the battlefield.  Maybe add another power that lets the Warlock choose between three powers: Eldritch Strike Eldritch Blast Eldritch Spike (This one being the new 1d8 w/ rider At-Will) As for the d12 damage, I would think that would be a bit much.  It would certainly help with the damage output of the Warlock, but I don't know if people are still all that riled up about that.  It just seems a bit much (See Spiteful Glamor).
#10 pluisjen May 27, 2010 8:24:57	You could also make a few Style feats to add a few extra options to Eldritch Blast. Of make Daily Powers that have one very big Eldritch Strike, and then a lasting effect on you and/or that modify how Eldritch Strike works for the rest of the encounter. Like so: Form of the Shadow Demon Ranged 10 <> Implement, Fear Attack: Cha vs Fort Hit: 3d10 + Cha mod damage and the target takes a -2 on attack rolls (save ends) Effect: You take on the form of a shadowy demon. Whenever you hit a target with your Eldritch blast it takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
#11 BRJN May 31, 2010 10:23:27	A few thoughts, not translated into Rules Language.  These would be L2 Utility powers. Not So Close: Immediate Reaction * If you are hit by a melee attack, you can shift 1 square and use Eldritch Blast as a free action. L12 improvement: becomes an Immediate Interrupt Eldritch  Advantage: Daily * For the rest of the encounter, you may add one element keyword to your Eldritch Blast.  You may not change the keyword until after you take an extended rest. (maybe this should be an Arcana skill power) Eldritch Brutality: For the rest of the encounter, your Eldritch Blast gains the brutal 2 weapon property. Eldritch Accuracy: You gain the benefit of Prime Shot with Eldritch Blast as long as you are the closest ally not in melee with your target.
#12 urpriest May 31, 2010 11:09:19	Eldritch Accuracy: You gain the benefit of Prime Shot with Eldritch Blast as long as you are the closest ally not in melee with your target. "not in melee" isn't really something that can be consistently captured in the current rules.
#13 BRJN Jun 03, 2010 20:20:50	Urpriest:  Maybe true, but please re-read the first line of my post.
#14 urpriest Jun 04, 2010 0:02:16	Urpriest:  Maybe true, but please re-read the first line of my post. No I fully understand, I'm just saying that your intended design would be rather tricky to implement, and the concept itself might have to shift a little.
#15 ff6shadow Jun 04, 2010 17:46:52	Not hard to capture at all, really. Say . . . .  Eldritch Accuracy * Warlock Level 2 Utility Daily * Arcane Minor Action * Personal Requirement: You must have the Prime Shot class feature and the Eldritch Blast power Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you may ignore allies that are adjacent to the target of your eldritch blast when determining if you can benefit from your Prime Shot class feature. Honestly, it's probably too specific to be a utility. I'd remove the eldritch blast requirements
#16 Janx_14 Jun 06, 2010 15:50:12	Eldritch Blast as is, is a ranged basic attack with a Long Bow with less range. An archer ranger can do the same damage, if not more when using a Greatbow, without using a class power. Acid Orb is in a similar boat, except is acid (which can be resisted), but also has longer range. It is however, also OPTIONAL. Acid orb is the fallback power if you need more range, or have someone who grants you ranged basic attacks. (the Sorceror in my party currently retrained to get Acid Orb due to both reasons). Note, most other caster at-will ranged basic attacks are for controllers and leaders, who are generally supposed to do less damage than strikers. Eldritch blast needs to either be ranged 20, be a d12 instead of a d10 (so it can be a 'crappy' Greatbow ranged basic attack atleast), or perhaps give you a +1 bonus to Warlock attacks against the target until the end of your next turn. Its your class' signature attack, having it be inferior to anyone with a bow's basic attack is a joke. Also, "in Melee" is captured by the word "Adjacent".
#17 urpriest Jun 06, 2010 17:14:01	Also, "in Melee" is captured by the word "Adjacent". Others have confirmed that this was the intent. My initial impression was that "in melee" was intended to be a more complicated designation like that of firing into melee in 3.5, but if all you want it to mean is adjacent then I agree there's nothing difficult about implementing it.