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Elemental Mage - Seeking Help!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
convertingrl
Mar 27, 2009 10:04:11 Fellow Creatures of the Dice,

I'm trying to play ball, I swear I am. I need help, though, and don't know 4e well enough yet to do what needs doing.

To avoid going into any unnecessary detail, my custom campaign setting contains exactly two "magic-using" classes. They are the Gifted, and Bards. There are no wizards, no sorcerers, no clerics (WHAT?!?!?! Yeah, I heard you)... No one can access the Ritual Caster feat but Gifted and Bards. The only power sources that grant anything called "spells" are Arcane (Bards) and Elemental (Gifted).

I'm pretty happy with the Bard as he appears in PHB2; maybe there will be some minor tweaks down the road, but his stock-in-trade lies in information gathering and what used to be called enchantment/charm and illusion effects. Simple.

The Gifted, though... Whole `nother basket of problems. The most solid base for creating the Gifted class thus far seems to be the Genasi race. I'm going to go all free-form brainstorm on you guys for a bit here; tell me if I'm hitting on anything anyone has already done.

Under 3e, when I first started development on this, the Gifted were an extremely feat-heavy class. Each Base Element had a feat associated with it (Soul of Air, Earth, Fire, Water for discussion's sake, though there were more) and so did each delivery method (ray, cone, burst, emanation, missile, wall, whatever else I'm missing). Different delivery methods were (to the best of my ability) balanced by range, duration, and potential targets (a missile had high damage and high range, but only a single target; a wall had very high damage and very limited range, and essentially no targets as a passive defense, emanations had moderate damage, no range but moderate area of effect, and moderate numbers of likely targets, etc).
As characters grew in level, they developed more and more outward manifestations of their elements, eventually becoming elementals (the world has no planar ties to other realms, so elementals themselves are unknown in the setting). From around 4-5 level, a Gifted could be recognized by even the most casual of observers as such, and in the level 14-15-16 range, were almost hazardous for John Q. Villager to be around.
They also learned more elements and more delivery methods, as well as the ability to (through metamagic-style feats) combine those elements and delivery methods. If a PC had spell slots high enough to accommodate such a thing, he could cast a Bursting Emanation Missile of Flaming Corrosive Earth, effectively blowing a crater somewhere over there that would continue to burn, both with heat and with acid, for a long time. (It didn't ever get that broken, though: Imagine the level of even a low-level spell augmented by six different metamagic feats, and you begin to get the idea.)

I need to turn this into something that can happen in 4e.

As means of making it happen, I refer you to the Genasi race in the FRCS, and ask for assistance in seeing it expanded and built upon. The race itself almost covers the entire Heroic tier, if we simply add in the powers one would gain as he progresses in level, drawing from AEFW powers.

In the Paragon tier, Gifted gain access to feats that do the metamagic alterations described above, plus second-tier elements: Wood, Metal, Positive, Negative. Also, some persistent personal effects appear here.

In the Epic tier, still more metamagic alterations allowing for the combining of multiple elements and multiple delivery methods, and the character is transitioning from their previous race into something less recognizable - something we all know as an elemental.

I offer this up to you, o younger but more 4e-experienced DMs. What do you make of it?
#2
Qube
Mar 27, 2009 10:42:45
They are the Gifted, and Bards. There are no wizards, no sorcerers, no clerics (WHAT?!?!?! Yeah, I heard you)

seeing that you kicked out the wizard, and probbably won't allow the druid; I'dd recon you don't have a controller ... (you got warlords and bards as leaders, and enough defenders/striker classes;...)

what makes IMO a controller a controller? area effects (kills multiple minions, damages normals), auto-hit effects (kills minions, barly anoys normals) and status effects

reading your post, I suggest combining chance to hit effects ('effect', 'hit/miss','hit(attack+x)','hit'), with areas (area/burst/multiple targets/single target), delivery methods (mellee / ranged / target within burst), and durations (instantaniously/ until beginning of your next turn / save ends / sustain ).

thinking about it; maybe a new mechanism: your encounter powers/daily attack powers don't actually attack, but all have a 'as part of this power you make an attack with a gifted at will power) --> your encounter/daily powers become your metamagic feats. your encounters could be one shot metamagic, while dailies last an entire encounter.
#3
convertingrl
Mar 27, 2009 13:54:11
seeing that you kicked out the wizard, and probbably won't allow the druid; I'dd recon you don't have a controller ... (you got warlords and bards as leaders, and enough defenders/striker classes;...)

what makes IMO a controller a controller? area effects (kills multiple minions, damages normals), auto-hit effects (kills minions, barly anoys normals) and status effects

reading your post, I suggest combining chance to hit effects ('effect', 'hit/miss','hit(attack+x)','hit'), with areas (area/burst/multiple targets/single target), delivery methods (mellee / ranged / target within burst), and durations (instantaniously/ until beginning of your next turn / save ends / sustain ).

thinking about it; maybe a new mechanism: your encounter powers/daily attack powers don't actually attack, but all have a 'as part of this power you make an attack with a gifted at will power) --> your encounter/daily powers become your metamagic feats. your encounters could be one shot metamagic, while dailies last an entire encounter.

I hadn't considered that possibility... Essentially, it's almost as if we're perfectly inverting the magic system; the "spell" power isn't in what's manifested, but in how it's manifested. That makes an awful lot of sense!

Man, I get a few more posts like this one, I'm home free! Awesome feedback, Qube! Thanks!
#4
convertingrl
Mar 27, 2009 20:36:21 I hate to be a tool about bumps, but would really like to see some feedback on this project.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 convertingrl Mar 27, 2009 10:04:11	Fellow Creatures of the Dice, I'm trying to play ball, I swear I am. I need help, though, and don't know 4e well enough yet to do what needs doing. To avoid going into any unnecessary detail, my custom campaign setting contains exactly two "magic-using" classes. They are the Gifted, and Bards. There are no wizards, no sorcerers, no clerics (WHAT?!?!?! Yeah, I heard you)... No one can access the Ritual Caster feat but Gifted and Bards. The only power sources that grant anything called "spells" are Arcane (Bards) and Elemental (Gifted). I'm pretty happy with the Bard as he appears in PHB2; maybe there will be some minor tweaks down the road, but his stock-in-trade lies in information gathering and what used to be called enchantment/charm and illusion effects. Simple. The Gifted, though... Whole `nother basket of problems. The most solid base for creating the Gifted class thus far seems to be the Genasi race. I'm going to go all free-form brainstorm on you guys for a bit here; tell me if I'm hitting on anything anyone has already done. Under 3e, when I first started development on this, the Gifted were an extremely feat-heavy class. Each Base Element had a feat associated with it (Soul of Air, Earth, Fire, Water for discussion's sake, though there were more) and so did each delivery method (ray, cone, burst, emanation, missile, wall, whatever else I'm missing). Different delivery methods were (to the best of my ability) balanced by range, duration, and potential targets (a missile had high damage and high range, but only a single target; a wall had very high damage and very limited range, and essentially no targets as a passive defense, emanations had moderate damage, no range but moderate area of effect, and moderate numbers of likely targets, etc). As characters grew in level, they developed more and more outward manifestations of their elements, eventually becoming elementals (the world has no planar ties to other realms, so elementals themselves are unknown in the setting). From around 4-5 level, a Gifted could be recognized by even the most casual of observers as such, and in the level 14-15-16 range, were almost hazardous for John Q. Villager to be around. They also learned more elements and more delivery methods, as well as the ability to (through metamagic-style feats) combine those elements and delivery methods. If a PC had spell slots high enough to accommodate such a thing, he could cast a Bursting Emanation Missile of Flaming Corrosive Earth, effectively blowing a crater somewhere over there that would continue to burn, both with heat and with acid, for a long time. (It didn't ever get that broken, though: Imagine the level of even a low-level spell augmented by six different metamagic feats, and you begin to get the idea.) I need to turn this into something that can happen in 4e. As means of making it happen, I refer you to the Genasi race in the FRCS, and ask for assistance in seeing it expanded and built upon. The race itself almost covers the entire Heroic tier, if we simply add in the powers one would gain as he progresses in level, drawing from AEFW powers. In the Paragon tier, Gifted gain access to feats that do the metamagic alterations described above, plus second-tier elements: Wood, Metal, Positive, Negative. Also, some persistent personal effects appear here. In the Epic tier, still more metamagic alterations allowing for the combining of multiple elements and multiple delivery methods, and the character is transitioning from their previous race into something less recognizable - something we all know as an elemental. I offer this up to you, o younger but more 4e-experienced DMs. What do you make of it?
#2 Qube Mar 27, 2009 10:42:45	They are the Gifted, and Bards. There are no wizards, no sorcerers, no clerics (WHAT?!?!?! Yeah, I heard you) seeing that you kicked out the wizard, and probbably won't allow the druid; I'dd recon you don't have a controller ... (you got warlords and bards as leaders, and enough defenders/striker classes;...) what makes IMO a controller a controller? area effects (kills multiple minions, damages normals), auto-hit effects (kills minions, barly anoys normals) and status effects reading your post, I suggest combining chance to hit effects ('effect', 'hit/miss','hit(attack+x)','hit'), with areas (area/burst/multiple targets/single target), delivery methods (mellee / ranged / target within burst), and durations (instantaniously/ until beginning of your next turn / save ends / sustain ). thinking about it; maybe a new mechanism: your encounter powers/daily attack powers don't actually attack, but all have a 'as part of this power you make an attack with a gifted at will power) --> your encounter/daily powers become your metamagic feats. your encounters could be one shot metamagic, while dailies last an entire encounter.
#3 convertingrl Mar 27, 2009 13:54:11	seeing that you kicked out the wizard, and probbably won't allow the druid; I'dd recon you don't have a controller ... (you got warlords and bards as leaders, and enough defenders/striker classes;...) what makes IMO a controller a controller? area effects (kills multiple minions, damages normals), auto-hit effects (kills minions, barly anoys normals) and status effects reading your post, I suggest combining chance to hit effects ('effect', 'hit/miss','hit(attack+x)','hit'), with areas (area/burst/multiple targets/single target), delivery methods (mellee / ranged / target within burst), and durations (instantaniously/ until beginning of your next turn / save ends / sustain ). thinking about it; maybe a new mechanism: your encounter powers/daily attack powers don't actually attack, but all have a 'as part of this power you make an attack with a gifted at will power) --> your encounter/daily powers become your metamagic feats. your encounters could be one shot metamagic, while dailies last an entire encounter. I hadn't considered that possibility... Essentially, it's almost as if we're perfectly inverting the magic system; the "spell" power isn't in what's manifested, but in how it's manifested. That makes an awful lot of sense! Man, I get a few more posts like this one, I'm home free! Awesome feedback, Qube! Thanks!
#4 convertingrl Mar 27, 2009 20:36:21	I hate to be a tool about bumps, but would really like to see some feedback on this project.