Elements in 4ed - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Elements in 4ed

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arcaneone
Aug 25, 2008 23:16:25 I had a situation that came up recently and made me wonder about how people handle elemental keyword items/spells in their games.

Here's the scenario that started it...
Defender is toe to toe with a baddie while waist deep in water. The wizard behind him yells some arcane words and launches a Shocking Burst a few feet behind the baddie so that the area of the spell does not hit his friend, the defender. The spell goes off but the area of effect is increased due to the water. The baddie is fried, the defender is fried....and angry.

Now at first I argued that if spells would be affected by real world physics then that would really change things such as even casting a lightning bolt at a flying target....or anything for that matter! You would shock yourself first!

Anyways we decided as a group not to change spells if they adversely affected the game....but keep them merely for descriptive or roleplay purposes.

I forsee some interesting uses such as our dwarf using his Frost Axe to keep his ale chilled, or cooking steaks with a Fire Broadsword! :D

How do you guys handle elemental spells & items?
#2
serphet
Aug 25, 2008 23:22:09 if its out of combat fluff , or descriptive context (maybe catching something on fire with a flaming weapon to help an intimidate) I let it fly, and reward the character for his creativity (DM's best friend, DMG 42).

If its in combat I usually don't let the attacks get more powerful (larger/stronger), however if there is a hazard (like a gunpowder room) then I may do something different, treat it as a hazard (DMG 85-93)
#3
Cohen95
Aug 25, 2008 23:50:47 Magical effects do not generally interact with mundane physics. They outright ignore them, and physics, not being capable of explaining magical effects, politely ignore them back.

So, when it comes to flavor? Heck yeah, flavor it up!

But, mechanics? No, especially not the way you described. The player was careful to target so that his ally would not be hurt. As a wizard (presumably one with a high intelligence), he would have known that the effect would have been enlarged by the water, and still would have targeted not to hurt his ally, so, any way you slice it, it shouldn't have hurt the ally.
#4
tylelian
Aug 26, 2008 21:24:45 Years ago under 1st and 2nd edition the enviroment had an adverse effect on spells (lightning bolts turned into balls under water, etc.) Utimately, it depends on you as a DM. I don't think its unreasonable to assume you can't have pin-point accuracy if your foolish enough to throw around lightning spells while waste deep in water. If you allow players to use the enviroment to their own advantage I would think it would be unfair to say that the disadvantages of enviroment don't matter. If a fireball were to go off in the same room, would you allow for extra reflex defence and reduced damage as your players duck under the water?
#5
lord_tirian
Aug 27, 2008 13:23:40
I let it fly, and reward the character for his creativity (DM's best friend, DMG 42).

Yup. With a fitting explanation/description, I'd allow a hard skill check (Arcana, Religion, Athletics/Acrobatics, depending on your power source) for the lowest repeatable damage for the level. That's not working every time, but as a freebie... why not?

Though I'd allow NPCs and critters the same tactics. ;)

Cheers, LT.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arcaneone Aug 25, 2008 23:16:25	I had a situation that came up recently and made me wonder about how people handle elemental keyword items/spells in their games. Here's the scenario that started it... Defender is toe to toe with a baddie while waist deep in water. The wizard behind him yells some arcane words and launches a Shocking Burst a few feet behind the baddie so that the area of the spell does not hit his friend, the defender. The spell goes off but the area of effect is increased due to the water. The baddie is fried, the defender is fried....and angry. Now at first I argued that if spells would be affected by real world physics then that would really change things such as even casting a lightning bolt at a flying target....or anything for that matter! You would shock yourself first! Anyways we decided as a group not to change spells if they adversely affected the game....but keep them merely for descriptive or roleplay purposes. I forsee some interesting uses such as our dwarf using his Frost Axe to keep his ale chilled, or cooking steaks with a Fire Broadsword! :D How do you guys handle elemental spells & items?
#2 serphet Aug 25, 2008 23:22:09	if its out of combat fluff , or descriptive context (maybe catching something on fire with a flaming weapon to help an intimidate) I let it fly, and reward the character for his creativity (DM's best friend, DMG 42). If its in combat I usually don't let the attacks get more powerful (larger/stronger), however if there is a hazard (like a gunpowder room) then I may do something different, treat it as a hazard (DMG 85-93)
#3 Cohen95 Aug 25, 2008 23:50:47	Magical effects do not generally interact with mundane physics. They outright ignore them, and physics, not being capable of explaining magical effects, politely ignore them back. So, when it comes to flavor? Heck yeah, flavor it up! But, mechanics? No, especially not the way you described. The player was careful to target so that his ally would not be hurt. As a wizard (presumably one with a high intelligence), he would have known that the effect would have been enlarged by the water, and still would have targeted not to hurt his ally, so, any way you slice it, it shouldn't have hurt the ally.
#4 tylelian Aug 26, 2008 21:24:45	Years ago under 1st and 2nd edition the enviroment had an adverse effect on spells (lightning bolts turned into balls under water, etc.) Utimately, it depends on you as a DM. I don't think its unreasonable to assume you can't have pin-point accuracy if your foolish enough to throw around lightning spells while waste deep in water. If you allow players to use the enviroment to their own advantage I would think it would be unfair to say that the disadvantages of enviroment don't matter. If a fireball were to go off in the same room, would you allow for extra reflex defence and reduced damage as your players duck under the water?
#5 lord_tirian Aug 27, 2008 13:23:40	I let it fly, and reward the character for his creativity (DM's best friend, DMG 42). Yup. With a fitting explanation/description, I'd allow a hard skill check (Arcana, Religion, Athletics/Acrobatics, depending on your power source) for the lowest repeatable damage for the level. That's not working every time, but as a freebie... why not? Though I'd allow NPCs and critters the same tactics. ;) Cheers, LT.