Elite Minions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 traxlenak_dup Nov 20, 2008 15:45:24	Okay, I have been using 4th edition like I have been using every other version of D&D since I have been 14 years old...more as guidelines. I have never had a problem with the Skill encounters, cause the DC's were more defined by myself as the DM and the players than the book from the first day. (just wanted you to know what type of DM I am) I came up with an idea, and my friend convinced me of posting it on the boards. It is... Elite Minions - a monster that takes two hits before it dies I *love* minions. They are one of my favorite things about 4th ed. and I have transported them over to other systems since (SWSE) Elite Minions are half the xp of a regular monster Elite minions are bloodied when hit Bloodied Elite minions die when hit Elite minions usually have a special ability when not bloodied, or a special ability that happens when bloodied, or a special ability when bloodied. Elite minions do average damage instead of minimum damage This is one of the examples of elite minions that I sent up against my party of 13th level characters, along with some other homebrew characters Human Longsword Specialist Human Longsword Specialist Lvl 13 Elite Minion Medium Natural Humanoid XP 400 Str 18, Con 15, Dex 12, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 14 +10 +8 +7 +6 +7 +8 Init: +9 Senses: Perception +7 HP: (when the specialist is dealt damage twice, he is defeated) AC: 28 Fort: 25 Ref: 23 Will: 24 Speed: 5 Longsword: /roll 1d20+19 vs. AC 9 damage Crossbow: /roll 1d20+16 vs. AC 6 damage Mob rule: +2 defenses while 2 human allies are within 5 squares Hold the line! (move action): make an standard attack other crew Human Bodyguard Lvl 13 Soldier Medium Natural Humanoid XP 800 str: 20 con: 18 dex: 15 int: 11 wis: 12 cha: 13 +11 +10 +8 +6 +7 +7 Init: +10 Senses: Perception +12 HP: 130 Bloodied: 65 AC: 27 Fort: 26 Ref: 24 Will: 23 Speed: 5 Halberd(standard attack)(reach 2): /roll 1d20+20 vs. AC /roll 1d10+8 damage, and the target is marked Powerful Strike(reach 2): /roll 1d20+20 vs. AC /roll 1d10+14 damage, and the target is knocked prone Whirlwind attack: Make Halberd attack against three enemies in range (encounter) Bodyguard: Immediate interrupt: take damage for any adjacent ally (recharge 3.4.5.6) Eladrin Fey Mage Lvl 13 Controller Medium Natural Humanoid XP 800 str: 13 con: 11 dex: 17 int: 21 wis: 13 cha: 16 +7 +6 +9 +11 +7 +9 Init: +9 Senses: Perception +7, low light vision HP:102 Bloodied:51 AC: 28 Fort: 23 Ref: 27 Will: 25 Speed: 6 Spear(standard attack): /roll 1d20+13 vs. AC /roll 1d8+4 dmg, the target is slowed: end next turn Binding Bolt (ranged): /roll 1d20+17 vs. Reflex /roll 2d4+8 dmg, target is immobilized (save ends) Teleporting Bolt(ranged): /roll 1d20+17 vs. Reflex /roll 1d8+8 dmg. target is teleported up to 3 squar Dazzling Blast (Standard: recharge 4,5,6) Radiant, close blast 3: /roll 1d20+17 vs. Will /roll 2d8+8 dmg, targets are blinded until end of next turn Ethereal binding (standard: encounter) burst 2 within 10: /roll 1d20+17 vs. Ref /roll 3d6+8 dmg, targets are immobilized and dazed (save ends both) Fey Step
#2 noonesshowmonkey Nov 21, 2008 13:28:51	I actually use these rules almost word for word. ~~~~ Elite Minions have Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 their level +1. Elite Minions are bloodied on their first hit. Bloodied Elite Minions are destroyed on their second hit. If a primary, single target attack targets an Elite Minion and deals enough damage to bypass the damage reduction, the Elite Minion is destroyed. ~~~~ Most of my elite minions function with a bloodied ability (increasing damage by 50% is brutal, so is increasing their defenses by +2) or are used in conjunction with a Leader mob that gives an aura of some kind (which can reset them from bloodied to normal, from time to time). Overall, it has been a smashing success. The note about single target damage is important since if a player hits a minion and does max damage or whatever, they deserve to kill the minion. They are minions afterall. Remember that if a player hits twice for at or near max damage that can sometimes equal or draw close to the full HP of a standard monster. If that is the case, there is something seriously wrong and the two hit rule is giving the minion far more effective hitpoints than you initially planned. What the rules I use avoid are the overly effective use of things like Flaming Burst to kill whole swathes of minions for easy XP - if you can't overcome the DR they aren't even affected by the power. This also makes for cleave-immune monsters (Great for flanking! GOOD GOD!). Anyhow, thats what I have done and it works like a giddamn charm.
#3 argentos Nov 22, 2008 16:54:11	I love this idea. I'd probably employ my own tweaks to spice it up a bit (hey, isn't that what we're supposed to do?), but I really like what each of you have written. Specifically, though, you should consider this, Traxlenak: The note about single target damage is important since if a player hits a minion and does max damage or whatever, they deserve to kill the minion. They are minions afterall. Remember that if a player hits twice for at or near max damage that can sometimes equal or draw close to the full HP of a standard monster. If that is the case, there is something seriously wrong and the two hit rule is giving the minion far more effective hitpoints than you initially planned. Regardless of whether you warm up to his DR idea or not, you should possibly employ some kind of crit block. Maybe, on a roll of 18, 19, or 20, the Elite Minion dies? Exception to that could be if the player rolls less than half of the die's damage on the 18/19.
#4 evilkobra Nov 26, 2008 10:11:11	I've also used "elite minions" in my campaign, to represent drugged-up cultists who plain ignore minor damage, and just charge the PCs. I was also inspired by the wonderful Left 4 Dead co-op experience, where individual zombies are weak but you simply cannot shake them off by yourself when caught: you absolutely require help or you will die. In my campaign, these Vecna cultists would try to swarm the PCs, with a cumulative effect - the first one would grab a PC, the second would restrain it, and the third would deal the killing blow. Because it's highly unlikely that all three attacks would succeed (or, in fact, that they could be made at all) in a single round, when a PC became grabbed or restrained it became an "oh st! oh st! OH S**T!" situation as they tried to shake them all off before the next round. Here's the stat block I used: Drugged Vecnite Cultist - Level 3 Elite Minion Medium Natural Humanoid (Human) XP 75 Initiative +2 Perception +4 HP 2; Bloodied 1 AC 15; Fortitude 17, Reflex 14, Will 13 Resist 5 all damage; an attack that would inflict 6 or more damage on the Cultist causes it to lose a single hit point instead. If an attack scores a critical hit against the Cultist, it is immediately reduced to 0 hit points. Speed 6 M Dagger (standard; at-will) +7 vs AC; 5 damage. m Dogpile (standard; at-will) +5 vs Fortitude; 3 damage and the target is grabbed. If the target was already grabbed by another Vecnite Cultist, the target is knocked prone and restrained (escape ends) instead. This power may be used when charging. m Pluck Eye (standard; at-will) +4 vs Reflex; 3d8 + 3 damage and the target is blinded (save ends). This attack may only target a restrained or helpless creature. Alignment: Evil Str 16 (+4) Dex 12 (+2) Wis 10 (+1) Con 12 (+2) Int 8 (0) Cha 8 (0)
#5 Fingolfin_Aeros Dec 02, 2008 22:46:08	In my campaign I'm running something I call "Lackeys" wich are, for all intents and purposes, your Elite Minions. My exceptions are statting an HP value (~1/4 the non-minion version's HP) which has worked similarly to the 2 hit rule, a resist 2/all, and keeping the minion miss rule. So far they've worked fairly well. I haven't tried them in mass yet, just a few sprinkled in with regular minions.
#6 mellored Dec 04, 2008 10:41:56	Looks good, but as suggested, a crit from a rogue can take down a normal, so it should take down the minion. Give them some sort of value that, when exceeded, kills them in one shot. For a lvl 1 Elite Minion it could be something like 15-20. (rogues do 14-24)
#7 nthdegree256 Dec 05, 2008 15:30:07	I play in the OP's campaign and the Elite Minions have been a smashing success. One of the great things about them is that tracking their "HP" is not nearly as hard as you might expect. After all, one of the reasons a group of minions is easy to use is because you don't have to track 4 seperate HP totals, right? Well, as it turns out, with Elite Minions, the DM does almost no extra work. because we already have a method of easily tracking monsters at half HP: we put a "Bloodied" marker on them. For tabletop games, this is usually a little red glass bead, and for games over Maptool, it's just a quick mouse-click to set its status. I'm not entirely convinced that any special rules for massive damage are needed, simply because the odds of one-shotting a regular monster are almost nil. Let's take the hypothetical case of a level 1 rogue with 18 Dex and 16 Cha, critting with Sneak Attack, a shortsword, and Sly Flourish; 6+6+6+4+3 = 25 damage. A regular kobold skirmisher has 27 HP. Granted, it's very close and a superior weapon or the Backstabber feat could push them just over the edge, but that's a severe corner case. If it still bugs you, though, I'd either set the damage threshold as the HP of an equivalent-level skirmisher, or - easier yet! - just swipe the Zombie Weakness "ability" from the zombie statblocks. A critical hit is an instant kill. This is "less realistic," but arguably better because it saves time - you don't have to bother adding up damage totals and rolling crit dice, you just knock 'em down a step if you hit and kill 'em outright if you crit. Done.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

traxlenak_dup

Nov 20, 2008 15:45:24

Okay, I have been using 4th edition like I have been using every other version of D&D since I have been 14 years old...more as guidelines.

I have never had a problem with the Skill encounters, cause the DC's were more defined by myself as the DM and the players than the book from the first day. (just wanted you to know what type of DM I am)

I came up with an idea, and my friend convinced me of posting it on the boards.

It is...

Elite Minions - a monster that takes two hits before it dies

I love minions. They are one of my favorite things about 4th ed. and I have transported them over to other systems since (SWSE)

Elite Minions are half the xp of a regular monster

Elite minions are bloodied when hit

Bloodied Elite minions die when hit

Elite minions usually have a special ability when not bloodied, or a special ability that happens when bloodied, or a special ability when bloodied.

Elite minions do average damage instead of minimum damage

This is one of the examples of elite minions that I sent up against my party of 13th level characters, along with some other homebrew characters

Human Longsword Specialist

Human Longsword Specialist Lvl 13 Elite Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 400
Str 18, Con 15, Dex 12, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 14
+10 +8 +7 +6 +7 +8
Init: +9 Senses: Perception +7
HP: (when the specialist is dealt damage twice, he is defeated)
AC: 28 Fort: 25 Ref: 23 Will: 24
Speed: 5
Longsword: /roll 1d20+19 vs. AC 9 damage
Crossbow: /roll 1d20+16 vs. AC 6 damage
Mob rule: +2 defenses while 2 human allies are within 5 squares
Hold the line! (move action): make an standard attack

other crew

Human Bodyguard Lvl 13 Soldier
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 800
str: 20 con: 18 dex: 15 int: 11 wis: 12 cha: 13
+11 +10 +8 +6 +7 +7
Init: +10 Senses: Perception +12
HP: 130 Bloodied: 65
AC: 27 Fort: 26 Ref: 24 Will: 23
Speed: 5
Halberd(standard attack)(reach 2): /roll 1d20+20 vs. AC /roll 1d10+8 damage, and the target is marked
Powerful Strike(reach 2): /roll 1d20+20 vs. AC /roll 1d10+14 damage, and the target is knocked prone
Whirlwind attack: Make Halberd attack against three enemies in range (encounter)
Bodyguard: Immediate interrupt: take damage for any adjacent ally (recharge 3.4.5.6)

Eladrin Fey Mage Lvl 13 Controller
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 800
str: 13 con: 11 dex: 17 int: 21 wis: 13 cha: 16
+7 +6 +9 +11 +7 +9
Init: +9 Senses: Perception +7, low light vision
HP:102 Bloodied:51
AC: 28 Fort: 23 Ref: 27 Will: 25
Speed: 6
Spear(standard attack): /roll 1d20+13 vs. AC /roll 1d8+4 dmg, the target is slowed: end next turn
Binding Bolt (ranged): /roll 1d20+17 vs. Reflex /roll 2d4+8 dmg, target is immobilized (save ends)
Teleporting Bolt(ranged): /roll 1d20+17 vs. Reflex /roll 1d8+8 dmg. target is teleported up to 3 squar
Dazzling Blast (Standard: recharge 4,5,6) Radiant, close blast 3: /roll 1d20+17 vs. Will
/roll 2d8+8 dmg, targets are blinded until end of next turn
Ethereal binding (standard: encounter) burst 2 within 10: /roll 1d20+17 vs. Ref
/roll 3d6+8 dmg, targets are immobilized and dazed (save ends both)
Fey Step

noonesshowmonkey

Nov 21, 2008 13:28:51

I actually use these rules almost word for word.

~~~~

Elite Minions have Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 their level +1.

Elite Minions are bloodied on their first hit.

Bloodied Elite Minions are destroyed on their second hit.

If a primary, single target attack targets an Elite Minion and deals enough damage to bypass the damage reduction, the Elite Minion is destroyed.

~~~~

Most of my elite minions function with a bloodied ability (increasing damage by 50% is brutal, so is increasing their defenses by +2) or are used in conjunction with a Leader mob that gives an aura of some kind (which can reset them from bloodied to normal, from time to time).

Overall, it has been a smashing success.

The note about single target damage is important since if a player hits a minion and does max damage or whatever, they deserve to kill the minion. They are minions afterall. Remember that if a player hits twice for at or near max damage that can sometimes equal or draw close to the full HP of a standard monster. If that is the case, there is something seriously wrong and the two hit rule is giving the minion far more effective hitpoints than you initially planned.

What the rules I use avoid are the overly effective use of things like Flaming Burst to kill whole swathes of minions for easy XP - if you can't overcome the DR they aren't even affected by the power. This also makes for cleave-immune monsters (Great for flanking! GOOD GOD!).

Anyhow, thats what I have done and it works like a giddamn charm.

argentos

Nov 22, 2008 16:54:11

I love this idea. I'd probably employ my own tweaks to spice it up a bit (hey, isn't that what we're supposed to do?), but I really like what each of you have written.

Specifically, though, you should consider this, Traxlenak:

The note about single target damage is important since if a player hits a minion and does max damage or whatever, they deserve to kill the minion. They are minions afterall. Remember that if a player hits twice for at or near max damage that can sometimes equal or draw close to the full HP of a standard monster. If that is the case, there is something seriously wrong and the two hit rule is giving the minion far more effective hitpoints than you initially planned.

Regardless of whether you warm up to his DR idea or not, you should possibly employ some kind of crit block. Maybe, on a roll of 18, 19, or 20, the Elite Minion dies? Exception to that could be if the player rolls less than half of the die's damage on the 18/19.

evilkobra

Nov 26, 2008 10:11:11

I've also used "elite minions" in my campaign, to represent drugged-up cultists who plain ignore minor damage, and just charge the PCs. I was also inspired by the wonderful Left 4 Dead co-op experience, where individual zombies are weak but you simply cannot shake them off by yourself when caught: you absolutely require help or you will die.

In my campaign, these Vecna cultists would try to swarm the PCs, with a cumulative effect - the first one would grab a PC, the second would restrain it, and the third would deal the killing blow. Because it's highly unlikely that all three attacks would succeed (or, in fact, that they could be made at all) in a single round, when a PC became grabbed or restrained it became an "oh s**t! oh s**t! OH S**T!" situation as they tried to shake them all off before the next round.

Here's the stat block I used:

Drugged Vecnite Cultist - Level 3 Elite Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid (Human) XP 75

Initiative +2
Perception +4
HP 2; Bloodied 1
AC 15; Fortitude 17, Reflex 14, Will 13
Resist 5 all damage; an attack that would inflict 6 or more damage on the Cultist causes it to lose a single hit point instead. If an attack scores a critical hit against the Cultist, it is immediately reduced to 0 hit points.
Speed 6

M Dagger (standard; at-will)
+7 vs AC; 5 damage.

m Dogpile (standard; at-will)
+5 vs Fortitude; 3 damage and the target is grabbed. If the target was already grabbed by another Vecnite Cultist, the target is knocked prone and restrained (escape ends) instead. This power may be used when charging.

m Pluck Eye (standard; at-will)
+4 vs Reflex; 3d8 + 3 damage and the target is blinded (save ends). This attack may only target a restrained or helpless creature.

Alignment: Evil
Str 16 (+4) Dex 12 (+2) Wis 10 (+1)
Con 12 (+2) Int 8 (0) Cha 8 (0)

Fingolfin_Aeros

Dec 02, 2008 22:46:08

In my campaign I'm running something I call "Lackeys" wich are, for all intents and purposes, your Elite Minions. My exceptions are statting an HP value (~1/4 the non-minion version's HP) which has worked similarly to the 2 hit rule, a resist 2/all, and keeping the minion miss rule.

So far they've worked fairly well. I haven't tried them in mass yet, just a few sprinkled in with regular minions.

mellored

Dec 04, 2008 10:41:56

Looks good, but as suggested, a crit from a rogue can take down a normal, so it should take down the minion. Give them some sort of value that, when exceeded, kills them in one shot.

For a lvl 1 Elite Minion it could be something like 15-20. (rogues do 14-24)

nthdegree256

Dec 05, 2008 15:30:07

I play in the OP's campaign and the Elite Minions have been a smashing success.

One of the great things about them is that tracking their "HP" is not nearly as hard as you might expect. After all, one of the reasons a group of minions is easy to use is because you don't have to track 4 seperate HP totals, right? Well, as it turns out, with Elite Minions, the DM does almost no extra work. because we already have a method of easily tracking monsters at half HP: we put a "Bloodied" marker on them. For tabletop games, this is usually a little red glass bead, and for games over Maptool, it's just a quick mouse-click to set its status.

I'm not entirely convinced that any special rules for massive damage are needed, simply because the odds of one-shotting a regular monster are almost nil. Let's take the hypothetical case of a level 1 rogue with 18 Dex and 16 Cha, critting with Sneak Attack, a shortsword, and Sly Flourish; 6+6+6+4+3 = 25 damage. A regular kobold skirmisher has 27 HP. Granted, it's very close and a superior weapon or the Backstabber feat could push them just over the edge, but that's a severe corner case.

If it still bugs you, though, I'd either set the damage threshold as the HP of an equivalent-level skirmisher, or - easier yet! - just swipe the Zombie Weakness "ability" from the zombie statblocks. A critical hit is an instant kill. This is "less realistic," but arguably better because it saves time - you don't have to bother adding up damage totals and rolling crit dice, you just knock 'em down a step if you hit and kill 'em outright if you crit. Done.