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#1 Ryuu_Tenshi Nov 20, 2008 13:08:43	If this is in the wrong place, I sincerely apologize; it has been some time since I have perused the fora and thus I am unfamiliar with where things should and should not be. Since THAT'S out of the way... Since I've started playing 4e, I've noticed that the game is ideally suited to emulating my personal favourite MMO, Guild Wars. The way the classes, monsters, and abilities are set up are ideal for simulating the world of Guild Wars. Thus, as a thought experiment, I propose trying to come up with a proper ruleset for a Guild Wars campaign setting, for the purposes of potentially running a campaign based on the world. Most of this is going to be general thoughts rather than concrete rules, since I'm still not 100% familiar with 4e (I have trouble with monsters especially). [u]Classes[/u] Firstly, all player characters would actually have two classes, a primary class and a secondary. Basically, they would get the class abilities of their primary class, but be able to pick and choose from two power lists rather than one. So, for the sake of argument let's say you are a Fighter/Cleric - you would only get Fighter class abilities, and would not have Healing Word or Channel Divinity, but you would be able to pick Cleric powers as you please - so Cure Light Wounds is fair game. This would count as being multiclassed for purposes of paragon paths. Now, onto how to emulate Guild Wars classes in DnD 4e: Arranged as: GW Class Name - DnD role. Which DnD class is best for emulating it/special rules/notes Core Classes Fighter - Defender. Simple, use Fighters with no modification. Ranger - Defender. Same deal, but possibly restrict the TWPF style of ranger (since GW rangers are bow only, as far as I recall) and add in the Pet ranger from Martial Power. Monk - Leader. Cleric powers fit the monk VERY well, combining all the aspects of Smiting, Healing, and Protection - the question is wether to allow them to use their armor or not, since the GW style monk does not wear armor. I'm of the opinion that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, so I figure let them have armor and maces and don't worry about it. Mesmer - Controller? Striker?. Mesmers are tricky, even in Guild Wars itself - they're primarily known for layering on conditions and damage over time (a very Controller-esque ability) but they can also spike very effectively and focus primarily on single targets, whilst DnD controllers seem to focus on multiple targets. I'm going to -tentatively- suggest using Fey-pact and possibly Dark-pact Warlocks to simulate the Mesmer, and restrict the Star Pact and Infernal Pact warlocks - unless significant reflavoring is done to both. Either way, the Fey-pact warlock would have to be reflavored to properly fit the Mesmer, to a more bard-like class. The other issue is how to simulate the Mesmer's Energy regain abilities (as well as fast casting and quick recharge), one of their very classical elements - the ability to recharge one's own powers is a tricky thing to give players in any case. Elementalist - Striker? Controller? Elementalists are equally tricky. While they do have a lot of AoE powers and certainly feel like wizards, they are also known for their spiking and direct damage spells. However, I feel that Wizard ultimately fits the Elementalist best, as they use a wide variety of elemental based powers, many of which inflict AoE damage. Necromancer - Leader? Striker? Controller? Necromancers are probably the hardest of this bunch for me to define - there's really no precedent in 4e yet for this sort of character. Primarily, Necromancers focus on three things - Death Magic, which is mostly raising dead things to go and fight for you; Blood Magic, which drains health from enemies to recharge powers, heal oneself and then sometimes heal allies; and Hexes, which layer on status effects and spikes. Some of what they do is leader-ish - they direct their minions and sometimes help to restore the powers of allies and otherwise buff them, but some of what they do is controller-ish (minons control the battlefield; layering of AoE damage and status effects). I'll tentitively say Leader but I'm still not certain how the raising of the dead should work, though I like how the mechanic in Guild Wars actually -works-: you get a bonus when things die, and then can raise the corpses as allies that last a short period of time. Factions Classes Assassin - Striker. Probably best simulated with the Rogue. Lots of stabby death, lots of sneaking about. Ritualist - Leader. This, like the Necromancer, is a tricky one; however, it is possible that a significant reflavoring of the Artificer could work well, given that the Ritualist functions in a VERY similar manner. Instead of Artifices, we would have Spirits that the Ritualist summons through her connection to her ancestors. It very much retains the same effects but with a different flavor and feel. Nightfall Classes Paragon - Leader. The Warlord can be used here with almost no reflavoring at all. Dervish - Striker? Controller?. I had a lot of trouble thinking about how to do the Dervish - they are an AoE condition layering sort, but they can absorb a LOT of damage and dish it out. Then there's simulating the Avatar powers. However, I think that the Barbarian might be usable with some reflavoring - make them divine, make the Rages various connections to the different Gods, and give them scythes. It is quite similar in some ways - a high HP warrior with little to no armor who alters themselves to fight better. [u]Races[/u] This will be a short list as I don't have a Monster Manual with me and thus can't really think about how to do various races; it will instead be simply a list of what is and isn't in Guild Wars; later I will consider what bonuses/penalties they get and their abilities. Humans - the default and most common, most players should be human and other races should be discouraged. Dwarves - Are dwarves. Norn - Giant-folk. Large creatures, as a daily racial power can turn into an alternate form (bear) - should work like Barbarian rage. Asura - Probably just use the stats for Gnomes Charr - large horned hyena-folk; might use stats similar to orcs/half orcs; should have an ability that gives them a bonus when they use abilities with the Fire keyword. Tengu - bird-folk a la the traditional Japanese type; very warlike; +2 dex +2 ??? Centaur - how to adapt these to a player race I'm not entirely sure yet... [u]Monsters[/u] Still working on this; for a list of beasties in Guild Wars: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bestiary ^there Well? Thoughts?
#2 kazuhiro Nov 20, 2008 13:26:57	I don't know 4e, but I sure know guild wars, and I sure as hell know Mesmers! -- Rangers in GW are practically identical to 3.5e Rangers. They fight with cleverness as well as bows. Ever seen a "thumper?" They keep a pet around for no reason other to boost their DPS, then they use ranger skills to improve their hammer attacks. I imagine that there must be some 4e Ranger powers that can be used for either melee or ranged combat, so let them keep those. Mesmer: The most specific and important role of the Mesmer in either PvE or PvP is to mess with opponents. The diversity you see in them (Single-target damage as well as overall control) is a result of extremely specific builds, not the Mesmer's base powers. The best re-creation of a Mesmer would be-- Controller sounds right, but it sounds like "controller" is referring to "crowd control." What you want is Bard-esque spells and abilities. The 3.5 Bard is a lot like a Mesmer. Elementalists are nukers. Don't worry yourself trying to let them fit as air spikers, too. Necromancers, pfft, you're on your own. Good choice with Barbarian as Dervish. You might want to think outside of the box a little. How could you give characters a Guild Wars flavor without having to define them into the classes from the game?