Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mplindustries May 09, 2010 23:18:17	I've been away from D&D for almost a year now (not by choice), but it seems that an opportunity to play, or more precisely, run it, will be coming soon.  I'm excited to do it again, but I've always had a few issues with the way the game(s) work that I'd like to see if I can remedy that. This is likely to be rather lengthy, but my goal is to discuss my issues with the rules, propose some modifications, and get some feedback on whether or not such things will cause unforseen problems.  As the thread title hints, my biggest concern is that the balance of the game as written is inextricably tied to the four-encounter per day paradigm (a paradigm I've never shared and have no interest in adopting), but I'll get to the specifics on that later.  Some of this is based on things I've seen here on the forums a long time ago, when I expressed similar issues, so if you see something you've seen before, I apologize. I'm going to separate the houserules into categories so that they don't just run together into a big wall of text.  I'm also going to split the relatively minor changes from the major one I am most looking for feedback on, namely my attempt to move away from the four encounter per day paradigm. Simple Houserules that are not especially world-shattering "Standard" Math fixes My first set of houserules consists of minor math fixes.  From what I've read, they seem to be commonly accepted as "standard houserules," since it is all but obvious that WotC messed up their math on release, and created some feats to plug the holes rather than just admitting their mistakes. 1) Expunge the various Expertise feats from the records and instead give all PCs a +1 to all attacks at 5th, 15th, and 25th level. 2) Likewise, remove Paragon Defenses and Robust Defenses and give all PCs +1 to all NADs at 11th and 21s level. 3) While it is relatively unimportant to mention as it doesn't affect players, I am planning on increasing monster damage in the later tiers almost across the board, as it is obvious, and I think commonly accepted, that monster damage values increase at a much slower rate than player Hit Points, nevermind player healing.
#2 pluisjen May 10, 2010 2:11:02	So...much...change... It's totally overwhelming and I really can't imagine how all those rules are going to interact... for one thing, it's going to mean your characters are going to be pretty damn powerful with all those free feats and bonus equipment they get. It's also going to mean they'll get killed all the time because of the surge limitation, because eventually someone will be going into a battle with 1 HP and either sit it out completely, chew up all the party's healing in the first two rounds leaving everyone without healing for the actual encounter or go down on the first blow. Oh and until fifth level this means that Daily powers are Encounter powers because you only have one, anyway. This hardly changes at higher level; everyone will pick a single daily with a massive impact and use that during every fight. The same goes for Weapon daily; nobody will carry more then one item with a daily power, because you can't use the rest. And nobody will have more then one Daily Utility either.  That's all guesswork of course; you've changed so much that I might simply be wrong due to how things work together... your best bet is testing this with your players and seeing if it is any fun.
#3 stargazer_dragon May 10, 2010 3:33:44	I am curently testing a few similar rules to remove the 4 encounter feal of the game, as for the other changes personaly I would sugest not using them or at least use one at a time and slwoly intigrate them in so that you can feal out which ones should or should not be used. For me I curently use recharging daily, racial, and healing surges Racial powers have a chance to recharge at the beginning of each players round (recharge 6) but this was just a player decided houserule. (since the monsteres versions of the race get more out of the racial powers this made the players happier) didn't effect game balence noticeable so far. For the issue of 4 encounter I solved it by the following Extended rest no longer recovered daily powers. Daily powers have a chance to recover one power after each fight. (recharge 6, got 1 easier every time it failed to recharge (recharge 5,4,3,2. Basicaly means at least once every 4 battles they got a daily power back) they didn't get daily powers back by extended rest though. (rp acheivments count as encounters for this purpose) This does allow a few more uses of daily powers depending on the dice but makes 1 encounter days and 50 encounter days on even footing. Healing surges I use recharge 1d6 every milestone.
#4 mplindustries May 10, 2010 12:53:45	It's totally overwhelming and I really can't imagine how all those rules are going to interact... for one thing, it's going to mean your characters are going to be pretty damn powerful with all those free feats and bonus equipment they get. Well, I do like them being more powerful, but remember that I'm severely restricting Items.  Normal characters have what, ~8 items each?  My players will have the equivalent of 3 each, and I might, might give out Rewards ala the DMG2.  Ultimately, I think they'll end up with maybe two additional rewards.  That's still fewer items than normal, so I make up the difference with feats and attributes. Also, there's only three of them, and I tend not to pull punches. It's also going to mean they'll get killed all the time because of the surge limitation, because eventually someone will be going into a battle with 1 HP and either sit it out completely, chew up all the party's healing in the first two rounds leaving everyone without healing for the actual encounter or go down on the first blow. I would hope they'd be more careful than that.  Also note that I didn't change Extended Rests, but I guess that wasn't clear enough. Actually, as a side note, the only time I've ever used Rituals was for major plot events, and I do not allow resurrections.  I am a bit lenient, though, on enemies taking prisoners and whatnot.  They'd have to be pretty stupid to actually die permanently.  Oh and until fifth level this means that Daily powers are Encounter powers because you only have one, anyway. This hardly changes at higher level; everyone will pick a single daily with a massive impact and use that during every fight. I guess I didn't clarify enough.  The Daily powers are still expended for the day when they are used.  You still need an Extended Rest to get them back.  So, you can't use the same Daily power encounter after encounter, you just can't use more than one.  The same goes for Weapon daily; nobody will carry more then one item with a daily power, because you can't use the rest. And nobody will have more then one Daily Utility either. Honestly, that'd be my preferred aesthetic anyway.  I don't like Daily resources at all, but really can't eliminate them completely.  But as I clarified, the Daily powers you use are still expended for the day. Your objections to the Daily power thing did make me notice a potential snag.  I want to be able to run 1 encounter per day or 10 encounters per day.  Should I allow Daily powers to recharge after two milestones?  That way, it mimics the way the game was intended to be played (Four encounters followed by an extended rest where everything recharges)?
#5 pluisjen May 10, 2010 13:42:39	Is your main issue with tracking resources past the single encounter, or is it with the idea that if you sleep you get your powers back, which invites people to sleep all the time? If it is the last, that's fairly simple to fix if you give players these two options to recharge powers: * They succeed at the challenge Regardless of the number of challenges, when they beat the boss, their powers come back. You control the length of the challenge. Sometimes its that 1 encounter you wanted to run before they recharge, sometimes its 4 and sometimes is 20... no recharge until they are done. * They choose to fail the challenge Regardless of how far they are, whether or not sleeping would be possible, etc, etc. The players, as a team, simply state "We choose to fail". When the palyers do this, they immediately recharge all their powers (you can't do this in an encounter, only during a short rest) but you as the DM put some serious story consequences on this failure (the prisoner dies, the evil ritual is completed, the demon is summoned, the king is assasinated, whatever) and play continues from there. That should basically deal with the problem many DM's have with players taking their sweet time going through dungeons.
#6 mplindustries May 10, 2010 14:59:03	Is your main issue with tracking resources past the single encounter, or is it with the idea that if you sleep you get your powers back, which invites people to sleep all the time? Neither, actually.  My problem is that the game math is all tied into the idea that four encounters per day make for a challenging day that pushes the players to their limits.  Fewer encounters, and their day was easy.  More and their day was extremely difficult.  I want a given day to be challenging with players pushed to their limits regardless of how many encounters I choose to run during that day. I also dislike the narrative flow of the enforced four encounters per day thing.  I mean, really, dungeons are all compartmentalized enough that you will face four sets of enemies during your trek?  Really?  Even if they are, what about when I don't run dungeons (actually, in 15 years of running various incarnations of D&D, I've used maybe 10 dungeon-style adventures in total)? I want encounters to be determined by the natural flow of the story, but I want them to still all be dangerous and difficult.  Basically, I want to rebalance the math so that days with one encounter can be considered exactly as dangerous and challenging as days with two, four, six, or any other number of encounters. That should basically deal with the problem many DM's have with players taking their sweet time going through dungeons. I guess I could see how that's a problem, but yeah, I don't really use dungeons.  These rules are not to change any player behavior, it's just to change the math behind the game.  Of course, my suggested rules would also solve that problem, if anyone was interested in stealing the idea.