Encounter: Hold the Gate! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Encounter: Hold the Gate!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
artemisbryant
Aug 20, 2010 16:36:45 In my next gaming sessions, my players will be doing an encounter were they must hold a town gate against an army of undead. Actually this will be the first in six encounters that will make up the entire fight. I have the encounter planned out pretty well but I need a little help with some of the statistics.

1.) How much HP should the gate have? Looking at the DMG it looks like 60. 40 x 1.5 for being reinforced. Does this sound accurate for a medium sized town's double wooden door gates? Should I make it 60 for each door? Two zombie hulks are going to be bashing it down along with the help of some blazing skeletons that will be hurling fireballs at it. I want the gate to hold for 4-6 rounds.

2.) Also I will be making it possible for the PC's to reinforce the gate with wagons, logs, etc. So how could I handle that? I thought of making it add HP to the gate for each item depending on the size and strength of the item.

3.) How could I handle break through? As the hulks bash on the doors and create cracks and holes, I want some skeletons and such to be able to get through. I thought of making that possible once the door gets "bloodied". Does that seem reasonable?

4.) Where can I find some stats on war and siege engines such as catapults and ballistas?

5.) If anyone has any other input or advice on how to make this encounter a lot of fun, please feel free to add. Basically it's the PC's, town guard, and a group of warforge mercenaries vs nearly every type of undead you can think of. Since this is the first encounter in this fight sequence, I want to start it off with a bang. I've been watching the battle of Helmsdeep over and over for inspiration, haha. I can't wait.
#2
atomicbanana
Aug 21, 2010 10:56:55 1. depending on the number of attackers I'd playtest the assault on the gates solo as the dm first, see how much damage the zombies can do interrupted (or without the players killing any of them). If you're going for multiple waves, then at the end of round 3 or 4 simulate a rush to reinforce the gate attackers (two more zombie hulks have to move in from the mass of undead skulking outside the gates. Basically I'd think if the gates can stand up to three to four rounds of uninterrupted fireballs and pounding the'll definitely make it to six with players and npcs defending it, but at the same time may be too easy.

if you want it to be harder, lower the hit points so the gates only last 2-3 rounds with uninterrupted attacks.

2 & 3. reinforcements and breaking through may be accomplished concurrently. Perhaps the gate has LESS hp to cause it to break open faster and inspire players to try to blocade it with wagons/carts/etc. However, the haphazard barricade the players construct won't be able to keep out the more agile undead (skeletons, etc) but they will provide a temporary barrier against the zombie hulks and projectile attacks. This would be a good way to keep everyone in the party involved. Player characters who are ranged can attack from the top of the wall, defenders and melee-based strikers can take care of the ones who creep through while also fortifying with the assistance of the leaders.

4. not sure where to get stats, but first ask yourself what they want to do. Should the engines be trying to demolish the walls or are they lobbing things into the city. if so then you'll have to figure out the HP for the walls. Perhaps they are just there to provide a constant reminder of the siege, a repeating, echoing boom that crashed against the city walls.

Another question is WHAT are the lobbing? boulders, flaming missiles? troops? the thing about undead in pop culture is their utter resilience, you could plausibly imply that a group of zombies thrown inside the city walls would have a few survivors that are a bit bloodied up, and that could be maybe an encounter with minions throughout the gate defense/after the gate falls. In addition to catapults and ballistas, think about siege towers, grappling hooks and ladders as an additional way the undead may try to breach the walls. If they are under the sway of a necromancer who is present, they may be able to perform such basic tasks as pushing a tower, climbing ladders, etc. (Think Army of Darkness, with or without the side of corn)

5. The undead dropping from the sky would make this a little interesting/amusing/terrifying if you flavor it differently. Biological warfare vs. Monty Python references. Also, for keeping the players involved in such a large-scale encounter where a lot of friendly NPCs will be taking action, think about possibly making each player a "lieutenant" or "commander" of certain groups of troops. The bow and arrow Ranger could be in charge of the crossbow troops on top of the wall. The warlock/wizard/sorceror could head the magical defense. Fighter/paladin could command the warforged. They wouldn't roll attacks, but could roll "command actions" (find a better name, that one sucks) that are basically a d20 roll + their primary modifier. maybe with like a DC 12-15 depending on character level. If their inspiring words succeed, the troops under them gain a bonus to whatever they attempt that round equal to the characters' primary modifier/ 1/2 lvl + primary modifier.

if you use the ladders and grappling hooks then that's an additional thing the wall troops could attempt to handle (push away the ladders/pull them up, cut the ropes to the grappling hooks.

For siege warfare, try focusing on novels as well as film. The David Eddings series The Elenium and The Tamuli focus occasionally on knights defending fortified cities. The Redemption of Althalus has three separate seiges of differing types going on at the same time. Hell, even the Redwall books have some interesting takes (tunneling, traitors inside the walls trying to open fortified gates--this one seems ready-made for roleplay-heavy PCs)

Yeah, TLDR. Good luck, post how it works out after you run it!
#3
artemisbryant
Aug 21, 2010 13:57:12
Thanks dude, this helped me a lot. I had this encounter in mind before our first gaming session and I kinda fell into the trap of thinking that just because I knew how it was going to play out that I could design it easily.

The battle is going to consist of 6 consecutive encounters with short rests in between and a chance to regroup between the 3rd and 4th. Here is how it goes down: 1.) Gate/wall defense. The town has 3 gates and the PC's are in charge of holding one of them, 2.) Street skirmishes and saving citizens, 3.) Fall back to the lord's keep and hold off attackers while the citizens make for the keep, (regroup in the keep), 4.) Clear underground tunnels that lead to the docks with an encounter vs. Orcus Cultist, 5.) Raise or destroy the drawbridge that leads to the docks, 6.) Final showdown on the docks/beach against a group of unead elites (death knights). This is a medium sized port town and both the docks and the lord's keep are seperate from the town proper by bridges (stone bridge for the keep, draw bridge for the other)

1.) Sounds good, I'll set the map up and playtest it. The reason I want the battle to last for a few good rounds is to add challenges the PC's must do so it's not just combat. One challenge will be when a wraith sneaks into the alarm bell tower and takes out the two guards that are suppose to sound the alarm once the gate is breached and someone must investigate it. Another will be when ghouls and/or specters take out the guards on the catapults or ballistas and someone must take them out. If you can think of more challenges (skill or otherwise) let me know.

2 and 3.) I had the same idea in mind with the strikers/defender holding the line against the ones that break through and the ranged oriented players up on the walls trying to think the ranks. The main thing is there will be a definite turning point when they realize the gate is lost. But I want them to feel like they are accomplishing something by prolonging the breach. I was thinking of having the number of turns they can hold the gate reflect how many citizens are able to get to safety but I need to figure out how to put that in game terms.

4.) I don't think I want a tower but ladders and grappling hooks could be fun. That would add another challenge to disable them. As far as the purpose of the catapults and ballistas, they will be used for both destruction and killing. I've been trying to think of a good way to destroy a tower so I can add some different terrain mid-battle. I guess I'll use a catapult but I considered a creature or Cultist mage doing the damage. A broken tower will add both difficult terrain and a terrain power that the PC's can push over on the undead. I just didn't want a catapult make the wall fall too quickly.

5.) I like your idea of the PC's commanding the troops. As I mentioned there are two other gates and the ranking guards will be in charge of them. I can set up some rules for that based off your suggestions and maybe add other things like shifting or moving extra squares. I've been trying to imagine this in terms of both the enemy and the defenders. The town guard will have never encounter a threat like this so their resolve will be put to the test as this nightmare comes to life. Plus they have all heard the stories from the small fishing village that was destroyed from the survivors that took refuge in this town. The questions I have though is what kind of action should their command actions be? Minor maybe? And also should I have a chance that the town guard will give in to their fear and take penalties to attacks and/or back away from the fight?

Thanks again and keep the advice coming on not only the gate encounter but the others I mentioned.

#4
artemisbryant
Aug 21, 2010 14:55:03 One more thing I wanted to add, the undead army are fallen soldiers from the Nerath empire. They were created by a lich and dracolich but were bound to a lagoon and the caverns connected to it. Now the magic that bound them has weakened and allowed to ventured forth for short periods of time. During these excursions they are being directed by Orcus Cultist and a group of Death Knights leads them in combat. They have retained their military training and insticts and are more capable than your average undead. Basically in life they were soldiers and are still soldiers in undeath. That's why they are able to use siege engines and advanced battle tactics.
#5
atomicbanana
Aug 23, 2010 9:24:10

But I want them to feel like they are accomplishing something by prolonging the breach. I was thinking of having the number of turns they can hold the gate reflect how many citizens are able to get to safety but I need to figure out how to put that in game terms.

I'd say at the end of each combat round/every other combat round a messenger can arrive at the gates your PCs are defending and give a status update on the "evacuation of the non-combat population". This will give a chance for a quick break between combat rounds, and may even offer an opportunity for a short rest if the characters have defeated a "wave" of gate assaulters. Maybe this will also give you a chance to introduce interesting NPCs for the party to interact with at a later time. Think about who has been conscripted to messenger detail. Most of the combat troops have been assigned to the defense of the walls, so they'd probably resort to citizens to give the messages. A clumsy scribe who keeps forgetting the details? An excessively patriotic tavernmaid? Give yourself a chance to have a laugh while your players are enjoying themselves slaughtering undead.

Also, going back to the content of the messages, the longer the players hold the gate the more citizens are evacuated, so the 2) street skirmishes and saving citizens section can be shortened, to compensate for the time the players spent manning the walls.

The important thing is not to have the PCs run out of healing surges halfway through your proposed encounters. I made a really complex and long train encounter for my PCs where they were basically fighting through seven cars of hijackers but by the fourth car they were empty of healing surges and I had a couple really tough encounters waiting for them ahead. On the fly I had to elect that they exchange action points for healing surges and weaken the second-to-last encounter. I guess what I'm saying is don't make everything about combat if you're planning an extended combat period, especially if there's a boss-fight at the end. Think about the damage the PCs will take and adjust accordingly, since they have to survive to check out your next encounter.
#6
Myrhdraak
Aug 23, 2010 15:59:14 Your set up sound very simillar to what I have tried to achieve with the P1: Trollhaunt conversion. I tried to use the Victory Point system from the old Heroes of Battles compendium (3.5 edition). Have a look and see if it is something you could reuse (Page 31-41 of the P1 Conversion Guide).
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

/Myrhdraak
#7
nightwalker450
Aug 24, 2010 9:19:13 Might be able to use some from here. Was an article Mike Mearls did about Skill Challenges regarding just such a scenario.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 artemisbryant Aug 20, 2010 16:36:45	In my next gaming sessions, my players will be doing an encounter were they must hold a town gate against an army of undead. Actually this will be the first in six encounters that will make up the entire fight. I have the encounter planned out pretty well but I need a little help with some of the statistics. 1.) How much HP should the gate have? Looking at the DMG it looks like 60. 40 x 1.5 for being reinforced. Does this sound accurate for a medium sized town's double wooden door gates? Should I make it 60 for each door? Two zombie hulks are going to be bashing it down along with the help of some blazing skeletons that will be hurling fireballs at it. I want the gate to hold for 4-6 rounds. 2.) Also I will be making it possible for the PC's to reinforce the gate with wagons, logs, etc. So how could I handle that? I thought of making it add HP to the gate for each item depending on the size and strength of the item. 3.) How could I handle break through? As the hulks bash on the doors and create cracks and holes, I want some skeletons and such to be able to get through. I thought of making that possible once the door gets "bloodied". Does that seem reasonable? 4.) Where can I find some stats on war and siege engines such as catapults and ballistas? 5.) If anyone has any other input or advice on how to make this encounter a lot of fun, please feel free to add. Basically it's the PC's, town guard, and a group of warforge mercenaries vs nearly every type of undead you can think of. Since this is the first encounter in this fight sequence, I want to start it off with a bang. I've been watching the battle of Helmsdeep over and over for inspiration, haha. I can't wait.
#2 atomicbanana Aug 21, 2010 10:56:55	1. depending on the number of attackers I'd playtest the assault on the gates solo as the dm first, see how much damage the zombies can do interrupted (or without the players killing any of them). If you're going for multiple waves, then at the end of round 3 or 4 simulate a rush to reinforce the gate attackers (two more zombie hulks have to move in from the mass of undead skulking outside the gates. Basically I'd think if the gates can stand up to three to four rounds of uninterrupted fireballs and pounding the'll definitely make it to six with players and npcs defending it, but at the same time may be too easy. if you want it to be harder, lower the hit points so the gates only last 2-3 rounds with uninterrupted attacks. 2 & 3. reinforcements and breaking through may be accomplished concurrently. Perhaps the gate has LESS hp to cause it to break open faster and inspire players to try to blocade it with wagons/carts/etc. However, the haphazard barricade the players construct won't be able to keep out the more agile undead (skeletons, etc) but they will provide a temporary barrier against the zombie hulks and projectile attacks. This would be a good way to keep everyone in the party involved. Player characters who are ranged can attack from the top of the wall, defenders and melee-based strikers can take care of the ones who creep through while also fortifying with the assistance of the leaders. 4. not sure where to get stats, but first ask yourself what they want to do. Should the engines be trying to demolish the walls or are they lobbing things into the city. if so then you'll have to figure out the HP for the walls. Perhaps they are just there to provide a constant reminder of the siege, a repeating, echoing boom that crashed against the city walls. Another question is WHAT are the lobbing? boulders, flaming missiles? troops? the thing about undead in pop culture is their utter resilience, you could plausibly imply that a group of zombies thrown inside the city walls would have a few survivors that are a bit bloodied up, and that could be maybe an encounter with minions throughout the gate defense/after the gate falls. In addition to catapults and ballistas, think about siege towers, grappling hooks and ladders as an additional way the undead may try to breach the walls. If they are under the sway of a necromancer who is present, they may be able to perform such basic tasks as pushing a tower, climbing ladders, etc. (Think Army of Darkness, with or without the side of corn) 5. The undead dropping from the sky would make this a little interesting/amusing/terrifying if you flavor it differently. Biological warfare vs. Monty Python references. Also, for keeping the players involved in such a large-scale encounter where a lot of friendly NPCs will be taking action, think about possibly making each player a "lieutenant" or "commander" of certain groups of troops. The bow and arrow Ranger could be in charge of the crossbow troops on top of the wall. The warlock/wizard/sorceror could head the magical defense. Fighter/paladin could command the warforged. They wouldn't roll attacks, but could roll "command actions" (find a better name, that one sucks) that are basically a d20 roll + their primary modifier. maybe with like a DC 12-15 depending on character level. If their inspiring words succeed, the troops under them gain a bonus to whatever they attempt that round equal to the characters' primary modifier/ 1/2 lvl + primary modifier. if you use the ladders and grappling hooks then that's an additional thing the wall troops could attempt to handle (push away the ladders/pull them up, cut the ropes to the grappling hooks. For siege warfare, try focusing on novels as well as film. The David Eddings series The Elenium and The Tamuli focus occasionally on knights defending fortified cities. The Redemption of Althalus has three separate seiges of differing types going on at the same time. Hell, even the Redwall books have some interesting takes (tunneling, traitors inside the walls trying to open fortified gates--this one seems ready-made for roleplay-heavy PCs) Yeah, TLDR. Good luck, post how it works out after you run it!
#3 artemisbryant Aug 21, 2010 13:57:12	Thanks dude, this helped me a lot. I had this encounter in mind before our first gaming session and I kinda fell into the trap of thinking that just because I knew how it was going to play out that I could design it easily. The battle is going to consist of 6 consecutive encounters with short rests in between and a chance to regroup between the 3rd and 4th. Here is how it goes down: 1.) Gate/wall defense. The town has 3 gates and the PC's are in charge of holding one of them, 2.) Street skirmishes and saving citizens, 3.) Fall back to the lord's keep and hold off attackers while the citizens make for the keep, (regroup in the keep), 4.) Clear underground tunnels that lead to the docks with an encounter vs. Orcus Cultist, 5.) Raise or destroy the drawbridge that leads to the docks, 6.) Final showdown on the docks/beach against a group of unead elites (death knights). This is a medium sized port town and both the docks and the lord's keep are seperate from the town proper by bridges (stone bridge for the keep, draw bridge for the other) 1.) Sounds good, I'll set the map up and playtest it. The reason I want the battle to last for a few good rounds is to add challenges the PC's must do so it's not just combat. One challenge will be when a wraith sneaks into the alarm bell tower and takes out the two guards that are suppose to sound the alarm once the gate is breached and someone must investigate it. Another will be when ghouls and/or specters take out the guards on the catapults or ballistas and someone must take them out. If you can think of more challenges (skill or otherwise) let me know. 2 and 3.) I had the same idea in mind with the strikers/defender holding the line against the ones that break through and the ranged oriented players up on the walls trying to think the ranks. The main thing is there will be a definite turning point when they realize the gate is lost. But I want them to feel like they are accomplishing something by prolonging the breach. I was thinking of having the number of turns they can hold the gate reflect how many citizens are able to get to safety but I need to figure out how to put that in game terms. 4.) I don't think I want a tower but ladders and grappling hooks could be fun. That would add another challenge to disable them. As far as the purpose of the catapults and ballistas, they will be used for both destruction and killing. I've been trying to think of a good way to destroy a tower so I can add some different terrain mid-battle. I guess I'll use a catapult but I considered a creature or Cultist mage doing the damage. A broken tower will add both difficult terrain and a terrain power that the PC's can push over on the undead. I just didn't want a catapult make the wall fall too quickly. 5.) I like your idea of the PC's commanding the troops. As I mentioned there are two other gates and the ranking guards will be in charge of them. I can set up some rules for that based off your suggestions and maybe add other things like shifting or moving extra squares. I've been trying to imagine this in terms of both the enemy and the defenders. The town guard will have never encounter a threat like this so their resolve will be put to the test as this nightmare comes to life. Plus they have all heard the stories from the small fishing village that was destroyed from the survivors that took refuge in this town. The questions I have though is what kind of action should their command actions be? Minor maybe? And also should I have a chance that the town guard will give in to their fear and take penalties to attacks and/or back away from the fight? Thanks again and keep the advice coming on not only the gate encounter but the others I mentioned.
#4 artemisbryant Aug 21, 2010 14:55:03	One more thing I wanted to add, the undead army are fallen soldiers from the Nerath empire. They were created by a lich and dracolich but were bound to a lagoon and the caverns connected to it. Now the magic that bound them has weakened and allowed to ventured forth for short periods of time. During these excursions they are being directed by Orcus Cultist and a group of Death Knights leads them in combat. They have retained their military training and insticts and are more capable than your average undead. Basically in life they were soldiers and are still soldiers in undeath. That's why they are able to use siege engines and advanced battle tactics.
#5 atomicbanana Aug 23, 2010 9:24:10	But I want them to feel like they are accomplishing something by prolonging the breach. I was thinking of having the number of turns they can hold the gate reflect how many citizens are able to get to safety but I need to figure out how to put that in game terms. I'd say at the end of each combat round/every other combat round a messenger can arrive at the gates your PCs are defending and give a status update on the "evacuation of the non-combat population". This will give a chance for a quick break between combat rounds, and may even offer an opportunity for a short rest if the characters have defeated a "wave" of gate assaulters. Maybe this will also give you a chance to introduce interesting NPCs for the party to interact with at a later time. Think about who has been conscripted to messenger detail. Most of the combat troops have been assigned to the defense of the walls, so they'd probably resort to citizens to give the messages. A clumsy scribe who keeps forgetting the details? An excessively patriotic tavernmaid? Give yourself a chance to have a laugh while your players are enjoying themselves slaughtering undead. Also, going back to the content of the messages, the longer the players hold the gate the more citizens are evacuated, so the 2) street skirmishes and saving citizens section can be shortened, to compensate for the time the players spent manning the walls. The important thing is not to have the PCs run out of healing surges halfway through your proposed encounters. I made a really complex and long train encounter for my PCs where they were basically fighting through seven cars of hijackers but by the fourth car they were empty of healing surges and I had a couple really tough encounters waiting for them ahead. On the fly I had to elect that they exchange action points for healing surges and weaken the second-to-last encounter. I guess what I'm saying is don't make everything about combat if you're planning an extended combat period, especially if there's a boss-fight at the end. Think about the damage the PCs will take and adjust accordingly, since they have to survive to check out your next encounter.
#6 Myrhdraak Aug 23, 2010 15:59:14	Your set up sound very simillar to what I have tried to achieve with the P1: Trollhaunt conversion. I tried to use the Victory Point system from the old Heroes of Battles compendium (3.5 edition). Have a look and see if it is something you could reuse (Page 31-41 of the P1 Conversion Guide). community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... /Myrhdraak
#7 nightwalker450 Aug 24, 2010 9:19:13	Might be able to use some from here. Was an article Mike Mearls did about Skill Challenges regarding just such a scenario.