With that in mind, I would like to start a collaborative project with the aim of developing balanced houserules that allow players greater flexibility when making a character. There will be several goals for this project:
1) Giving Essentials builds greater freedom of choice for their powers.
2) Giving Pre-Essentials builds more access to Essentials powers.
3) Developing power swap options for the Essentials builds that lack the proper power type.
4) Developing multiclass feats for the Essentials builds.
Edit added 4/27/11: a recent article included feats to allow, among other things, Weaponmasters, Slayers, and Knights to swap encounter powers (trading out Power Strike for another Fighter encounter power, for example). Use the options below as an alternative to that if you don't feel it is worth a feat.
#1: Giving Essentials builds more choices.
I will focus first on powers, as I feel they are the main limiting factor. If you wanted the features of older builds, you would simply play one of them instead. There aren't ways to mix and match features of older builds, so I will avoid doing so with the Essentials builds. (For example, you can't select the temporary hit point feature from Battlerage Vigor and the ability to weild a one-handed weapon in your off hand from the Tempest build.)
Note on Power Swaps: When taking a higher level power, you must trade out a lower level one if you would normally be required to do so. For example, at level 13 a PHB Fighter gets a new encounter power, but must replace the one they selected at level 1. A character can never have more than the normal amount of powers or their equivalent. This will sometimes make it seem like you are giving up a lot to receive one power of your choice, but this is the trade-off. Set features/powers vs. versatility. I'm not sure if I explained that well, so please ask if you have any questions.
In addition, as always, a lower level power can be taken in place of a higher level one, if desired.
Alternate Option: for some of the Builds, I have given suggestions for trading out features on a one for one basis in order to get power, usually daily powers. It might be simpler to make it an all or nothing choice; for example, the Hunter either gets no daily powers and the features listed below, or all daily powers and none of the features. This is the way I handle other builds, such as the Knight.
Binder
At-Will Powers: As with all Warlocks, Binders receive one set at-will power (Shadow Claws) and a second power based on their pact. Unless you allow other Warlocks to select other powers, there is no reason to give Binders more choice.
Encounter Powers: In place of the Pact encounter powers, Binders may select any Warlock encounter power.
Daily Powers: In place of Summon Warlock's Ally, Binders may instead select a Warlock daily power.
Utility Powers: All are already able to be exchanged for other powers.
Encounter Powers: In place of the Pact encounter powers, Binders may select any Warlock encounter power.
Daily Powers: In place of Summon Warlock's Ally, Binders may instead select a Warlock daily power.
Utility Powers: All are already able to be exchanged for other powers.
#2: Giving Pre-Essentials Builds Access to Essentials Powers
Most of this is done for us already. Any power with a level listed can be freely taken, and this covers nearly all the new powers in the Essentials books.
Assassin: An Assassin can select any of the Executioners guild at-will attacks in place of their normal at-will attacks.
An Assassin can also exchange their encounter powers for Assassin's Strike. Use the rules presented above in #1. Depending on how many powers are exchanged, the Assassin might also gain Death Attack.
Lastly, an Assassin can select Executioner poisons instead of taking a daily power.
Cleric: You might consider allowing a Cleric to replace the Ritual Caster feat with the two powers given to Warpriests- Holy Cleansing and Resurrection.
Druid: You might allow a Druid to replace the Ritual Caster feat with Restore Life.
Fighter: They can select Power Strike as an encounter power. It can be level 1, 7, 17, or 27, functioning as appropriate for the level. You must specify whether you are taking the Knight or Slayer version. For example, if you take the Slayer Power Strike at level 17, it will add 2[W] damage and gain the benefit of Slayer Weapon Specialization. Fighters taking Power Strike can use it after hitting with an at-will attack as well as a basic attack. This is keeping with the intended strength of the power, as a Knight or Slayer can stack the effect with whatever stance they are using. You might also allow Fighters to replace their at-will powers with stances and their daily powers with Knight or Slayer features, as listed in the post above. One concern with allowing stances is that they increase the Fighter's power by effectively allowing them to use at-will powers for opportunity attacks (and the combat challenge attack), but this shouldn't unbalance things greatly.
Paladin: Paladins may select Holy Smite or Dread Smite as an encounter power. The damage only increases if the power is "retrained". For example, a Paladin might take Dread Smite in place of their level 1 encounter power. At level 7, the damage of Dread Smite will only increase if the Paladin replaces the level 1 version. At the DMs discretion, a Paladin may take these powers more than once.
Paladins may also select Righteous Shield or Shroud of Shadow as level 2 utility powers.
Ranger: They can select any of the Hunter at-will attacks. They can also select Disruptive Shot or Power Strike as an encounter power; they can be level 1, 13, 17, and 27, functioning as appropriate for the level. As with Fighters, a Ranger can use Power Strike after hitting with an at-will attack as well as a basic attack. You might also allow a Ranger to take Hunter or Scout features in place of one or more daily powers, as listed in the post above. In addition, you might allow a Ranger to take Dual-Weapon attack instead of getting at-will powers and Hunter's Quarry.
Rogue: They can select Backstab as an encounter power. It can be level 1, 7, 17, and 27, functioning as appropriate for the level. You might also allow Rogues to take Thief's Tricks in place of their at-will powers, and give up daily powers in exchange for Thief features, as listed in the post above. One concern is that a thief who takes the stances but keeps daily powers can easily ensure having combat advantage when he uses the daily attacks, but this shouldn't unbalance things greatly.
Warlock: While the level 9 daily power Summon Warlock's Ally can be taken by any Warlock, currently there are only monsters listed for the Infernal, Fey, Star, and Gloom pacts. I will work on creating summons for the other pacts when I can. Until then, any ideas are welcome. While not listed as a power, at level 25 Hexblades can summon a more powerful creature. I would allow Warlocks have this ability as well, if they had the Summon Warlock's Ally power. Warlocks can select the Hexblade at-will and encounter attacks, although the Pact Weapon they conjur disappears after using the power. You may or may not require the Warlock to have a free hand when using these powers. I don't think I would require it, as the Pack Weapon is simply for flavor. You can picture them conjuring it around their rod or wand. They can select the at-will attacks in place of the one normally granted by their pact. The encounter powers can be taken in place of normal powers at level 1, 13, and 23 (for Piercing Shard, Blazing Doom of the Void, and the Star Pact equivalent) and at level 7, 17, and 27 (for Winter's Retributive Escape, Reflexive Hellstrike, and the Star Pact equivalent), all functioning at the appropriate level. While you might consider only allowing warlocks with the appropriate pact to select these powers, I would allow them for any warlock. I would also like to develop Pact Blade attacks for the other pacts that have not yet been covered for the Hexblade (Dark, Vestige, and Sorcerer-King).
Warlocks can also gain the Pact Blade feature by giving up Prime Shot. The DM might require you to also take the Pact Weapon attacks (at-will and encounter) in place of your normal pact at-will and normal encounter powers.
There are also occasional powers with a level listed, but not one that is usually accociated with a power of that type. For example, at level 4, Hexblades gain the Utility power Lesser Planar Ally. Because it has a level and class accociated with it, I would allow Warlocks to take it in place of a higher level utility power. Other powers are: Create Water (Cleric Utility 1), Storm Surge (Cleric Utility 1), Sun's Glow (Cleric Utility 1), Soothing Light (Cleric Utility 1), Shield Block (Fighter Utility 8), Spirit of the virtuous Charger (Paladin Utility 8), and Reactive Shift (Ranger Utility 5). While they are not listed with a level, I would also allow Cunning Escape (Rogue Utility 5), Holy Cleansing (Cleric Utility 4), Resurrection (Cleric Utility 8), and Restore Life (Druid Utility 8).
#3: Power Swap Options
Sections 1 and 2 above contain most of what you will need for this. If something is missing or you need clarification, please let me know.
What is still needed is options to allow the Essentials martial builds to swap out features for a single daily power, as the system I used above involves trading all features for all the daily powers.
This could also be used as a varient for Martial characters wishing to take only one or two daily powers. It is based on the following premises:
1) The stances (for Knights and Slayers) and tricks (for thieves) gained at first level are equivalent to at-will powers gained by other classes.
2) The encounter attack powers (power strike and backstab) and all accociated modifications (such as Weapon Specialization) are equivalent to the encounter powers gained by other classes.
As a result, all other features gained at higher levels (and some features gained at level 1) are equivalent to the daily powers gained by other classes.
With that in mind, here are my thoughts on power swap options for Knights, Slayers, and Thieves:
Note on Scaling Features: if you trade out a lower level scaling feature, all later versions are set back by one set. For example, if a Knight swaps out Weapon Mastery (+1 to damage) for a daily power, at level 15 when he would normally gain Paragon Weapon Mastery he instead gains Weapon Mastery.
Knight
Level 1: Stance effects only work for attacks made during your turn and Combat Readiness (level 4)
Level 5: Weapon Mastery and Extra Fighter Stance (level 7)
Level 9: Greater Combat Readiness and Shield Block (level 8)
Level 15: Paragon Weapon Mastery, Extra Fighter Stance (level 17) and one of the above
Level 19: Devoted Knight and two of the above
Level 25: Epic Weapon Mastery and three of the above
Level 29: Spirit of War and four of the above
Level 5: Weapon Mastery and Extra Fighter Stance (level 7)
Level 9: Greater Combat Readiness and Shield Block (level 8)
Level 15: Paragon Weapon Mastery, Extra Fighter Stance (level 17) and one of the above
Level 19: Devoted Knight and two of the above
Level 25: Epic Weapon Mastery and three of the above
Level 29: Spirit of War and four of the above
#4: Essentials Multiclass Feats
I'm not good at creative names, so if anyone has ideas I would love to hear them.
Multiclass Binder: prerequisite- Cha 13. Benefit- select a Binder Pact; you gain the at-will attack power of that pact as an encounter power. You gain proficiency with rods and wands, and training in one skill from the Binder skill list.
Multiclass Blackguard: Prerequisite- Str 13. Benefit- you gain Vengeance Strike as an encounter power. If you have combat advantage against the target you deal an additional 2 damage (4 at 11th level, and 6 at 21st level). You gain profiency with Holy Symbols, and training in one skill from the Blackguard list.
Multiclass Cavalier: Prerequisite- Str 13. Benefit- once per encounter you can use Defender Aura; the aura lasts until the end of your next turn. During this time, you can also use Righteous Radiance at-will. You gain proficiency with Holy Symbols, and training in one skill from the Cavalier list.
Multiclass Executioner: Prerequisite- Dex 13. Benefit- once per encounter you can deal an additional 1d8 damage when you hit with a weapon attack using a one-handed weapon, garrote, blowgun, or shortbow. The damage increases to 2d8 at 11th level and 3d8 at 21st level. In addition, you gain proficiency with Ki Focus, and training in Stealth.
Multiclass Hexblade: Prerequisite- Cha 13. Benefit- choose a pact; once per encounter you gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your stat modifier (Dex for Fey, Int for Star, Con for Infernal). You activate this bonus as a free action on your turn, the benefit lasts until the start of your next turn. You gain a bonus to this damage at the same levels as a Hexblade. In addition, you gain the ability to conjur a Pact Blade, but only for the use of Hexblade powers. You gain proficiency in rods and wands, and gain training in one skill from the Hexblade list.
Multiclass Hunter: Prerequisite- Dex 13. Benefit- choose one of the Expert Archer powers; you can use it as an encounter power. You gain training in Nature or Dungeoneering.
Multiclass Knight: Prerequisite- Str 13. Benefit- once per encounter you can use Defender Aura; the aura lasts until the end of your next turn. During this time, you can also use Battle Guardian at-will. You gain training in one skill from the Knight list.
Multiclass Mage: Prerequisite- Int 13. Benefit- choose an at-will power; you can use it as an encounter power. You gain proficiency with orbs, staffs, and wands, and gain training in Arcana.
Multiclass Sentinel: Prerequisite- Wis 13. Benefit- you gain an animal companion, but you must use a standard action to call it back if it is killed. Your companion can use its aura once per encounter; minor action to activate, it lasts until the end of your next turn. You gain proficiency with staffs and totems, and you gain training in Nature.
Multiclass Scout: Prerequisite- Dex 13. Benefit- once per encounter you can use Dual Weapon Attack. You gain training in Dungeoneering or Nature.
Multiclass Slayer: Prerequisite- Str 13. Benefit- once per encounter you gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Dexterity modifier. You activate the bonus as a free action at the start of your turn, and it lasts until the start of your next turn. You gain a bonus to this damage at the same levels as a Slayer. You gain training in one skill from the Slayer list.
Multiclass Thief: Prerequisite- Dex 13. Benefit- once per encounter you can use Sneak Attack when you are attacking with a Thief weapon and have combat advantage. You gain training in Stealth or Thievery.
Multiclass Vampire: Prerequisite- Dex 13, Cha 13. Benefit- once per encounter you gain a +2 to damage for one round. You activate this bonus as a free action at the start of your turn, and it lasts until the start of your next turn. The bonus increases to 4 at level 5, 8 at level 15, and 12 at level 25. You gain proficiency with holy symbols and ki focuses, and training in one skill from the Vampire skill list.
Multiclass Warpriest: Prerequisite- Wis 13. Benefit- choose a domain; once per day you can use Healing Word and gain the benefit of your domain. You gain training in Religion.
For example, the Warpriest can be easily modified. Let them take any power of appropriate level, and not just their domain powers. The riders on their domain powers are no different than riders on any power, like the pact riders on many warlock powers. Domain powers remain mostly optimal due to relevant riders, but any power is fair game.
That said, under any normal situation, no Warpriest is going to be taking many STR powers, unless he chooses to pump STR, which means not pumping WIS or CON (which is what the warpriest build assumes), and thus not taking many if any warpriest powers. Which begs the question: why are you a warpriest?
I'm content to keep changes minimal on the power-side, and keep most of the changes or houserules to what can and how it would swap. That way you're jsut houseruling the "If it has a level, you can swap it" aspect, and not houseruling every single power in the game.
I'll have to dig up my group's copies of the Heroes of... books to make more direct suggestions. I'm not that familiar with paragon and epic Essentials builds.
I would suggest that we limit the scope of the project to encompass a single essentials build initially as the final output (though of course feed any ideas you have on any of the essentials into this post)
Wizard seems the easiest, and could get the most ground work accomplished, but it's also the least problamatic currently. So I'll wait to see what ideas people have before I suggest a focus.
As for why someone would take Strength powers for a Warpriest? What if they really like the Domain features (like create water) and other Warpriest features, but want their character to use Strength and they prefer the Strength Cleric powers?
I feel I must include options for more than just the powers with levels, as they include some of the Builds about which people have the most complaints. For example, the Slayer only receives Power Strike for their encounter powers, which has no level accociated with it. Allowing a player to replace a power with a level that, RAW, can't be replaced (such as the Domain powers or the Knight's level 22 Utility Power) is the obvious first step. The next one is to come up with replacements for the powers without levels, and sometimes for features instead (see the Hunter, above).
@Scottevil: any ideas or feedback you can contribute will be welcome. I was considering limiting the scope to one build, or perhaps having different threads for each, but then I decided to just go whole hog, whatever that means. Perhaps if this thread gets enough attention it will get stickied! Is that the proper usage for that term?
I'll be checking in fairly soon. One of my players has our group's Heroes of... books (I have the one RC and the MV).
I'm honestly more concerned about my setup for Scouts and Hunters. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to use an all-or-nothing type switch for daily powers, but I don't know. This is really why it would be great to get people to test it.
Unfortunately, this forum doesn't seem to get many visitors, and so far you and Scott have been the only people to post in this thread. The cynic in me says that while people will complain until they are blue in the face, they don't actually want solutions unless they are official ones handed down upon high from WotC. And then, if those solutions still aren't exactly what they want, they can resume the complaining. In addition, I worry that many people have just put up a mental wall between Essentials and Pre-Essentials, and think that they should never be combined. I hope I'm wrong, and that it is just a vocal minority. I really am more of an optimist, and it would be great to see a lot of people contributing to this project.
Yeah the houserules area is sparse on visitors it generally seems (Enworld HR section "might" be less so?)
This is really why it would be great to get people to test it.
Unfortunately, this forum doesn't seem to get many visitors, and so far you and Scott have been the only people to post in this thread. The cynic in me says that while people will complain until they are blue in the face, they don't actually want solutions unless they are official ones handed down upon high from WotC. .
But his right here is significant ... I have an optimistic belief WOTC will provide something playtested before I ever end up having to really worry about it ;p we havent purchased any essentials material yet.
I must have misunderstood how novice power and acolyte power work... i thought you can take them as many times as you wanted to? If you cannot as per the raw rules, then honestly I am tempted to say "houserule it for all chatracters". Is there a valid reason why a character sould not be able to take novice power, adept power, and acolyte power feats more than once each?
I did purposely limit choices to keep it in line with the essentials theme of less choice. A very abritrary decision, yes.
I structured it with the choices I did to make sure that someone choosing to multiclass knight ended up with a similar, but limited version of a regular knight. Maybe I went too far in making sure the multiclassed character gets weapon spec, but that seems a reasonable balance for giving up your default paragon path, which is quite strong.
We're definitely getting into nitty gritty stuff here, which is good! I think the version I proposed starts to get at boosting the power of a paragon multiclass... but only for this one case.
I am going to kep thinking about this and will propos a twakd version with your comments in mind. This evening if I get the time...
Later,
Neil
I am allowing multiple power swap feats.
I am also allowing the following as a homebrew paragon path:
Paragon Path Solar Defender:
Preqs: Warpriest, Sun domain. Multiclass knight as per my outline above for the heroic tier:.
Level 11
Stance becomes active at all times
Power strike
Level 12
Weapon spec
Level 16
Defender's aura + battle guardian becomes 2 x encounter (the initial knight multiclass feat gave defender aura + battle guardian as an encounter power lasting until the end of your turn - this would get upgraded here)
Level 20
Solar Flare (as per HoFTL sun domain warpriest prayer)
Seems to me a warlock could trade Prime Shot, their pact at-will, and their first-level encounter power (and the level 13 and 23 swaps) for the Pact Weapon feature. Reasonable?
Hi,
Maybe. But be honest... are you just hungering for Piercing Shard, so you can turn invisible until the start of your next turn?
Later,
Neil
as I have already given Hexblades options for taking old Warlock powers, there is no reason to not simply make a Hexblade if you want that feature.
A Warpriest can't multiclass into Cleric (or vice versa) without a huge houserule. Warpriests ARE clerics, and you can't multiclass into your own class.
I do understand that there could be some consequences to using these options, especially in the hands of a power gamer. That is why I (I think, haven't read the first post in a while) gave the disclaimer that these options are all untested. Use with care, and don't be a jerk to your DM if he tells you that they made your character too powerful.
I'm glad you like my multiclassing options. Have you used any of them, or do you plan to?
I'm sorry you don't like the options for giving Essentials builds more options. Don't feel that you have to use them. Pick and choose which options here you want to use. Other people might like those options, and so I will continue to make them for new builds.
I wasn't aware that monsters had difficulty against Essentials builds. Perhaps some of the earlier monsters that are considered underpowered in general. I suggest following the design mechanic found in MM3 and the Monster Vault. Those monsters have much higher damage values than many older monster.
as I have already given Hexblades options for taking old Warlock powers, there is no reason to not simply make a Hexblade if you want that feature.
Four reasons: Curse and blade on the same character, don't want boon/reward (just weapon), easier to adapt to other pacts, PHB easier to read and reference than HFK.
Bottom line, I'd rather do it my way, mostly because of reason #4. I was just querying if there were any balance considerations I might have overlooked.
as I have already given Hexblades options for taking old Warlock powers, there is no reason to not simply make a Hexblade if you want that feature.
Four reasons: Curse and blade on the same character, don't want boon/reward (just weapon), easier to adapt to other pacts, PHB easier to read and reference than HFK.
Bottom line, I'd rather do it my way, mostly because of reason #4. I was just querying if there were any balance considerations I might have overlooked.
@ChrisTheS,
Good points. I did give a way for old warlock builds to have a temporary pact weapon, but not permanently.
I think getting the Pact Blade feature in exchange for Prime Shot sounds good. I will add this option to the first page. I don't think I would require you to take the Pact Weapon at-will and encounter powers, although it would be in your best interest to do so, at least for the at-will. The main advantage with the Pact Weapon is that it gives you a high damage melee basic attack (with the at-will power), better than Eldritch Strike. So I think giving up Prime Shot is a good trade.
Let me know how it works out.
If a Warpriest can multi-class into Cleric or vice versa then their daily Healing Word would receive all the benefits designed for the original class. Essential character's were supposed to be limited by design. Power-inflation was admitted to with the essentials characters core builds because it was off-set by their lack of options to further power up. Meanwhile non-essentials could scour literally thousands of pages of options to try to match up to these "for first time players" characters. "Essential" was chosen to imply the characters were well-rounded and contained all that was needed to begin with, so please don't reply that these options are for balancing and not simply allowing the making of more powerful character's. There is nothing wrong with wanting more powerful characters. Please continue developing 4.5e (essentials) multi-classing but drop efforts to mix in non-essentials with essentials unless trying to power-inflate essential characters even further. Also, do you have any house rules yet to allow monsters in 4.5e to keep up with your players?
Wonderer88:
For me, it is not so much about boosting power as increasing utility. My gaming setup is quite small (i.e. I DM for my daughter), and I felt the need to have a more vesatile companion for my daughter's character. If I were running a larger game, I am not so sure I'd be as liberal (e.g. may not allow multiple power swap feats) as I was with my own little warpriest which I multiclassed into knight.
Warpriests, by the way, give up quite a bit using the guidelines Arithezoo wrote up. Giving up your powers that scale for ones that do not.... that is a sacrifice. A rather large one in fact. However, I found it balanced enough given the extra defender utility the character now has.
Last thing: my own impression is that a real power-gamer will be better off constructing a well researched, standard 4e character.. as opposed to using an Essentials build. That said, I would agree that Essentials build are quite nice!
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Later,
Neil