Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Rich_The_Mad Feb 09, 2010 14:32:39	Hey all, Just curious on how people would houserule a situation where characters don't take an extended rest for an unusual amount of time. Say, they spend more than 24 hours doing a task (keeping watch for a city, for an example of a low impact activity) that doesn't drain any of their resources.  Naturally, most gamists wouldn't think to take an extended rest at this point, as they haven't lost any HP or dailies. However, at some point natural exhaustion would have some impact, I feel.  Would you impose -2 circumstantial penalties on rolls and skill checks?  Would you turn it into a skill challenge (endurance) to stay conscious?  Would you have it have no impact at all?
#2 kletian999 Feb 09, 2010 14:35:45	You don't need a houserule for it, they already exist under the Endurance skill description and the Extended rest rules.  It's something like 2 days without rest prevents the extended rest benefit and you make endurance checks or lose surges.
#3 MarkAtkinson Feb 09, 2010 14:57:24	You don't need a houserule for it, they already exist under the Endurance skill description and the Extended rest rules.  It's something like 2 days without rest prevents the extended rest benefit and you make endurance checks or lose surges. I just read the Endurance skill in both the PHB and the compendium and it doesn't say anything about exhaustion and I can't remember seeing it anywhere in any 4e book. (but I could be wrong) The house rule I use is a cumulative -2 to skill checks, attack rolls and Will defence per 24 hours between extended rests.
#4 pluisjen Feb 09, 2010 15:27:26	Run it as a Skill Challenge, with failure costing healing surges and enforced sleep when you run out.
#5 kletian999 Feb 09, 2010 18:25:52	You don't need a houserule for it, they already exist under the Endurance skill description and the Extended rest rules.  It's something like 2 days without rest prevents the extended rest benefit and you make endurance checks or lose surges. I just read the Endurance skill in both the PHB and the compendium and it doesn't say anything about exhaustion and I can't remember seeing it anywhere in any 4e book. (but I could be wrong) The house rule I use is a cumulative -2 to skill checks, attack rolls and Will defence per 24 hours between extended rests. Hmm, did you check the Extended Rest description of the PHB?  I might have crossed wires thinking about Starvation rules and applying that to sleeping.
#6 MarkAtkinson Feb 09, 2010 18:59:56	You don't need a houserule for it, they already exist under the Endurance skill description and the Extended rest rules.  It's something like 2 days without rest prevents the extended rest benefit and you make endurance checks or lose surges. I just read the Endurance skill in both the PHB and the compendium and it doesn't say anything about exhaustion and I can't remember seeing it anywhere in any 4e book. (but I could be wrong) The house rule I use is a cumulative -2 to skill checks, attack rolls and Will defence per 24 hours between extended rests. Hmm, did you check the Extended Rest description of the PHB?  I might have crossed wires thinking about Starvation rules and applying that to sleeping. Yep, just did that and, again other than the old not regaining hp, surges and powers it says nothing about penalties for not taking an extended rest.
#7 AbdulAlhazred Feb 09, 2010 19:51:12	That's correct. There is no codified rule about the effects of lack of sleep or rest. There are some examples of skill challenges I've seen here and there with different variations on the theme of Endurance checks, losing surges, and something like a -2 on checks. It seems pretty reasonable overall. I'd base it on what the characters are trying to do. If its just stay up for 3 days then I'd use an Endurance check after a day without sleep to see if they managed to stay awake at whatever critical point comes up and then assess a -2 on mental tasks. Once you get much past a day of sleep loss the effects start to get progressively worse. You could start assessing surge losses after the second day and make the checks progressively harder (could be modeled on the starvation etc rules in the DMG). 4-5 days without sleep is about the limit and by then you'll be lucky not to be hallucinating. Death starts to be a pretty serious possibility after that.
#8 Seeker95 Feb 10, 2010 7:24:01	The house rule I use is a cumulative -2 to skill checks, attack rolls and Will defence per 24 hours between extended rests. I find this to be a reasonable and appropriate house rule. I would extend it to Reflex as well. When really tired, you are less agile both mentally and physically.
#9 makabriel Feb 10, 2010 7:45:05	Just to throw in my 2cp, remember that 4e is supposed to be simplified D&D. Things like healing to full in an extended rest,  the Saving Throw being a simple 50/50 chance are examples.  They most likely don't have rules for exhaustion because it'd bog down the system.
#10 thaliost Feb 10, 2010 8:21:10	There was a ruling in 3rd ed which I cannot exactly recall. It's probably you make a fortitude save or become fatigued after 24 hours, and then exhausted after another 24 hours. As for 4E, I'm for asking the players for a save every 24 hours, for each accumulating failed save, they take a -2 penalty to all ability scores.
#11 MarkAtkinson Feb 10, 2010 8:27:28	Perhaps we should introduce a magic item. Potion of ProPlus.