Expanded Ranged Combat Rules
The rules in the original Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition operate based off the assumption that game play is taking place during sword and sorcery eras. The modern RPG, however, places more emphasis on range combat due to the proliferation of firearms and automatic weapons. Because of this, we have established a number of new rules to further define the ranged actions on might take.
Basic Shot
This is your basic ranged attack with little preparation. Assuming the character has the basic proficiency in the weapon they are trying to use, there is no special benefit or negative consequence for taking a basic shot.
Burst
A burst shot can only be used with a semi-automatic or fully automatic weapon.. It takes the same amount of time as a basic shot, but fires three bullets. Without the use of any special ability or power, the attack does +1[W] damage, but is at a -2 to the attack roll. The burst targets only one target.
Aimed Shot
The aimed shot is different from all other shots. To make an aimed shot, you must spend one standard action lining up your attack. This adds a +2 bonus to the attack roll.
Spray Fire
This is a wild fire technique that covers a blast area. Typically, a spray fire maneuver cannot be used unless in conjunction with a power that possesses the Spray key word. It can only be utilized with automatic weapons. If the MC allows, the Spray Fire technique can be used as a basic attack as Blast 3, but is at -5 to the attack roll and does 1[W] damage.
Burst
A burst shot can only be used with a semi-automatic or fully automatic weapon.. It takes the same amount of time as a basic shot, but fires three bullets. Without the use of any special ability or power, the attack does +1[W] damage, but is at a -2 to the attack roll. The burst targets only one target.
OR you could simply attribute the weapon's [W] value (or even specific power [W] values) to already take into account the fact that you're shooting multiple bullets?
Aimed Shot
The aimed shot is different from all other shots. To make an aimed shot, you must spend one standard action lining up your attack. This adds a +2 bonus to the attack roll.
I don't understand the purpose of this. Do you think current bow specialists don't aim their arrows? This is completely unnecessary.
Spray Fire
This is a wild fire technique that covers a blast area. Typically, a spray fire maneuver cannot be used unless in conjunction with a power that possesses the Spray key word. It can only be utilized with automatic weapons. If the MC allows, the Spray Fire technique can be used as a basic attack as Blast 3, but is at -5 to the attack roll and does 1[W] damage.
Sounds like a pretty specialized technique to me, like Blinding Barrage or Cloud of Steel or Steel Entrapment. If you're going to be making new powers anyways, why not just make new ones that have this close blast built in? You could even create a new burst 3 at-will power.
All in all, I really don't understand the purpose of any of your new proposed house rules for ranged characters, firearms or not. It just all sounds really unnecessary to me. I mean, I run firearms in my games without need for such rules...
I'm trying to consider your points, but I'm having some difficulty in handling some of them, perhaps you can help me.
Aim should possibly changed to Concentrated Aim. I mean, we all take time to aim a ranged weapon, but it's supposed to be designed to handle someone who takes the extra time to line up that perfect shot. While I have specific sniper powers, this is designed more for a quick and dirty version without expending a power, perhaps that's game breaking. But, if everyone has access to it, is it? Plus, I have some abilities that build directly upon taking the extra time to line up the shot.
The concept of firing multiple arrows at a time is extraordinary. I think we can all agree on that, but with modern weapons, semi-auto and automatic, all you have to be able to do is squeeze your finger in rapid succession or squeeze the trigger and hold it down. This is the concept I was going for with the other rules. It's just easier to do now. It doesn't require specific training, only the right equipment.
Taking the specific [W] doesn't exactly work for me, either, because if you consider there are weapons that can be switched between the different variation of single/semi/auto with the flip of a switch, how can you consider that [W] should be the same no matter what mode it is in? It seems like this would be saying one bullet causes as much damage as three. I think you're saying something else, but I can't put my finger on it.
Aim should possibly changed to Concentrated Aim. I mean, we all take time to aim a ranged weapon, but it's supposed to be designed to handle someone who takes the extra time to line up that perfect shot. While I have specific sniper powers, this is designed more for a quick and dirty version without expending a power, perhaps that's game breaking. But, if everyone has access to it, is it? Plus, I have some abilities that build directly upon taking the extra time to line up the shot.
What I don't understand is why you're making this specific to firearms as though bow users or crossbow users cannot take similar actions. It just seems completely nonsensical to me. If you'd like to offer it to all ranged characters, that might work, but it still feels like you're giving away something for nothing and just flat out making ranged characters more powerful when there's no need for them to be.
I suggest you make it a feat. Something like... When you take this feat you gain the ability to spend a move action to grant a +2 bonus to hit on the next ranged attack roll you make this turn.
The concept of firing multiple arrows at a time is extraordinary.
Yes, it is. Luckily, Dungeons and Dragons is a game about very extraordinary characters who can perform such a feat completely at-will starting at level 1. Just take a look at the Ranger's Twin Strike exploit. There's no mechanical balance reason that you would need anything other than that.
If you really feel like you need to make this ability available to everybody, I again suggest a feat (because I dislike house rules that give away free stuff against any balance considerations). How about one that grants you an at-will power, maybe one similar to Twin Strike but you take a -4 penalty to hit with it? I don't know, just something off the top of my head that probably isn't balanced but might get the ball rolling in a more balanced direction... OR, if you're going to be a ranged weapon character, Ranger is going to be the class you're going to want anyways (Rogue can't sneak attack or anything else with firearms), so just make sure you take Twin Strike. You should be taking it anyways. Problem solved.
I think we can all agree on that, but with modern weapons, semi-auto and automatic, all you have to be able to do is squeeze your finger in rapid succession or squeeze the trigger and hold it down. This is the concept I was going for with the other rules. It's just easier to do now. It doesn't require specific training, only the right equipment.
And that's fine in theory, but it doesn't translate over will mechanically unless you're willing to compromise a couple of your ideas about what's actually possible and reasonable for a level 1 character to do.
For the Burst 3, I again suggest a feat that grants a power. Make a ranged attack Dexterity vs AC in a Burst 3 that does [W] damage. Looking at it again, that doesn't sound balanced at all unless maybe it's an encounter power, at least not for the cost of a feat, but it's just an idea to get the ball rolling... Actually, maybe that wouldn't be so unbalanced if you had to swap one of your at-will attack powers for it... OR again such a character would probably be a Ranger, so you could just make a new Ranger at-will power that does that...
Taking the specific [W] doesn't exactly work for me, either, because if you consider there are weapons that can be switched between the different variation of single/semi/auto with the flip of a switch, how can you consider that [W] should be the same no matter what mode it is in? It seems like this would be saying one bullet causes as much damage as three. I think you're saying something else, but I can't put my finger on it.
No, that's exactly what I'm saying. Go ahead and make three bullets do the same damage as one bullet. It's much harder to aim three bullets on burst fire properly than it is to aim a single bullet, and so you can count on maybe one bullet missing and the two that hit not being as well places as a single bullet would have been and thus dealing less damage. Whatever you decide to do with your perceptions of what's going on is fine, but I highly recommend against causing your perception of what "should" be going on to unbalance the game.
To answer some of your specific points:
1. Aiming, as I intended it here is for all ranged combatants, but has undergone some drastic changes a few hours ago.
2. The abilities are made to be for everybody. They will be set as powers like a basic attack, available to anybody, requiring the proper equipment. This was a major concept I collaborated on this morning and got some great guidelines that I need to write up in a presentable format.
3. The question of balance, especially as pointed out with the Spray attck does come into play. I fought with myself over the decision. It does seem at first to be unbalanced. But, if everyone has access to the ability, does it still destroy game balance? Currently, my stance is, not necessarily. Of course, it still needs to be play tested.
4. As for what a level 1 character is supposed to be, I actually think we're in agreement that these characters are supposed to be extraordinary. The concept, however, is this. I have a level 1 character with a bow that can fire off two or three shots. It takes the same amount of time to fire off two or three shots from a semi-automatic weapon. If that were the case, there'd be no advantage to using firearms, which flies in the face of technological advancements in weaponry. But, from what you're saying, perhaps I have to re-envision the idea and come up with a different work-up.
Now, based on your comments here, and based on the meeting I had this morning, changes will be made. And, I thank you for stepping forward and giving me some things to think about.
But, if everyone has access to the ability, does it still destroy game balance?
I think that's a very flawed way of thinking about it. What if I were to say that everybody gets to add a +20 bonus to all their melee damage? Would that be balanced just because everybody has access to it? No, it would not be balanced, because not everybody is going to want to use it. It would be useless for archer rangers and warlocks and wizards and laser clerics. All that would do would be to encourage everybody to select melee based characters.
Similarly, I felt your new ranged rules were not balanced because even though they do apply to everybody, not everybody can get the same use out of it. The Ranger and possible Rogue will get a great power boost as concepts while the Fighter and Paladin and melee Cleric and Warlord will have next to zero use for it. All these rules do is encourage people to want to play the classes that got powered up by it, Rangers and Rogues (if you're letting firearms be used for Rogue powers, etc.).
I have a level 1 character with a bow that can fire off two or three shots. It takes the same amount of time to fire off two or three shots from a semi-automatic weapon. If that were the case, there'd be no advantage to using firearms, which flies in the face of technological advancements in weaponry.
That's an understandable thematic problem, but thematically, Wizards should also be completely superior to Fighters in every way shape and form. The problem is that this gets in the way of game balance to a very significant degree. Some would even argue that as being part of the reason 3.5 had to die eventually.
Fortunately, there is a simple solution to this thematic problem if you really want your firearms to be superior to your bows and crossbows. Simply re-flavor bows and crossbows as firearms and suggest that bows and crossbows have different, much weaker stats such that they won't make any appearances in your campaign. In other words, give your game's firearms the exact same mechanics that bows and crossbows have now and then eliminate bows and crossbows from the in-game. The thematic problem is now effectively gone.
And, I thank you for stepping forward and giving me some things to think about.
Not a problem, and I commend you for taking my criticisms so well.
I like your concept on using the bows stats for firearms and then giving bows inferior stats in the game. This, of course, relates back to the second problem I mentioned above.
And, finally, what am I going to do? Ask for help and then run home and cry when someone makes some valid criticisms? Thanks again.
And, finally, what am I going to do? Ask for help and then run home and cry when someone makes some valid criticisms? Thanks again.
You'd be surprised how some people around here behave when their ideas come under the criticism that they asked for. :P
You'd be surprised how some people around here behave when their ideas come under the criticism that they asked for. :P
Nah, not at all...but, that's not me.:D
I think, after reviewing the ideas here and from a helper that I may have figured out how to handle it. Tell me if this works for the burst and spray. They can be utilized as either at-will or encounter powers gained as part of a feat.
Aimed still has some re-working (and renaming) to be done, but it could work as a feat as well.
While I don't have the actual data drawn up, I'm interested if you think that would work.
Aim: spend two swift (minor) actions to ignore cover.
Autofire: Takes 10 shots, but you make an area attack in a 2x2 area.
That might get you what you're looking for.