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Extended rests and random dungeons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
glaive_21842
Jun 15, 2008 5:49:47 In my group of friends, everyone wants a shot at D&D, so we have a habit about holding single-sessions at social events. I wanna start doing random dungeons, but I'm not sure about a few things...namely extended rests.

In the random dungeon rules in the DMG, i found nothing about when the party is allowed to take an extended rest. It would seem pretty silly to just let the party rest in a cleared room in the middle of a dungeon, not to mention it would be kinda overpowering if they were allowed to do so after every fight. Nevertheless, in a single-session random dungeon, it's not as if they've really got anywhere else to go, and simply letting them "rest outside" would create the issue of them just "going outside" after most fights.

To make matters worse, I haven't actually started a serious 4e campaign yet, so I'm not sure how many fights a party can handle before needing to rest. All I have for experience is the 4e demo, which thoroughly wore out the party with 3 encounters of significant difficulty.

To this end, I've thought of one house rule that needs critiquing...i call it the:

Infinite Delve
-- All players are considered to have infinite healing surges
-- Players will regain one daily power with each milestone (or maybe every 2)

This rule will allow the party to keep on going till they reach their objective or till they TPK. One of my main worries, however, is that it that it will devalue con.

If this rule seems like it would cause a lot more complications than good, feel free to shoot it down. But if you do, please help me by giving me advice about dealing with extended rests. Maybe the party is allowed to take an extended rest only after so many fights, or maybe i can throw out some better bonuses for reaching milestones so that its beneficial to keep fighting as much as possible.
#2
rambaldi
Jun 15, 2008 6:19:31 If you are just wanting to show off the combat mechanics you could shift the situation slightly, the group have to defend a location rather than attack, it gives you a reason to constantly attack them with out them sleeping after every fight.

I haven't run a full campaign yet myself (or read all the rules) but from what i have read on these forums your group should face about 5 encounters a day so perhaps reset daily powers at that point, and give them all their hp back then. perhaps set it up as a high powered town healer makes his way to the various defense points healing every1 back up when he is there before moving onto the next group.

I don't see the surge limit per day stopping people from dieing, i think it is the limit of 1 second wind per fight so infinite surges should be fine, but as i have said above i don't have extensive experiance with the rules yet
#3
half_dragon_infernal
Jun 15, 2008 6:26:11 How about regain 1-quarter surges after each milestone? And regaining half after every 5 battles? That should help you with this.
#4
therubberduck
Jun 15, 2008 7:58:52 Maybe instead, you could just designate some rooms "safe". It could be every fourth room. Or maybe you roll a dice for every room, say a 6 on a d6 designates it safe.

Why are rooms safe? It could be arbitrary, just a game mechanism to let the players rest. Or maybe "safe" rooms has a connecting room, empty, 3 x 3 squares big, with only a single entrance in which is a solid door. So it's really the connecting room that is safe. Maybe drop rolling for safe rooms, and simply decide that all rooms with only a single entrance are safe. To avoid having people backtrack all the time, you could have wandering monsters, as long as there are corridors/doors behind them that they haven't cleared.

Maybe the safe rooms could be incorporated into the encounter deck. Some of the cards might have empty safe rooms, some might have lairs with harder than average encounters, but which are safe after the inhabitants are cleared out.
#5
dyser
Jun 15, 2008 12:21:48 You could always create a skill challenge for securing a room sufficiently that it will be safe to rest there for six hours. Just create a generic set of rules for a dungeon campsite challenge and let them tell you they want to attempt it whenever they want to rest.

To include everyone, perhaps use Dungeoneering, Perception, Thievery, Arcana, and Religion as primary skills.

Dungeoneering: Knowledge of dungeons and surviving in them. Should be obvious.
Perception: Spot items that help to secure the location, spot signs that the area is traveled through by monsters (or not), identify whether their campsite has any blind spots where someone could ambush them, and so on. Also, with stealth, scout around and see what's in the neighborhood.
Thievery: Set up minor traps that will wake up the party if a monster comes around, jamming locks or doors, etc.
Arcana and Religion: Just to include clerics, wizards and warlocks in the challenge with their stronger skills... assume they can perform some light non-ritual that will help ward off monsters.

Success: They will be able to rest for six hours uninterrupted.
Failure: They will be interrupted if they try to rest here for the night, or are interrupted during their preparations and investigations.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 glaive_21842 Jun 15, 2008 5:49:47	In my group of friends, everyone wants a shot at D&D, so we have a habit about holding single-sessions at social events. I wanna start doing random dungeons, but I'm not sure about a few things...namely extended rests. In the random dungeon rules in the DMG, i found nothing about when the party is allowed to take an extended rest. It would seem pretty silly to just let the party rest in a cleared room in the middle of a dungeon, not to mention it would be kinda overpowering if they were allowed to do so after every fight. Nevertheless, in a single-session random dungeon, it's not as if they've really got anywhere else to go, and simply letting them "rest outside" would create the issue of them just "going outside" after most fights. To make matters worse, I haven't actually started a serious 4e campaign yet, so I'm not sure how many fights a party can handle before needing to rest. All I have for experience is the 4e demo, which thoroughly wore out the party with 3 encounters of significant difficulty. To this end, I've thought of one house rule that needs critiquing...i call it the: Infinite Delve -- All players are considered to have infinite healing surges -- Players will regain one daily power with each milestone (or maybe every 2) This rule will allow the party to keep on going till they reach their objective or till they TPK. One of my main worries, however, is that it that it will devalue con. If this rule seems like it would cause a lot more complications than good, feel free to shoot it down. But if you do, please help me by giving me advice about dealing with extended rests. Maybe the party is allowed to take an extended rest only after so many fights, or maybe i can throw out some better bonuses for reaching milestones so that its beneficial to keep fighting as much as possible.
#2 rambaldi Jun 15, 2008 6:19:31	If you are just wanting to show off the combat mechanics you could shift the situation slightly, the group have to defend a location rather than attack, it gives you a reason to constantly attack them with out them sleeping after every fight. I haven't run a full campaign yet myself (or read all the rules) but from what i have read on these forums your group should face about 5 encounters a day so perhaps reset daily powers at that point, and give them all their hp back then. perhaps set it up as a high powered town healer makes his way to the various defense points healing every1 back up when he is there before moving onto the next group. I don't see the surge limit per day stopping people from dieing, i think it is the limit of 1 second wind per fight so infinite surges should be fine, but as i have said above i don't have extensive experiance with the rules yet
#3 half_dragon_infernal Jun 15, 2008 6:26:11	How about regain 1-quarter surges after each milestone? And regaining half after every 5 battles? That should help you with this.
#4 therubberduck Jun 15, 2008 7:58:52	Maybe instead, you could just designate some rooms "safe". It could be every fourth room. Or maybe you roll a dice for every room, say a 6 on a d6 designates it safe. Why are rooms safe? It could be arbitrary, just a game mechanism to let the players rest. Or maybe "safe" rooms has a connecting room, empty, 3 x 3 squares big, with only a single entrance in which is a solid door. So it's really the connecting room that is safe. Maybe drop rolling for safe rooms, and simply decide that all rooms with only a single entrance are safe. To avoid having people backtrack all the time, you could have wandering monsters, as long as there are corridors/doors behind them that they haven't cleared. Maybe the safe rooms could be incorporated into the encounter deck. Some of the cards might have empty safe rooms, some might have lairs with harder than average encounters, but which are safe after the inhabitants are cleared out.
#5 dyser Jun 15, 2008 12:21:48	You could always create a skill challenge for securing a room sufficiently that it will be safe to rest there for six hours. Just create a generic set of rules for a dungeon campsite challenge and let them tell you they want to attempt it whenever they want to rest. To include everyone, perhaps use Dungeoneering, Perception, Thievery, Arcana, and Religion as primary skills. Dungeoneering: Knowledge of dungeons and surviving in them. Should be obvious. Perception: Spot items that help to secure the location, spot signs that the area is traveled through by monsters (or not), identify whether their campsite has any blind spots where someone could ambush them, and so on. Also, with stealth, scout around and see what's in the neighborhood. Thievery: Set up minor traps that will wake up the party if a monster comes around, jamming locks or doors, etc. Arcana and Religion: Just to include clerics, wizards and warlocks in the challenge with their stronger skills... assume they can perform some light non-ritual that will help ward off monsters. Success: They will be able to rest for six hours uninterrupted. Failure: They will be interrupted if they try to rest here for the night, or are interrupted during their preparations and investigations.