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| #1jueqelSep 05, 2008 0:11:38 | I'm not sure if WotC is planning on bringing these back. I've read some great examples for having familiars, and this is my attempt at putting familiars back into D&D. I'm trying to add them without altering the dynamics of party / encounter balance. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Feat Familiar: Whether through a ritual, curse, pact, or fate, the bonding of a Familiar (familiar, homunculus, or companion) to you creates an intimate connection with the creature that then becomes an extension of you. Your Familiar shares a pseudo-psychic connection with you, knows your intentions, and is in your control. You share your hit points and defense scores, as well as actions during combat. In addition, your Familiar grants you an expanded perspective, allowing you to have a keener sense of your environment. You gain a +2 Perception Bonus when you and your Familiar are within 10 squares of each other. Because your hit points are shared by your Familiar, there is no difference between your hit points and that of your Familiar. You are treated as one being for tracking your hit points. When your Familiar gets hurt, the damage affects your hit points. This also means that when damage from any attack that affects you and your Familiar, such as area attacks, the damage deals once to your hit points, and does not double the damage because you both were hit. Healing a Familiar heals you. Healing damage that affects you and your Familiar at the same time only counts as if one of you were healed. Your Familiar has the same Armor Class, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will scores as you. In area attacks, you are attacked separately, what happens to one of you happens to both of you. During combat you share your actions with your Familiar. You divide your actions between you and your Familiar. On your turn, you may take any actions you are normally allowed, but any actions taken by your Familiar uses your action allotment. You or your Familiar may take an opportunity action against the same opponent, but not at the same time. Your Familiar may make athletics, acrobatics, endurance, thievery, and stealth skill checks using your base skill check. Hands or prehensile appendages are still required to perform skills that normally require them (i.e., pick pocket). Feat. Familiar Point of View. Prerequisite: Familiar Feat. As a minor action, you change your perspective and perceive though the senses of your Familiar. You have line of sight to anything your Familiar would normally have line of sight. Feat. Familiar At-Will Power Use. Prerequisite: Familiar Feat. Your Familiar may make use of your at-will powers. *** I'm building on what I've learned from other forums and posts and feedback. I thought about making Familiars have their own hit points, but that seems more like a punishment for taking a familiar. One area spell that knocks you cold and kills your familiar was never really fun. I've lost too many familiars that way. I modeled my Familiar feat off the figurine items and the mounted combat feat. Since feats are supposed to be small in benefits, I tried to steer away from having a feat that creates an entirely separate character. The figurines showed how to do this mechanically. I thought a ritual would be the easiest way to explain the use of this feat. Anyone could get one of these Familiars, as a bonding ritual could be performed for fighters, warlords, and rogues to get their own Familiar. I think that a case can be made for having a divine guide (a clockwork owl?) as a Familiar for clerics and paladins. Warlocks might be "assigned" a companion through their pact. |
| #2arthurhoneyhillSep 05, 2008 0:31:39 | Well, this sounds like it's off to a good start, but there area few things I don't like. Why would it have to take the same actions as you? Do you share a consiousness? Is that why if it attacks, you can't? It sounds like the only good thing about it is sending it to the cleric so you can get healed at a distance. If a defender class got this, the cleric could just carry it around and heal him all the time. Also, why can it not flank? This really sounds to me as if it's like an extension of your body that you have to conciously control. My suggewstion is to give it a minor, and one move or standard action per turn; give it a special ability depending on what it is and what class is taking it; and take a look at 3.5's familiar and animal companion rules. Like, if I was a ranger and wanted to take like a wolf for this, I don't really get much out of it since he can't flank, and if he attacks, I cannot. I really think you should put some more thought into how the actions play out. I really like the two feats that you have, especially the at-will one. That is really cool because if a wizard took a familiar, the familiar could boost the range of his at-will spells without endangering the wizard. If you tweaked the actions, this might also help martials possibely get an extra attack, depending on how you work it. All in all, pretty good work, apart from the action thing. I like your idea for the different kind of cohort for different classes: like a cat or bat for wizards, a little demon for warlocks, and a clockwork owl! That's awesome. Good work! |
| #3jueqelSep 05, 2008 1:27:30 | Thanks so much for the feedback. Very good points.Why would it have to take the same actions as you? Do you share a consiousness? Is that why if it attacks, you can't? It sounds like the only good thing about it is sending it to the cleric so you can get healed at a distance. If a defender class got this, the cleric could just carry it around and heal him all the time. That's exactly what I was shooting for, as I was aiming for an extension of your own body. That's why when it attacks and you can't. Since it's a feat, it only gives you a +2 Perception and some little tricks. However, it opens up a whole lot of potential feats that you and your cohort can take advantage of. Like a feat that can grant you and your cohort the ability to flank at the same time once per encounter. Some cool shifting affects might be had with a Warlord cohort. Having the cleric carry around the defender's cohort to keep a defender healthy sounds funny, but I guess if it floats their boat. Sounds like too much fun for the cleric trying to carry a combat ready animal. Ouch! (I stayed away from the way 3.x did familiars. I had too many die that way.) Maybe I should add something about when your cohort is held, so are you. I imagine the cohort being very reactive and mirroring a sort of emotive response to your actions. Like when you swing, your cohort's claws extend or beak snaps shut. The bond is quite strong. |
| #4SaricSep 05, 2008 6:36:45 | You probably should rename the thread/feat. Cohorts were actual people or creatures who followed you because you were an inspiring leader or drawn to your legacy of being a hero. Cohorts/henchmen were totally different in context from familiars or animal companions which is what you are actually presenting here. As a result, some people might come into the thread like myself expecting one thing and getting another. With that said, I'll still give you some feedback. Your cohort has the same Armor Class, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will scores as you. You make saves separately when attacked with an area effect, what happens to one of you happens to both of you. There is no such thing as saves vs area effects anymore. Unless you are implying if an area effect imposes a condition like say for example, an enemy wizard casts sleep and initially slows you and your familiar (save ends) both of you are slowed and have to each make separate saves? During combat you share your actions with your cohort. You divide your actions between you and your cohort. On your turn, you may take any actions you are normally allowed, but any actions taken by your cohort uses your action allotment. This is an interesting move for familars and makes good balance and I like it. However, it makes some of your things below very redundant. Your cohort may make a standard action, and that action uses up your standard action for your turn. Everything above is extremely redundant considering you put a nice paragraph that already explained that you and your familiar shared actions. And to be quite honest, a familiar shouldn't have an action point at all. The pc is the hero, and unless the bonded familiar was some creature who was capable of getting action points before, then they really don't have a plausible reason to have one now. And its also very self-explanatory that since the familiar shares your actions, if you spend an action point, you could use your extra actions for your familiar, maybe with some restrictions for paragon paths/feats. Say you're human for example and you have the action surge feat. Does the familiar also get this bonus? I personally probably wouldn't give it. You or your cohort may flank an opponent, but not at the same time. If a wizard holding a wand in one hand and a wineskin in the other can still flank with his elbow, head or foot, why on earth can't a familiar? This makes no sense. Feat. This is great for a wizard/sorcerer familiar. Druids and rangers did not have this feature with their animal companions in previous editions, so it might be debatable. Either way, its decent. Cohort At-Will Power Use. You do realize that they already meet the criteria. An animal of sorts could use an unarmed attack such a claw/bite. And they don't even need an implement to use a power. See below. (Quoted from the phb p56) Implement: Many arcane spells are more effective when used in conjunction with an implement—a wiz- ard’s staff, orb, or wand, or a warlock’s rod or wand. Many divine prayers use holy symbols as implements. To grant its benefit to a divine character, a holy symbol must represent the character’s patron deity or one of a group of deities the character serves. It’s not necessary to have an implement in order to use a power that has the implement keyword. Weapon: Many martial powers, as well as several divine powers, can be used only if you’re wielding a weapon. (You can use an unarmed attack as your weapon.) |
| #5jueqelSep 05, 2008 9:08:54 | Thanks for the feedback.Unless you are implying if an area effect imposes a condition like say for example, an enemy wizard casts sleep and initially slows you and your familiar (save ends) both of you are slowed and have to each make separate saves? Yes, but since you put it that way. It makes sense to leave the saving to the character. This is an interesting move for familars and makes good balance and I like it. However, it makes some of your things below very redundant. Yes, and I was worried about that. However, some of the feedback I got from others indicated they didn't get the connection. So, I tried to spell it out. If a wizard holding a wand in one hand and a wineskin in the other can still flank with his elbow, head or foot, why on earth can't a familiar? This makes no sense. Ok. That makes sense. I was trying to avoid this feat granting dual combat advantage. Would allowing flanking make the feat a little too powerful? You do realize that they already meet the criteria. An animal of sorts could use an unarmed attack such a claw/bite. And they don't even need an implement to use a power. See below. Yes, but I was trying to cover the bases if someone might choose a creature without a natural attack. However, I see your point. Again, thank you for the excellent feedback. |
| #6lizardmageSep 08, 2008 17:34:10 | I've got to say I really do like feat, my only compliant was mentioned prior in that it shares your actions with you. It may have more to do with the fact that my game is a only 3pcs/1npc party, but giving the "Familiar" the previously stated "One Move/One Minor/One Standerd" action does not seem overpowered. To me, if the "Familiar" had that build on it then it would workout well as the needed companin, i.e. Bodyguard for the Mage, Partner for the Ranger etc. Really, though this is a great feat (also the follow ups) and you did quite the job on it. Do you think though that a couple of prereqs on it might be more engaging? Perhaps requiring a WIS or CHR of 13 or so if not a Arcane/Divine/Primal user? If only to better explain the patience/will to bond to the "Familiar"? *Edit* As to the "Keeping the familiar with the cleric to be healed from a distance" what if healing effects where in a radius. I know this would then get annoying tracking HP at seperate lvls, but I think it would keep the owner on their toes about how they use the familiar as opposed to leaving in all the way in the back so they can go toe to toe with anything without worries of not being in range of healing. It seems to just take away the tension of death in a great encounter you know? |
| #7rowlSep 09, 2008 3:31:51 | A thought about flanking... Make the initial feat allow only a creature small or tiny in size (does 4e still use tiny?), which doesn't allow for flanking. A side note here is that I didn't notice anything limiting the type of creature that can be used as a familiar...? A secondary feat could allow an expansion of both the type of creature (fey, shadow, magical, etc) and/or size to Medium (possibly at Paragon). An additional feat can increase it to Large (again with a possible tier increase). This doesn't increase the size of the current familiar, only the option to call a new one at the increased size and forgoing the old one. A medium or large familiar could flank, where a small or tiny one couldn't. I see where you are going with the whole any type of character can have a familiar, but I'm not sure that I personally like it. I think the flavor of an animal companion is something wholly different than a familiar. This goes back to the flanking issue. You wouldn't want a familiar to flank, because traditionally, they are small or tiny creatures not made (generally) for combat. An animal companion would be a different thing entirely, made for supporting the Ranger or Druid (predominantly) in his fighting style. That being said, I think the secondary feat at Paragon level allowing for a medium sized creature which can flank could possibly branch the gap between the two concepts quite nicely. It gives the animal companion more options through the character for communication and attacks, but it also grants the familiar a greater combat role. Also, I agree that the familiar itself should have at least a minor action on it's own. With that, the secondary/Paragon feat might also change that to a Move action, and the tertiary/Epic feat might change that Move action to a Standard action. Just some thoughts. |
| #8skeletor666Sep 09, 2008 15:39:30 | Jeuqel! I love the familiar feats you put together. Thank you so much!!! |
| #9otogi_2Sep 10, 2008 19:12:33 | Bada-boom |
| #10elite_dmSep 13, 2008 5:31:49 | I think "Find Familiar" would make a good ritual. There would be a component cost (say 100gp for incense and herbs), and perhaps a limit of casting it once a year, to encourage not endangering one's familiar. Players could then roll a d20 to see what familiar was summoned: 1-4 black cat 5-6 crow 7-8 hawk 9-10 owl 11-12 toad 13-14 weasel 15 special (imp, quasit, pseudo-dragon, or brownie) 16-20 nothing available at this time (See page 66 of AD&D Player's Handbook by Gygax) |
| #11skeletor666Sep 13, 2008 13:47:11 | Do you think it's too much to give all your players a familiar (via the feat) at 1st through 4th level? |
| #12syrsuroSep 14, 2008 5:11:16 | Quote: Actually, this DOES make sense and is as it should be, imho. To flank, you have to be able to take opportunity attacks (technically "If you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from taking opportunity actions, you don’t flank.") Since only one of the two, but not both, can take an opportunity attack it likewise makes sense that only one of the two, but not both, can flank. Granted the rules aren't 100% explicit on this point but that's because we are dealing with something that is already outside of the rules. But based on the above, I think that the flanking rule should stand. Carl |