Familiars in 4e (Brainstorm) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Familiars in 4e (Brainstorm)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
pyromancer999
Jan 04, 2009 10:00:15 When 4e first came out, we all missed the beast companion and the familiar. Now, with the release of Martial Power, we can have the beast companion at the expense of the two-weapon or archery mastery. So, spurred on by the example in Martial power, here's what I have for a 4e familiar (for Wizards) so far:

- Instead of the Implement Mastery class feature, you may gain a familiar

- you use your actions to command familiars
What I need:

- some animal stats for some familiars

- some powers and feats that use familiars

So, if anyone could help with that, that'd be great.
#2
curtis_ownby
Jan 04, 2009 14:34:53 Here is my ideal of how to do familiars. As for animal stats just use the one from 3.5. All it takes to change saves to defence is to add a base 10. Or you could do like I did and get the stats from items that summon animals like the Bags of Tricks.

Familiar

Level:4__________Component Cost:Special
Category:Binding__Market Price:175
Time:24 Hours____Key Skill: Arcana
Duration: Permanent

This ritual lets you gain a familiar that is a natural beast and it must be size small or smaller. The cost is equal to a Wondrous Item of the familiar’s level. The familiar has hit points equal to two times the value of your healing surge. You control your familiar in the same way as a Figurine of Wondrous Power. For the stats of animals use the stats from the bag of tricks including level. You cannot have more than one familiar at a time. If your familiar is tiny or smaller it can be in your space without problems. If you’re familiar dies you loss two healing surges, if you do not have two healing surges you loss hit points equal to two healing surges. You cannot get a new familiar for at least one month after your familiar dies, the reason for this is that it takes that long for your magic to become unaligned with your familiar. The same holds true for dismissing a familiar. The only thing about your familiar that increase with your level is the familiar’s hit points sense that is tied to your healing surge value.

Arcana Check Result________Level of Familiar

4 of lower____________________1-2
5-9__________________________3-4
10-14________________________5-6
15-19________________________7-8
20-24________________________9-10
25-29________________________11-12
30-34________________________13-14
35-39________________________15-16
40-44________________________17-18
45-49________________________19-20
50 or above___________________21-22
#3
pyromancer999
Jan 04, 2009 14:40:43 Interesting. Anyone else willing to help?
#4
Einlanzer
Jan 04, 2009 18:01:59 I'd really like to see familiars and other companions make more of a comeback, but i'm so certain those rules are coming that it makes me lazy about creating them myself. I'll help critique though.
#5
wyld_mutation
Jan 04, 2009 19:41:51 Steal the Beastmaster's companion mechanics for the stats. It would make sense. Alter attacks by size and level.

Familiars should be classed as small so as to have the same pro's and con's as a Halfling in the party.
#6
curtis_ownby
Jan 04, 2009 20:26:05 I put a size limit in.

How about using the rules for Figerine of Wondrous Power as the rules for a familiar. I plan to use the dog as my familiar when I play if the DM will not let me have a familiar.
#7
rikiji
Jan 05, 2009 13:48:08 I've thought about using a variant of the weapon mastery rules for familiars - that opens the ability up to more classes at the cost of a few feats and the option to multiclass. Familiars are generally noncombatants so I'm not sure they need their own combat stats - it seems easier to play them as an extension of their master.
#8
anubis_reynard
Jan 06, 2009 15:03:05 I'd actually rather see Familiars as a new Implement- you can cast spells through them, and they don't have to be in your square, but they themselves are relatively useless in combat. Also, the wizard (who automatically gets Ritual caster anyway) would get the ability to enchant his familiar with an enhancement bonus.
#9
wyld_mutation
Jan 06, 2009 15:54:00 "Familiar Implement" Feat?

That would be interesting... Hmmm...

I should brainstorm for that...
#10
anubis_reynard
Jan 06, 2009 16:57:08
"Familiar Implement" Feat?

That would be interesting... Hmmm...

I should brainstorm for that...

Class feature, actually. Instead of Wand of Accuracy or Staff of Defence, you have a familiar, who can be "you" for the purpose of spells out to a range of (x).

X probably being 5 squares or less. An improved Arcane Reach, because Push effects push from you, not the origin of the effect.
#11
wyld_mutation
Jan 06, 2009 17:25:39 Well... I was thinking of making it a feat with the Arcane Power SOurce requirement, and allowing you to use a Familiar Implement. And then giving them "special" powers of some sort...
#12
Rustmonster
Jan 06, 2009 19:28:52
Familiars should be classed as small so as to have the same pro's and con's as a Halfling in the party.

The only penalty a Halfling takes for being small is not being able to use 2 handed weapons. Familiars don't use a weapon.
#13
harmesis
Jan 06, 2009 19:40:08 Check out the new Quintessential Wizard. Its has familiar rules using rituals to summon and bind them.
#14
mouthymerc
Jan 06, 2009 22:02:32
Check out the new Quintessential Wizard. Its has familiar rules using rituals to summon and bind them.

Hmm, interesting. I had this idea.
#15
pauln6
Jan 07, 2009 9:16:56 I think familiars should be treated as implements and would need some kind of implement specialisation wizard class feature plus [Familiar] magical items akin to [Mount] items.

I'm not overly familiar (no pun intended) with rules for temporary hit points but couldn't familars be statted using basic tiny animal stats as minions and then given temporary hit points/boosts to defences based on their master's level?
#16
batshido
Jan 07, 2009 9:47:08 I have a player with a +3 Toad of Frost.

So far we haven't had any issues simply using them as implements. It's not the solution the OP seems to be looking for, but it's a quick and easy way to get them into your games if that's the goal.
#17
rikiji
Jan 07, 2009 12:05:54 I like the idea of using them as implements. Using a feat-based entry like wyld_mutation's suggesting lets them plug into the existing system and gives options for rounding them out nicely (sort of an arcane variation on superior weapons). In keeping with previous edition lore, I'd probably want the entry feat to give access to a level 1 ritual that allows you to summon and bind them.
#18
wyld_mutation
Jan 07, 2009 19:07:23
The only penalty a Halfling takes for being small is not being able to use 2 handed weapons. Familiars don't use a weapon.

Actually I was referring to encounter design. In 3e Familiars were tiny... And so with the write choices could be pretty disruptive. Of course their masters were even more disruptive.

Particularly... If your Warlock has a familiar and is locked in a dungeon where he can't use his power... He can send a Tiny familiar out of a cell to steal the keys or some such thing.

Or does nobody else think of SIZE when they work out an encounter?
#19
pyromancer999
Jan 08, 2009 16:08:18 This all sounds interesting, but hwo would a familiar work as an implement? would it just be another origin point for the caster?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pyromancer999 Jan 04, 2009 10:00:15	When 4e first came out, we all missed the beast companion and the familiar. Now, with the release of Martial Power, we can have the beast companion at the expense of the two-weapon or archery mastery. So, spurred on by the example in Martial power, here's what I have for a 4e familiar (for Wizards) so far: - Instead of the Implement Mastery class feature, you may gain a familiar - you use your actions to command familiars What I need: - some animal stats for some familiars - some powers and feats that use familiars So, if anyone could help with that, that'd be great.
#2 curtis_ownby Jan 04, 2009 14:34:53	Here is my ideal of how to do familiars. As for animal stats just use the one from 3.5. All it takes to change saves to defence is to add a base 10. Or you could do like I did and get the stats from items that summon animals like the Bags of Tricks. Familiar Level:4__________Component Cost:Special Category:Binding__Market Price:175 Time:24 Hours____Key Skill: Arcana Duration: Permanent This ritual lets you gain a familiar that is a natural beast and it must be size small or smaller. The cost is equal to a Wondrous Item of the familiar’s level. The familiar has hit points equal to two times the value of your healing surge. You control your familiar in the same way as a Figurine of Wondrous Power. For the stats of animals use the stats from the bag of tricks including level. You cannot have more than one familiar at a time. If your familiar is tiny or smaller it can be in your space without problems. If you’re familiar dies you loss two healing surges, if you do not have two healing surges you loss hit points equal to two healing surges. You cannot get a new familiar for at least one month after your familiar dies, the reason for this is that it takes that long for your magic to become unaligned with your familiar. The same holds true for dismissing a familiar. The only thing about your familiar that increase with your level is the familiar’s hit points sense that is tied to your healing surge value. Arcana Check Result________Level of Familiar 4 of lower____________________1-2 5-9__________________________3-4 10-14________________________5-6 15-19________________________7-8 20-24________________________9-10 25-29________________________11-12 30-34________________________13-14 35-39________________________15-16 40-44________________________17-18 45-49________________________19-20 50 or above___________________21-22
#3 pyromancer999 Jan 04, 2009 14:40:43	Interesting. Anyone else willing to help?
#4 Einlanzer Jan 04, 2009 18:01:59	I'd really like to see familiars and other companions make more of a comeback, but i'm so certain those rules are coming that it makes me lazy about creating them myself. I'll help critique though.
#5 wyld_mutation Jan 04, 2009 19:41:51	Steal the Beastmaster's companion mechanics for the stats. It would make sense. Alter attacks by size and level. Familiars should be classed as small so as to have the same pro's and con's as a Halfling in the party.
#6 curtis_ownby Jan 04, 2009 20:26:05	I put a size limit in. How about using the rules for Figerine of Wondrous Power as the rules for a familiar. I plan to use the dog as my familiar when I play if the DM will not let me have a familiar.
#7 rikiji Jan 05, 2009 13:48:08	I've thought about using a variant of the weapon mastery rules for familiars - that opens the ability up to more classes at the cost of a few feats and the option to multiclass. Familiars are generally noncombatants so I'm not sure they need their own combat stats - it seems easier to play them as an extension of their master.
#8 anubis_reynard Jan 06, 2009 15:03:05	I'd actually rather see Familiars as a new Implement- you can cast spells through them, and they don't have to be in your square, but they themselves are relatively useless in combat. Also, the wizard (who automatically gets Ritual caster anyway) would get the ability to enchant his familiar with an enhancement bonus.
#9 wyld_mutation Jan 06, 2009 15:54:00	"Familiar Implement" Feat? That would be interesting... Hmmm... I should brainstorm for that...
#10 anubis_reynard Jan 06, 2009 16:57:08	"Familiar Implement" Feat? That would be interesting... Hmmm... I should brainstorm for that... Class feature, actually. Instead of Wand of Accuracy or Staff of Defence, you have a familiar, who can be "you" for the purpose of spells out to a range of (x). X probably being 5 squares or less. An improved Arcane Reach, because Push effects push from you, not the origin of the effect.
#11 wyld_mutation Jan 06, 2009 17:25:39	Well... I was thinking of making it a feat with the Arcane Power SOurce requirement, and allowing you to use a Familiar Implement. And then giving them "special" powers of some sort...
#12 Rustmonster Jan 06, 2009 19:28:52	Familiars should be classed as small so as to have the same pro's and con's as a Halfling in the party. The only penalty a Halfling takes for being small is not being able to use 2 handed weapons. Familiars don't use a weapon.
#13 harmesis Jan 06, 2009 19:40:08	Check out the new Quintessential Wizard. Its has familiar rules using rituals to summon and bind them.
#14 mouthymerc Jan 06, 2009 22:02:32	Check out the new Quintessential Wizard. Its has familiar rules using rituals to summon and bind them. Hmm, interesting. I had this idea.
#15 pauln6 Jan 07, 2009 9:16:56	I think familiars should be treated as implements and would need some kind of implement specialisation wizard class feature plus [Familiar] magical items akin to [Mount] items. I'm not overly familiar (no pun intended) with rules for temporary hit points but couldn't familars be statted using basic tiny animal stats as minions and then given temporary hit points/boosts to defences based on their master's level?
#16 batshido Jan 07, 2009 9:47:08	I have a player with a +3 Toad of Frost. So far we haven't had any issues simply using them as implements. It's not the solution the OP seems to be looking for, but it's a quick and easy way to get them into your games if that's the goal.
#17 rikiji Jan 07, 2009 12:05:54	I like the idea of using them as implements. Using a feat-based entry like wyld_mutation's suggesting lets them plug into the existing system and gives options for rounding them out nicely (sort of an arcane variation on superior weapons). In keeping with previous edition lore, I'd probably want the entry feat to give access to a level 1 ritual that allows you to summon and bind them.
#18 wyld_mutation Jan 07, 2009 19:07:23	The only penalty a Halfling takes for being small is not being able to use 2 handed weapons. Familiars don't use a weapon. Actually I was referring to encounter design. In 3e Familiars were tiny... And so with the write choices could be pretty disruptive. Of course their masters were even more disruptive. Particularly... If your Warlock has a familiar and is locked in a dungeon where he can't use his power... He can send a Tiny familiar out of a cell to steal the keys or some such thing. Or does nobody else think of SIZE when they work out an encounter?
#19 pyromancer999 Jan 08, 2009 16:08:18	This all sounds interesting, but hwo would a familiar work as an implement? would it just be another origin point for the caster?