Faster Combat Rules (PEACH) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Faster Combat Rules (PEACH)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Impalpable
Apr 15, 2010 20:01:10 I have heard that though many people really like 4e there are complaints about combat duration. I've heard of quite a few solutions to this, most dealing with cutting the hitpoints and then upping the damage potential of enemies. I thought I'd try a different method. I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following:

#2
Sinasilver
Apr 16, 2010 18:26:59 Not necessarily a bad solution, over-all looks like it pretends combat happened(what with lost dailies or surges). Though the exact costs I'm a little wary of. For one, I find it amusing the brute is more damaging to "Get on with" than to fight, since it has been noted that they suffer terrible inaccuracy about these forums.

Your costs in general might be sommewhat steep too be honest, but I've not playtested it to see how much it actually costs per player. If it's usually 1-2 per battle sped up in this manner, it's likey fine, but any more than that and your players are better off fighting it out.
#3
Impalpable
Apr 16, 2010 19:55:05 Thanks for considering this option, Sinasilver.
I should explain how I came up with the numbers used here. I didn't base the Healing Surge Cost off of how much damage a given creature type would do, rather by their hit point totals. Essentially the problem my group has is that the monsters just have lots of hit points, which doesn't seem to add to the risk factor of the combat just the time it takes to get through them. So I figured the longer something was staying in the fight the more damage it would cause to the group. Had I the math skills to come up with damage potential by monster role I'd gladly switch things around a bit. Alas, math is not my strong suit and this is really just a frame work at this point.

As for the costs in general being steep, that's precisely the kind of input I need on this. Pulling back the curtain I can tell you I arbitrarily came up with the surge costs. I just started at 2 surges for the monsters on the lowest end of the hit point scale and went up by one from there.

Not very preciese I know, but again, math me no good at.

Thanks again for your input and let me know if you have a better formula within the same framework.
#4
blacksheepcannibal
Apr 17, 2010 13:41:22 As far as the mechanics go, I like the idea - I've been considering something similar myself, although I haven't implemented it (or made it look so good written down). It's not uncommon for me to have monsters flee or just drop on the next hit when I know a combat has been won, instead of grinding it down to a nub.

Personally, I would remove the option entirely of removing an un-bloodied opponent, minions, or solo monsters. You might also consider having it a baseline 2 surges per bloodied monster (or 4 for an elite) instead of breaking them up by roles. I think instead of just removing the monsters entirely, spending surges to reduce them to 1 hit point might be a bit more scenic, and convey the idea of "mopping up the survivors" a bit better.

If you're having problems with the so-called "padded sumo" effect - that is, the hp bloat is dragging your fights out too long - you may also want to poke around and find some of the other threads offering advice to speed up combats. Most of it will talk about encounter composition, environmental effects, and not being afraid to have monsters run away when the fight looks grim (as much as that bothers players, for some reason).
#5
countesskathleen
Apr 18, 2010 3:58:18 Looking at the cost table, I'd say a Solo being essentially 5 monsters should cost 5 times the surges instead of three times.

The basic (though not necessarily recommendable) solo fight would include nothing but the solo itself which after being bloodied (which is the prerequisite for getting on with it) would only cost each character a surge at most.

Apart from that, the chart seems fine though you could really diminish the cost gaps between roles or eliminate the role differentiation alltogether.
#6
FaustianPenguin
Apr 19, 2010 0:33:58 This doesn't take into consideration the level of the monster at all.

Sorta dumb.
#7
stargazer_dragon
May 04, 2010 23:51:04
I would sugest a few things,

use more minions hp isn't a issue then

make monster run once they know there going to lose, makes sence the player would do it so why not the npc's

reduce the hp of the monster and reduce the xp as well by a even amount, 50% hp 50% xp or some sorta math like that (not my strong point eather lol

use average damage for all monsters not just minions, less rolls means less time

use hazards and traps to make up for some of the combats xp, means less monsters same xp

as for your set up I would remove the role entirely, each role is suposed to do about the same damage based over all, some have better damage output less hp others have average damage average hp good defences over all hp defences damage output and acurace balences all monster out by lv. Instead of a suge cost varried by role vary it by lvl difrence.

Also a easy way would be to cut all monsters hp in half then after the combat whatever damage the players have taken for the combat is doubled, this gives a prety acurate way to shorten the combat and still have the damage be about the same when using these rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Impalpable Apr 15, 2010 20:01:10	I have heard that though many people really like 4e there are complaints about combat duration. I've heard of quite a few solutions to this, most dealing with cutting the hitpoints and then upping the damage potential of enemies. I thought I'd try a different method. I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following:
#2 Sinasilver Apr 16, 2010 18:26:59	Not necessarily a bad solution, over-all looks like it pretends combat happened(what with lost dailies or surges). Though the exact costs I'm a little wary of. For one, I find it amusing the brute is more damaging to "Get on with" than to fight, since it has been noted that they suffer terrible inaccuracy about these forums. Your costs in general might be sommewhat steep too be honest, but I've not playtested it to see how much it actually costs per player. If it's usually 1-2 per battle sped up in this manner, it's likey fine, but any more than that and your players are better off fighting it out.
#3 Impalpable Apr 16, 2010 19:55:05	Thanks for considering this option, Sinasilver. I should explain how I came up with the numbers used here. I didn't base the Healing Surge Cost off of how much damage a given creature type would do, rather by their hit point totals. Essentially the problem my group has is that the monsters just have lots of hit points, which doesn't seem to add to the risk factor of the combat just the time it takes to get through them. So I figured the longer something was staying in the fight the more damage it would cause to the group. Had I the math skills to come up with damage potential by monster role I'd gladly switch things around a bit. Alas, math is not my strong suit and this is really just a frame work at this point. As for the costs in general being steep, that's precisely the kind of input I need on this. Pulling back the curtain I can tell you I arbitrarily came up with the surge costs. I just started at 2 surges for the monsters on the lowest end of the hit point scale and went up by one from there. Not very preciese I know, but again, math me no good at. Thanks again for your input and let me know if you have a better formula within the same framework.
#4 blacksheepcannibal Apr 17, 2010 13:41:22	As far as the mechanics go, I like the idea - I've been considering something similar myself, although I haven't implemented it (or made it look so good written down). It's not uncommon for me to have monsters flee or just drop on the next hit when I know a combat has been won, instead of grinding it down to a nub. Personally, I would remove the option entirely of removing an un-bloodied opponent, minions, or solo monsters. You might also consider having it a baseline 2 surges per bloodied monster (or 4 for an elite) instead of breaking them up by roles. I think instead of just removing the monsters entirely, spending surges to reduce them to 1 hit point might be a bit more scenic, and convey the idea of "mopping up the survivors" a bit better. If you're having problems with the so-called "padded sumo" effect - that is, the hp bloat is dragging your fights out too long - you may also want to poke around and find some of the other threads offering advice to speed up combats. Most of it will talk about encounter composition, environmental effects, and not being afraid to have monsters run away when the fight looks grim (as much as that bothers players, for some reason).
#5 countesskathleen Apr 18, 2010 3:58:18	Looking at the cost table, I'd say a Solo being essentially 5 monsters should cost 5 times the surges instead of three times. The basic (though not necessarily recommendable) solo fight would include nothing but the solo itself which after being bloodied (which is the prerequisite for getting on with it) would only cost each character a surge at most. Apart from that, the chart seems fine though you could really diminish the cost gaps between roles or eliminate the role differentiation alltogether.
#6 FaustianPenguin Apr 19, 2010 0:33:58	This doesn't take into consideration the level of the monster at all. Sorta dumb.
#7 stargazer_dragon May 04, 2010 23:51:04	I would sugest a few things, use more minions hp isn't a issue then make monster run once they know there going to lose, makes sence the player would do it so why not the npc's reduce the hp of the monster and reduce the xp as well by a even amount, 50% hp 50% xp or some sorta math like that (not my strong point eather lol use average damage for all monsters not just minions, less rolls means less time use hazards and traps to make up for some of the combats xp, means less monsters same xp as for your set up I would remove the role entirely, each role is suposed to do about the same damage based over all, some have better damage output less hp others have average damage average hp good defences over all hp defences damage output and acurace balences all monster out by lv. Instead of a suge cost varried by role vary it by lvl difrence. Also a easy way would be to cut all monsters hp in half then after the combat whatever damage the players have taken for the combat is doubled, this gives a prety acurate way to shorten the combat and still have the damage be about the same when using these rules.