Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chapien Jul 27, 2008 18:24:48	I have been playing a computer game called FATE. It is a game revolving around a massive-dungeon that you explore, and in the end you fight a powerful boss monster, but even then there is still more of the dungeon to explore (the boss isn't until the mid to high 40th floors, it is random for everyone but always in the 40s) and I was thinking about creating a dungeon for 4e based off of the FATE dungeon. I probably won't have my players explore it for a while, we haven't even begun a 4e campaign yet, but I am just wondering what you all think of this idea. and if there is any advice for me. My biggest question is if I should make the dungeon random or not, or only make some of the floors random, but I would just like advice in general. Chapien:D
#2 pigknight Jul 27, 2008 22:08:04	I think there's something like this already. A dungeon that is an entire campain setting or something like that. Am I right?
#3 chapien Jul 27, 2008 22:11:28	I think there's something like this already. A dungeon that is an entire campain setting or something like that. Am I right? I know they have something like that in 3.5, but I am not so sure about 4e... And please, no one suggest 'Underdark' to me! I know about the Underdark and that is NOT what I am looking for. Although the dungeon might have connections to the Underdark...
#4 consul_vido Jul 27, 2008 22:50:53	My step-brother once ran my brother and a friend of ours through a massive dungeon called Rappun Athuk (a Sword & Sorcery 3.5 product). Our characters were all horribly killed in the first session shortly after my step-brother threw a bunch of were-rats at us and then discovered none of us had silver weapons. But anyway, as to your question, if your players enjoy the thrill of combat and exploration, they might enjoy a near-endless dungeon crawl. If they prefer more story-driven plots, it might not be their cup of tea. So ultimately, I think the decision of if it would be a good idea to run depends on your players. I believe the back of the DMG actually has a passage describing a method for creating random dungeons, but I think encounters you have planned out yourself would prove more interesting. If more effort is put into interesting terrain and tactics, it tends to make the fight more fun in my opinion. But using some random battles should be doable.
#5 chapien Jul 27, 2008 22:56:49	I agree with the random encounter thing, and I have an idea already for one of the early floors. A kobold and a goblin tribe have both appeared on one of the floors, and both are tearing each other apart. The battle spills to the surface, and it is up to the PCs to stop the struggle, one way or another... This is just an idea for the first floor, of course. Every floor is different from the next, but the entire dungeon is an abandoned Dwarfhold, former capital of a great Dwarven Empire.
#6 Ra-Tiel Jul 28, 2008 9:09:37	You probably mean the World's Largest Dungeon, a massive 3.5 dungeon crawl including (iirc) every monster in the SRD (templated versions included) that takes the characters from level 1 to level 21 or somesuch. whole map
#7 chapien Jul 28, 2008 11:53:29	You probably mean the World's Largest Dungeon, a massive 3.5 dungeon crawl including (iirc) every monster in the SRD (templated versions included) that takes the characters from level 1 to level 21 or somesuch. whole map
#8 rico_huerta Jul 28, 2008 16:57:16	I've played fate...I think you could utilize teleportation portals to get back to a base point. I think a random dungeon would be good for each level. Each floor would have a theme of monsters, such as ghosts, zombies, etc. At a random point on each level would be a powerful solo monster that holds the key to an enclosed staircase to the next level...what do you think?
#9 chapien Jul 28, 2008 22:03:38	I've played fate...I think you could utilize teleportation portals to get back to a base point. I think a random dungeon would be good for each level. Each floor would have a theme of monsters, such as ghosts, zombies, etc. At a random point on each level would be a powerful solo monster that holds the key to an enclosed staircase to the next level...what do you think? Ya I like that... sounds alot like tha FATE dungeon as well. I really like that idea, but maybe one theme would be a bit dull on tha massive floors, for, like in FATE, I think it would be cool for the floors to get bigger as it goes on. As for the key thing, I like that as well because in FATE sometimes the stairs leading down wound up right where you started, and if this happened in my dungeon, the PCs still would have to find the boss with the key... I like that idea:D As for the teleportation idea from FATE, I like that aswell, it would be a pain to go all the way back through all the floors (in FATE I once forgot to bring a teleport scroll... never forgot it again...). But my qquestion is, how would I create this spell. I don't think there is anything like it in the PHB... maybe I could just modify the current teleportation spell, or maybe even create a new spell.
#10 pigknight Jul 29, 2008 0:31:06	Rituals are your friend. A cheap level 1 ritual.
#11 Dreamstryder Jul 29, 2008 1:11:22	I have not played FATE, but from what I gather it is similar to the Etrian Odyssey/Yggdrasil Labyrinth video games and the Tower of Druaga anime, in which there is a massive dungeon, more grown than built, winding frighteningly upward, or countless fathoms down. The environment or even the season or flow of time might change with the stratum, guilds of surrounding towns cut livelihoods out of what they harvest therein, and villages may crop up as waystops and stable communities inside the labyrinth. Countries may even wage wars over possession of it. If it's entirely random, it loses puzzle structure. I would first lend a loose structure to each floor first, each floor being a web of area names connected by lines, where locks block passage, what areas hold the a keys, and where you want encounter A to happen, etc. Each area is randomly generated but connected to the others according to the structure you made. This can be very casual; as each floor needn't be too detailed or have too many areas, and you can fluctuate the sizes of each area by randomly generating a larger/smaller space. The structure is just there to make sure it flows puzzles, combat, rests, gauntlets, and warp points in a pleasing manner as the PCs adventure thru.
#12 chapien Jul 29, 2008 16:38:33	Great! Thanks for the help so far... as I said I may not do this dungeon for a while, but it is good to have it done already I guess:D Now, there is something about FATE that I want to know if it is convertable to D&D. In FATE, you could sometimes stumble upon a treasure room, a room with literally piles of gold. Sometimes it was unguarded, other times trapped, yet most of the time it was guarded by either a single powerful boss monster or by a horde of monsters. Think something like a treasure room would be "do-able" in D&D?
#13 consul_vido Jul 29, 2008 17:53:40	It should be totally doable. With the Treasure Parcel system in 4E, you would merely assign multiple parcels to the treasure room, balanced out by fighting monsters or defeating challenges elsewhere that have little or no treasure. Basically it would just mean that instead of stumbling across some GP here, a magic sword there, a spiffy shield over yonder, all the most impressive rewards are lumped into one place.
#14 chapien Jul 29, 2008 17:59:24	It should be totally doable. With the Treasure Parcel system in 4E, you would merely assign multiple parcels to the treasure room, balanced out by fighting monsters or defeating challenges elsewhere that have little or no treasure. Basically it would just mean that instead of stumbling across some GP here, a magic sword there, a spiffy shield over yonder, all the most impressive rewards are lumped into one place. Great! Also, I intend on doing Rico_Huerta's idea with the boss that has the key to the next floor... do you think it would be possible, maybe for some of the floors, to have the boss with the key in the treasure room? And maybe multiple bosses on one floor, but only one has the key? And should every floor have a treasure room, or only some?
#15 kittenstew Jul 29, 2008 18:17:56	If I could add a suggestion: It would also be cool if there is some kind of story to this dungeon. I don't know what the story is in "Fate" but there should be a reason WHY this Dungeon is here and why the characters need to go through the whole thing. I don't think it needs to be complicated. And you could have a small number of pre-made encounters that the characters get (perhaps 1 per level of the dungeon, or 1 per Character level?) that explain the story and the who, what, when, where, why of the dungeon. Perhaps a small story on each level as well? Neet Idea so far.
#16 chapien Jul 29, 2008 18:28:05	If I could add a suggestion: It would also be cool if there is some kind of story to this dungeon. I don't know what the story is in "Fate" but there should be a reason WHY this Dungeon is here and why the characters need to go through the whole thing. I don't think it needs to be complicated. And you could have a small number of pre-made encounters that the characters get (perhaps 1 per level of the dungeon, or 1 per Character level?) that explain the story and the who, what, when, where, why of the dungeon. Perhaps a small story on each level as well? Neet Idea so far. I have been thinking of storyline, but as of now the storyline for the dungeon is a bit sketchy: The dungeon once was the capital for a great dwarven empire that spanned the land. But eventually, the dwarves dug to deep, and numerous of the levels became connected to the Underdark. Due to this, most of the deeper floors were abandoned and became massive guard posts for dwarven warriors. Finally, when the miners finally dug the 45th floor (the higher the lower, confusing I know), the dwarves had dug to far. Hordes of goblins overran numerous floors, and a dark and powerful evil emerged from the deepest reaches of the Underdark and claimed the 45th floor for himself... Currently, there is a small dwarven town located outside the dungeon (in my world, some dwarves live in surface outposts).
#17 pigknight Jul 29, 2008 19:00:22	Seems like Moria...but a balor/pit fiend in there. Do eet.
#18 kittenstew Jul 29, 2008 19:47:09	Perhaps work in a slave rescue story, where some of the dwarves that were captured long ago have ancestors that are being kept in servitude and the PC's have to get to the lower levels to rescue them. And near the end, make it something really crazy bad - like Orcus, or Cthulhu.
#19 chapien Jul 29, 2008 20:05:27	Perhaps work in a slave rescue story, where some of the dwarves that were captured long ago have ancestors that are being kept in servitude and the PC's have to get to the lower levels to rescue them. And near the end, make it something really crazy bad - like Orcus, or Cthulhu. Ya, that is a good idea, but remember, my whole campaign won't be based around it. My PCs might get some quests to do some tasks in the dungeon (get revenge on some goblin raider, re-aquire lost artifact, etc.), or they might enter it accidentily through the Underdark, or they might do both, so the final enemy might be something crazy bad, liek Orcus, or I might just make a plain old Barlor or a plain old Pit Fiend.
#20 seyon Dec 23, 2008 22:28:21	Now listen up, The whole point of FATE is that you usually have to go to the lowest level of the dungeon (59th-61st or so), and as you descend into the dungeon (each one for a level) you do quests which help you get XP. Just have something effect the cosmic balance of the world, juju, etc. and they have to descend. If you want a DungeonCrawl (which FATE isn't) then set up portals leading up back to town, scrolls, etc. One thing to note: In FATE there is always at least one NPC on a floor. Unless hes unconscious, he shouldnt be there. OR should he ...