Feat: Third Hand - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Feat: Third Hand

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
haplo81
May 08, 2009 15:15:58 Let's face it, Flails don't get much feat lovin' as of now. Sweeping Flail is crap, and Dragging Flail is nowhere near the same league as Polearm Momentum or HBO. Therefore, I submit the feat Third Hand.

Third Hand (Heroic)
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: You can make grab attacks with flails. If you do so, the attack is at your melee reach with that flail.
In addition, when you use attack powers that grab a target, you do not need a hand free, and you may make the attack at your melee reach with that flail.
You cannot make attacks with a flail while you have a target grabbed with that flail, including secondary or tertiary attacks with powers that grab targets.

Useful for every single flail wielder? Nope. Awesome for a focused build? I think so.
#2
jaelis
May 08, 2009 15:51:50 Nice idea, but some suggestions:

1) I like more descriptive feat names, myself. Like "Grabbing Flail" or something.

2) Do your [weapon] modifiers (proficiency bonus, enhancement bonus, etc) apply to the grab attack? I'd say they shouldn't, but the feat should be clear.

3) "while you have a target grabbed with that flail" isn't well defined. A target is either grabbed or not. Also, not being able to attack is a pretty major downside.

I might say instead:
Benefit: While wielding a flail, you can make a grab attack with the same reach as your flail. Also, you can make a grab attack even if you don't have a free hand.
#3
haplo81
May 08, 2009 18:26:28
Nice idea, but some suggestions:

1) I like more descriptive feat names, myself. Like "Grabbing Flail" or something.

2) Do your [weapon] modifiers (proficiency bonus, enhancement bonus, etc) apply to the grab attack? I'd say they shouldn't, but the feat should be clear.

3) "while you have a target grabbed with that flail" isn't well defined. A target is either grabbed or not. Also, not being able to attack is a pretty major downside.

I might say instead:
Benefit: While wielding a flail, you can make a grab attack with the same reach as your flail. Also, you can make a grab attack even if you don't have a free hand.

No, you wouldn't get your weapon modifiers. The bit about grabbing "with that flail" is to clarify that a dual flail wielder can still attack with the other flail unless that flail is also being used to grab.
#4
misterarcane
May 08, 2009 19:59:13 I'll admit I don't know about if this would be wise from a balence POV, but flavour-wise, maybe this should also apply to whips?
#5
haplo81
May 08, 2009 20:46:35
I'll admit I don't know about if this would be wise from a balence POV, but flavour-wise, maybe this should also apply to whips?

Whips belong to the flail group.
#6
misterarcane
May 09, 2009 3:44:35 Huh, so they are, I never looked too closely at them... a bit of a reach fitting them in, but not too far-fetched... I havn't yet made a charecter that whips and flails would be too useful, so I didn't look that them too closely, just observed the whip training feats and assumed that they had thier own class.
#7
jrgumby
May 09, 2009 12:32:01 Preventing all melee attacks is a huge drawback. They should at least be allowed to attack their grabbed target.

I like the shorter "grab attacks w/ flail range" description, I think it's closer to what you were going for.

The other question is what happens to the grabbed character? Do you pull it towards you? Does it just stand there?

Maybe you could also forgo a normal attack to make a second grab when a target is grabbed, if successful it knocks them prone and pulls 1-2 squares?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 haplo81 May 08, 2009 15:15:58	Let's face it, Flails don't get much feat lovin' as of now. Sweeping Flail is crap, and Dragging Flail is nowhere near the same league as Polearm Momentum or HBO. Therefore, I submit the feat Third Hand. Third Hand (Heroic) Prerequisite: Dex 13 Benefit: You can make grab attacks with flails. If you do so, the attack is at your melee reach with that flail. In addition, when you use attack powers that grab a target, you do not need a hand free, and you may make the attack at your melee reach with that flail. You cannot make attacks with a flail while you have a target grabbed with that flail, including secondary or tertiary attacks with powers that grab targets. Useful for every single flail wielder? Nope. Awesome for a focused build? I think so.
#2 jaelis May 08, 2009 15:51:50	Nice idea, but some suggestions: 1) I like more descriptive feat names, myself. Like "Grabbing Flail" or something. 2) Do your [weapon] modifiers (proficiency bonus, enhancement bonus, etc) apply to the grab attack? I'd say they shouldn't, but the feat should be clear. 3) "while you have a target grabbed with that flail" isn't well defined. A target is either grabbed or not. Also, not being able to attack is a pretty major downside. I might say instead: Benefit: While wielding a flail, you can make a grab attack with the same reach as your flail. Also, you can make a grab attack even if you don't have a free hand.
#3 haplo81 May 08, 2009 18:26:28	Nice idea, but some suggestions: 1) I like more descriptive feat names, myself. Like "Grabbing Flail" or something. 2) Do your [weapon] modifiers (proficiency bonus, enhancement bonus, etc) apply to the grab attack? I'd say they shouldn't, but the feat should be clear. 3) "while you have a target grabbed with that flail" isn't well defined. A target is either grabbed or not. Also, not being able to attack is a pretty major downside. I might say instead: Benefit: While wielding a flail, you can make a grab attack with the same reach as your flail. Also, you can make a grab attack even if you don't have a free hand. No, you wouldn't get your weapon modifiers. The bit about grabbing "with that flail" is to clarify that a dual flail wielder can still attack with the other flail unless that flail is also being used to grab.
#4 misterarcane May 08, 2009 19:59:13	I'll admit I don't know about if this would be wise from a balence POV, but flavour-wise, maybe this should also apply to whips?
#5 haplo81 May 08, 2009 20:46:35	I'll admit I don't know about if this would be wise from a balence POV, but flavour-wise, maybe this should also apply to whips? Whips belong to the flail group.
#6 misterarcane May 09, 2009 3:44:35	Huh, so they are, I never looked too closely at them... a bit of a reach fitting them in, but not too far-fetched... I havn't yet made a charecter that whips and flails would be too useful, so I didn't look that them too closely, just observed the whip training feats and assumed that they had thier own class.
#7 jrgumby May 09, 2009 12:32:01	Preventing all melee attacks is a huge drawback. They should at least be allowed to attack their grabbed target. I like the shorter "grab attacks w/ flail range" description, I think it's closer to what you were going for. The other question is what happens to the grabbed character? Do you pull it towards you? Does it just stand there? Maybe you could also forgo a normal attack to make a second grab when a target is grabbed, if successful it knocks them prone and pulls 1-2 squares?