Feats of all tiers - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Feats of all tiers

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Shadowfax7
Feb 24, 2009 19:37:21 I am going to run a 4e campaign from 1st to 10th level (Heroic tier) only and I wanted to allow PCs to also choose feats from the Paragon and Epic tiers.

This campaign would be VERY low magic, thus magic items would be almost non-existent and the Paragon/Epic tier feats chosen at the Heroic tier could compensate for the lack of magic items. All prerequisites would still be required, thus the more powerful feats would still be out of reach of low level PCs.

I really don't find a huge power surge between Heroic tier feats and Paragon/Epic tier feats if the prereqs are followed.

Opinions ??
#2
tequila_sunrise
Feb 24, 2009 20:10:55
I really don't find a huge power surge between Heroic tier feats and Paragon/Epic tier feats if the prereqs are followed.

There isn't. High level feats might be fun, but they won't compensate for reduced magical items. In order to compensate for that you'll have to either modify every single monster your PCs fight or give your PCs the bonuses that they would normally get via magical items through some other means. My way is to give my PCs an "awesome bonus" to attacks, damage, defenses and crit dice according to their level:

Level
1-5 +1 (1d6 crit dice)
6-10 +2 (2d6)
11-15 +3 (3d6)
16-20 +4 (4d6)
21-25 +5 (5d6)
26-30 +6 (6d6)

Edit: Those bonuses are actually enhancement bonuses, so they don't stack with magical items. Nor do the crit dice (the best ones apply).
#3
Shadowfax7
Feb 24, 2009 20:21:51 I will definitely balance the campaign appropriately for the lack of magic items. This thread is really for the fact that I don't find a big power difference between the feats of the different tiers and was wondering if anyone else thought the same.
#4
Krusk
Feb 24, 2009 20:29:17 I wouldn't do this. What you are doing is essentialy taking one strong thing from the PCs, at the addition of adding something totally different that isalso strong back in.

It would be like taking the word TEAM, and removing the E, but adding a U instead. Sure both are vowles, but they aren't quite the same. The word TUAM doesn't quite work.

Most epic and paragon tier feats are quite a bit better than heroic, so I would simply advise against that.

As for items. Consider a "Heroic" or "Class" bonus to a attack and defenses. +1 up until 5th level, and then a +2. This keeps the same balance as before, but takes away the magical item-ness of it.

-Ninjaed by TS, whose system I was basically stealing from memory anyway.
#5
tequila_sunrise
Feb 24, 2009 21:53:30
I will definitely balance the campaign appropriately for the lack of magic items. This thread is really for the fact that I don't find a big power difference between the feats of the different tiers and was wondering if anyone else thought the same.

I think paragon feats generally are better than heroic feats, but I don't think it would break the game to allow them in the heroic tier. If you want to try this house rule, I think you should. It might work out, it might not; either way you learn something.

TS
#6
trailfoot
Feb 25, 2009 13:52:39 I think the effect on game balance would be... well, unpredictable. If you do it, report on it after?
#7
Shadowfax7
Feb 28, 2009 11:49:01 I definitely will, but it will a long time before I do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Shadowfax7 Feb 24, 2009 19:37:21	I am going to run a 4e campaign from 1st to 10th level (Heroic tier) only and I wanted to allow PCs to also choose feats from the Paragon and Epic tiers. This campaign would be VERY low magic, thus magic items would be almost non-existent and the Paragon/Epic tier feats chosen at the Heroic tier could compensate for the lack of magic items. All prerequisites would still be required, thus the more powerful feats would still be out of reach of low level PCs. I really don't find a huge power surge between Heroic tier feats and Paragon/Epic tier feats if the prereqs are followed. Opinions ??
#2 tequila_sunrise Feb 24, 2009 20:10:55	I really don't find a huge power surge between Heroic tier feats and Paragon/Epic tier feats if the prereqs are followed. There isn't. High level feats might be fun, but they won't compensate for reduced magical items. In order to compensate for that you'll have to either modify every single monster your PCs fight or give your PCs the bonuses that they would normally get via magical items through some other means. My way is to give my PCs an "awesome bonus" to attacks, damage, defenses and crit dice according to their level: Level 1-5 +1 (1d6 crit dice) 6-10 +2 (2d6) 11-15 +3 (3d6) 16-20 +4 (4d6) 21-25 +5 (5d6) 26-30 +6 (6d6) Edit: Those bonuses are actually enhancement bonuses, so they don't stack with magical items. Nor do the crit dice (the best ones apply).
#3 Shadowfax7 Feb 24, 2009 20:21:51	I will definitely balance the campaign appropriately for the lack of magic items. This thread is really for the fact that I don't find a big power difference between the feats of the different tiers and was wondering if anyone else thought the same.
#4 Krusk Feb 24, 2009 20:29:17	I wouldn't do this. What you are doing is essentialy taking one strong thing from the PCs, at the addition of adding something totally different that isalso strong back in. It would be like taking the word TEAM, and removing the E, but adding a U instead. Sure both are vowles, but they aren't quite the same. The word TUAM doesn't quite work. Most epic and paragon tier feats are quite a bit better than heroic, so I would simply advise against that. As for items. Consider a "Heroic" or "Class" bonus to a attack and defenses. +1 up until 5th level, and then a +2. This keeps the same balance as before, but takes away the magical item-ness of it. -Ninjaed by TS, whose system I was basically stealing from memory anyway.
#5 tequila_sunrise Feb 24, 2009 21:53:30	I will definitely balance the campaign appropriately for the lack of magic items. This thread is really for the fact that I don't find a big power difference between the feats of the different tiers and was wondering if anyone else thought the same. I think paragon feats generally are better than heroic feats, but I don't think it would break the game to allow them in the heroic tier. If you want to try this house rule, I think you should. It might work out, it might not; either way you learn something. TS
#6 trailfoot Feb 25, 2009 13:52:39	I think the effect on game balance would be... well, unpredictable. If you do it, report on it after?
#7 Shadowfax7 Feb 28, 2009 11:49:01	I definitely will, but it will a long time before I do.