Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dizzyxi Jul 13, 2008 18:48:50	In my personal opinion, the problem with a lot of utility spells being pushed into the realm of rituals, is that it doesn't allow you to create the sort of character who would be using all these things all the time, for all sorts of reasons for convenience and just because he can. The costs and the time required for low level rituals just makes this impossible. With that in mind, I propose two new feats: Arcane Reserves Prerequisites: Arcane, Ritual casting, Int 15 Benefit: You gain 50gp worth of alchemical reagents every day for free. Any that are not used disappear at the end of the day. You can take this feat multiple times, each time you do you increase the amount by another 50gp. You cannot spend more than 50gp of this on one ritual. This cannot be used with the Brew Potion ritual. This allows someone to use low level arcane rituals under 50gp multiple times for free during the course of the day. (These are: Arcane Lock, Comprehend Language, Detect Secret Doors, Disenchant Magic Item, Endure Elements, Eye of Alarm, Gentle Repose, Hallucinatory Item, Knock, Magic Mouth, Secret Page, Sending, Silence, Tenser's Floating Disk, Travelers' Feast and Water Walk). I barred Brew Potion because then they can create a healing potion once a day, and giving the player the ability to stockpile this bonus is not balanced. Ritual Mastery Prerequisites: Arcane, Ritual casting, Int 15 Benefit: You can cast any ritual taking half the time for twice the cost. If the ritual is arcane and takes ten minutes or less, you can cast it as a standard action for twice the cost. (Possible addition here: you can only cast one ritual as a standard action per day) This allows a ritual caster to do a rush job with a ritual as it were, increasing the cost substantially, but getting the job done faster (this can be used to lock doors in an encounter, and other utility spells which would be useful, but expensive.) With the two combined they have the ability to cast some rituals as if they were utility spells, but very few. I think the feat cost for this balances out the increased flexibility this gives the character. Here is the thread where I have been discussing it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1059986 Any opinions would be great!
#2 xalendar Jul 15, 2008 11:20:31	I think Arcane reserve is good. Allowing the Wizard to cast some rituals every days. But Ritual mastery goes against the ritual principle number 1 : no ritual during combat...
#3 quarks_bar_dup Jul 15, 2008 11:35:41	I rather like them both, however I'm iffy on the Arcane restriction because that stops religious types from having that same flexibility.
#4 10_Foot_Pole Jul 15, 2008 13:27:01	You may consider doing something like a "Spell Mantle" where the ritual caster can perform the ritual, then trigger it later in the day. The trigger should be too long to do in combat, so you could fluff it to be like casting the end of the ritual.
#5 dizzyxi Jul 15, 2008 19:26:10	The thing is I think some small powers being used in combat might be quite fun, even if they are just locking/unlocking a door, and similar. There is nothing I can see that is 10 minutes or less that would really be that unbalancing in combat, especially with the high cost; and would enable the wizard to focus more on utility spells. Do you think this is unbalanced, and if so, what rituals are you thinking would be unbalanced?
#6 cal-vigu Jul 16, 2008 11:56:30	In my personal opinion, the problem with a lot of utility spells being pushed into the realm of rituals, is that it doesn't allow you to create the sort of character who would be using all these things all the time, for all sorts of reasons for convenience and just because he can. The costs and the time required for low level rituals just makes this impossible. With that in mind, I propose two new feats: Arcane Reserves Prerequisites: Arcane, Ritual casting, Int 15 Benefit: You gain 50gp worth of alchemical reagents every day for free. Any that are not used disappear at the end of the day. You can take this feat multiple times, each time you do you increase the amount by another 50gp. You cannot spend more than 50gp of this on one ritual. This cannot be used with the Brew Potion ritual. This allows someone to use low level arcane rituals under 50gp multiple times for free during the course of the day. (These are: Arcane Lock, Comprehend Language, Detect Secret Doors, Disenchant Magic Item, Endure Elements, Eye of Alarm, Gentle Repose, Hallucinatory Item, Knock, Magic Mouth, Secret Page, Sending, Silence, Tenser's Floating Disk, Travelers' Feast and Water Walk). I barred Brew Potion because then they can create a healing potion once a day, and giving the player the ability to stockpile this bonus is not balanced. Ritual Mastery Prerequisites: Arcane, Ritual casting, Int 15 Benefit: You can cast any ritual taking half the time for twice the cost. If the ritual is arcane and takes ten minutes or less, you can cast it as a standard action for twice the cost. (Possible addition here: you can only cast one ritual as a standard action per day) This allows a ritual caster to do a rush job with a ritual as it were, increasing the cost substantially, but getting the job done faster (this can be used to lock doors in an encounter, and other utility spells which would be useful, but expensive.) With the two combined they have the ability to cast some rituals as if they were utility spells, but very few. I think the feat cost for this balances out the increased flexibility this gives the character. Here is the thread where I have been discussing it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1059986 Any opinions would be great! Rather than the "Arcane Reserves" (or a like-wise "Divine Reserve") - here's what I'm doing: my ritual spell casters state that they are always on the lookout for the ingredients for ritual spell components while traveling or adventuring. Each day I or they make a skill roll (Arcane or Nature or Dungeoneering - whichever seems to make sense) to see how much they have managed to gather that day. Perhaps some of it requires "processing" to use - but I figure thats something they'll do off-panel, in idle time so its included in the above roll. Its not going to be hundreds of gp worth of stuff each day, and its NOT going to be "risiduum" - but it should be enough to help lessen the the cost of materials some. As for the "Ritual Mastery" - I kinda like it - but I would keep it to just halving the normal ritual time cost while doubling the material expense. I just don't, personally, like the idea of making a ritual as a combat action. My two cents.
#7 inlicere Jul 19, 2008 10:50:04	I think Arcane reserve is good. Allowing the Wizard to cast some rituals every days. But Ritual mastery goes against the ritual principle number 1 : no ritual during combat... Yea, but I'm not sure that that's such a great principle.
#8 theninjad Aug 14, 2008 20:36:09	I really like the idea of Arcane Reserves. Personally, however, I would choose a different name. As it is, it sounds like it shouldn't be used by anyone other than Wizards and Warlocks. Also, I wouldn't allow it to create 50GP worth of alchemical ingredients every day, even if they disappear at the end of the day if not used. As a player, I would find something game breaking to do with these materials. Instead, I would allow the same effect but word it in a way so that you don't actually get anything physical that just magically appears...of course, you could say that you can find the materials and are able to use strange things. Then they would not go away, though. I think Ritual Mastery is not good. I feel that rituals are meant to be used outside of combat almost exclusively.
#9 Cohen95 Aug 14, 2008 21:01:11	It's not a bad feat, but I have a feeling it's coming from poor teammanship, either actual or predicted. Ritual component costs should, by and large, come out of the party's bank account, not the ritualist's. At least, if my party expected me to front the cost of rituals the benefited the party, the answer would be a very firm no. If this is what's caused the need to arise for a feat like this, you should try to address this with the players, before throwing in a feat that, essentially, instantly spawns money. After all, what stops me, as a player, from going into town right before we leave and selling 100gp worth of alchemical reagents? If you say, "well, they disappear if they leave your person." then you're starting to reach into the slightly silly. I could see, perhaps, a Paragon tier feat that allows you to choose a number of rituals that cost less than 100gp, and allows you to cast those rituals for free. Flavor it in such a way as to reflect the advancing of understanding of ritual magic, or something similar. Mind you, as it stands, it's not bad, just a small tweak, to keep people from trying to exploit loopholes. And further, I will admit, I think Rituals should stay out of combat, and, out of combat, there's no reason a given problem that should be solved by a ritual should have a time constrait preventing the current ritual rules to be used as is, unless the DM is deliberately making the situation that way.
#10 ghmessenger Nov 19, 2008 9:48:07	This is almost exactly what I was looking for! Something to make Rituals more accessible, especially at lower levels. As they are, I find the component cost of rituals makes them rather prohibitive (too prohibitive). Here's a feat I've based on yours, (with a slightly diffrent fluff spin, and some crunch modification, taking into account some of the responses to your post) that I plan to make accessible to the players in my game(s). ESCHEW MATERIALS Prerequisites: Ritual Caster feat, Int 15 or Wis 15 Benefit: You are skilled at maximizing the potency of your ritual components, requiring you to use less than you otherwise would. Each day you can forego spending a total of 50gp worth of material component costs. You can divide this benefit between several rituals over the course of the day. This benefit cannot be applied to any ritual with Component Cost: Special. This amount resets every morning. Any savings that are not used during the day cannot be carried over to the next. You can take this feat multiple times, each time you do, you increase the amount by an additional 50gp. You cannot apply more than 50gp of this benefit to any one ritual. Instead of being unable to use it with brew potion, I went with any ritual with component cost: special. If there's anything you think I'm missing/haven't considered, please let me know! Any comments or critiques are appreciated! As for Ritual Casting times, I think I'm just going to (in general) cut the times in half (no feat required). I like the idea of the Wizard/Cleric being able to cast a 5 minute ritual during a 5 minute rest. ie. while people are preparing for the next encounter, the wizard or cleric can be preparing for the next encounter. Thanks again, DizzyXI!
#11 frostden Nov 19, 2008 17:36:39	I think that the problem is the gold cost of the rituals. It's a very, very strong discouragement for using them. Things that rituals achieve can almost always be achieved in a cheaper way, without expending limited resources. I gave my players an artifact of negative entropy. Once every two days it allows them to cast a ritual of their level or lower for free. It does not allow the creation of permanants or economy destroying rituals though (Eg, potion brewing, Item enchanting, raise dead). Just the fun ones.