Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Azuridin_the_aged Oct 17, 2009 23:54:42	Me and my group have attempted to run 4.0 since it was released. All the main players enjoy it but things have had several turns for the worse. Originially we couldnt understand the rules and used quite a few sessions to get a handle on how things work. It went fairly well and im confident the main players of my group and myself have a very strong grasp on things. Heres where it starts to get horrble. Originially we were 3 players and myself as a DM. So i started a new campaign with a freshly home created world. Planned out empires, and locations for players to explore and all the trims and pickings. A few new players wanted to join, 3 to be exact so we talked and agreed. They played for a few months in leveling up the characters and then decided to up and quit. Throwing the group into a severe downfall. We opted to trash the campaign and start again. Second attempt we started with a strong 5 player base covered 4 out of the 5 roles and i even allowed everyone to start at level 5 to keep things interesting and unique as well as give them enough options to really keep things rolling. This time around i scaled down abit with the world and focused on one single section of the continent. Created a major dungeoun for the players to work up to and handle their way into the paragon tier. They were on a major plot to overthrow an archlich who controlled an entire region north of where they were. Several of the friends and kids of the players wanted to try DND so reluctantly i aggreed. We've gone through 6 additionial players since then and now i have 2 of my originial players, and 3 who want to learn. The rest up and left or were removed because they were more interested in the video games or snacks about the table then actually playing. Im talking to the extreme of wasting an entire hour drawing and munching without inputting any effort or a single die roll. So heres my dilema. Im tasked with, yet again, creating a whole new storyline for these individuals to go about and follow. Again im allowing them to start at level 5, with a background of their own creation, and enough things to keep it all interesting and fun. Im stuck on what to do though. I dont want to put the effort and time into creating a whole continent or world if things are just going to fall through again (which im hoping not cause these players are very interested in playing beyond 2 who are just learning). I had a simple idea but im not sure how it would work. And im not sure exactly how much work or effort i should put into the thing without knowing exactly how far things are going to go. Anyways now that im done ranting im going to post to this the plotline i was hoping to setup and work with. I guess im just looking for input on the idea of the storyline, and exactly what i should do for the world map  or any map for that matter a long with if i should even try to setup the whole big lairs again or tempt instead to just setup a sort of random encounter sheet to roll off of for if they manage to come up with something in the wilds. Any and ALL input is greatly appreciatted and thank you for your time.
#2 Azuridin_the_aged Oct 18, 2009 0:09:23	The world of Trigaren was once a lush and beautiful land before the great burning. A war that ravaged across the continent destroying just about all life in its wake. The teaming and budding empires now reduced to rubble and chaos. Leaving only a few locations in the world able or capable of keeping a civlisled populace together. There is no great ruler, no massive empire for the populace's to hang onto. All that is left is the inevitability that the Archlich Vexir and his legions will sweep across the known world consuming everything in their path. Aided by his giant floating citadels, the Necropoli, his legions and lieutenants travel across the lands subjugating entire known continents and worlds. But there is still hope. Prophecies speak of a powerful group of individuals that will step up and finally remove his iron undead grip from the world and restore order. The planets have begun to align and soon the events will be set in motion. The few remaining cities have stepped up to their own desires. Creating and forging great arcane barriers to warn of an impending invasion. Clerics, and holy warriors man the walls utilising their strengths to the gods to destroy the advancing hordes of the legion of undead. The great cities are few now, scattered across the world and left as nothing more than a location of prudence. Waiting for the day when their walls will fall and their populace fall under the sway of the great archlich. One can only pray that the prophecies are true and will release the world for his tyranny. (Players will start) Im planning on starting my players at level 5. Now they will be starting in a holding center for the Archlich's legions. Here the living populace are catalouged and processed before they are given their rightful place in the legions holdings. Wether it be one of the many slaves who man the great Graveyard mines to gather up more soldiers for the legion, or joining the legion itself as a mindless undead warrior. They will be held underground in makeshift tiny cells locked away. Forced to break out and sneak their way through the mine and finally escape hoping to find their way to any sign of civlisation. Here they will be set upon the path to finally confronting the archlich at the campaigns end. I have the levels planned out for what is going to happen, or im hoping will happen, a rough outline if you will. Heres how im seeing things as of now. Beggining session - level 5: The players will form a bond with another by attempting to escape the underground tunnels and their obvious jailors. Arming themselves with weapon and armor before escaping to the air in either one of the legions airships, or flying war mounts. Hit Level 6 - Arrive at a last bastion of civlisation in the nearby populace. Here they will acquire a quest from one of the wealthier members of the city to travel to a dilapitated and forgotten city ruins. Fighting the wilds and other barbaric groups of individuals that have chosen to live in the wastes. They will be tasked with retrieving an ancient artifact that will strengthen the towns defenses thereby making it easier for the town to hold against the legions. Level 7 - After helping the town strengthen their defenses they will acquire the knowledge of the prophecy and be given the name of a hermit who lives far off in the mountains. They must travel to her to seek guidance on how to better combat the Archlich's fortress. In the meanwhilst the local Necropoli will be moving towards the town to destroy it. NOTE: The prophecy will depict the players in someway or another. Explaining them in broad detail to be the ones to bring about the end of the archlich and restore order to the lands. for instance i know a player of mine will be playing a Drow-Dhampyr-Ranger. So the prophecy will state something like.       (Name Here of Ranger) - A great warrior with eyes as keen as the seraphim of a holy host and shot as true as the beating heart of a child. So what do you think? any pointers? any suggestions? Is it a good rough outline to work with?
#3 greygrendel Oct 18, 2009 9:30:31	I'm a fan of the "point of light" approach 4E uses.  Just start small, focus in on the immediate area around the PCs.  You can, of course, detail things characters with the history skill would know and filter down rumors from other areas to give the semblance of life to the campaign. We ran out first 4E game, and I just plucked pieces I liked from other settings and sort of mixed them together.  The PCs have come to the small village of Winterhaven, a village booming with "adventurers", in fact its entire economy is based on them.  Its the only real settlement within a few hundred miles, and is close to both ruins of the old empire and the "Demon Wastes", the "bad guys" of a millenia old war.  Its basically an old west boom town, catering to adventurers who use it as a base but are still transient. This allows me to throw in a little history (old wars, ruins, big bad enemy in a nearby territory that has been quiet for hundreds of years), build upon the information for Winterhaven from KotS to make it more of a thriving boomtown (think a D&D version of Dodge).  Much of the income to the town comes in the way of "adventure charters" where a party registers, pays a licensing fee and then is entitled to discounts at the various businesses as well as access to agents/fixers (as in Shadowrun) who can provide leads, hookds, quests etc.  This set up also allows for things like staking claims to dungeons/crypts (say you find an abandoned crypt in thick swamp that no other group has hit...you stake your claim and reputable groups stay away) and claim jumping (you hear that another company found a promising ruin so you get there and clear it before they can).  It really tooks minimal work but is much fun.
#4 GeezerDM Oct 18, 2009 14:43:48	So heres my dilema. Im tasked with, yet again, creating a whole new storyline for these individuals to go about and follow. Again im allowing them to start at level 5, with a background of their own creation, and enough things to keep it all interesting and fun. Im stuck on what to do though. I dont want to put the effort and time into creating a whole continent or world if things are just going to fall through again (which im hoping not cause these players are very interested in playing beyond 2 who are just learning). I had a simple idea but im not sure how it would work. And im not sure exactly how much work or effort i should put into the thing without knowing exactly how far things are going to go. Anyways now that im done ranting im going to post to this the plotline i was hoping to setup and work with. I'm not sure why you you felt the need to trash the campaign and start over. If I'm reading this correctly, a few of the original players are still present, yes?
#5 tomcardin Oct 18, 2009 15:17:27	I have a suggestion for your world map...to save yourself a lot of work and to help drive your creative process: head over to forum.cartographersguild.com/index.php register and explore their boards for campaign maps that you can use freely. There are also dungeon maps and printable tabletop encounter maps. Almost all of it is geared towards fantasy gaming and its all quite well done. I think just laying one of these maps on the table in front of your players will make wet their appetite for adventure. It will also make it easy for you to be inspired to come up with plots and story and politics.
#6 Azuridin_the_aged Oct 18, 2009 20:40:15	yes somw of the original players are available, but we made a group decision to restart a new because losing so many players invested in the campaign made things rather confuddling.
#7 Svempa Oct 18, 2009 21:36:14	First of all- I would be reluctant to incorporate things "borrowed" from WoW- i.e. the flying necropoli and the flying mounts. Players are sensitive about stuff like this type of "borrowing" and clichés and may start giving you a hard time about it... Like players do. :P But don't give up yet on clichés- they are good. ;) Yeah, I know WotC do this WoW-borrowing in their Forgotten Realms setting for 4th ed. One of the reason I just went "oh please" and abandoned the entire idea of running a campaign in it. But that doesn't mean we can't be better, he he Other than that, I think the concept is good and fascinating enough. The players have a clear goal at first, and a common enemy that is overtly evil to fight through the campaign. This prevents them from loosing focus or interest because they don't know what to do.
#8 GeezerDM Oct 18, 2009 21:36:57	yes somw of the original players are available, but we made a group decision to restart a new because losing so many players invested in the campaign made things rather confuddling. This is one of the problems with running a game with predetermined events, not to mention a predetermined ending. As long as a gaming group is having fun and enjoying what they're doing, it's worthwhile playing any way they please. But, I would suggest, that if your current situation is so chaotic, a more adaptable approach may be called for. You might try running a more free-form, sandbox style of game, until your player situation stabilizes. Then, your players will have some playing experience and you can discuss with them what kind of game they're interested in playing.