Specifically, I've added PH3-style Superior Implement options for "guns-as-implements". No weight is listed because theoretically any "gun" (read: crossbow, mechanically) can be found in any of these "superior implement" forms. The Price, then, is merely added to the normal weapon cost.
Superior Implement bonuses only apply when using the item as an implement, with an Implement power - they have no effect when using the "gun" as a normal weapon.
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While dabbling with the new double-weapon rules, I decided to try my hand an a gunblade. Doing research for it took me to the Final Fantasy wikia, which then lead me all over, and made me decide to better codify my existing "firearms" rules.
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"Firearm" Weapons
For "firearms," I will use plain ol' crossbow stats. Essentially then, "guns" are just refluffed crossbows, which actually works out pretty well. To make them a bit more distinct, I have a few feat options that players can select. The idea with these is that, while "guns" are easy to pick up and use (simple ranged weapons), it takes a bit of training to eke out their full potential.
Arcane Firearm Channelling
Prerequisites: Any arcane class
Benefit: You can use crossbows as implements with any arcane class. You do not gain the weapon's proficiency bonus to attack rolls when using a crossbow as an implement.
Deadly Firearm
Benefit: You treat all crossbows as high crit weapons.
[Note: I wonder if this one shouldn't be bumped up to Paragon, like Deadly Axe. The Drow racial feat that gives High Crit to hand crossbows is what makes me want to keep it here.]
Scatter Shot
Prerequisites: 11th level, Dex 15, Con 17
Benefit: If you miss with a ranged attack with a crossbow and you wouldn't otherwise still deal damage on the miss, you deal damage to your original target equal to your Constitution modifier. This damage receives no modifiers or other benefits you normally gain to weapon damage.
[Note: Instead of having 'blunderbuss' weapons on their own, I just went the easy route, since the "damage on a miss" quality fits them well in the first place. Con as the requisite stat is representative of, say, being able to better control the kick-back of the weapon - better control, more miss damage. That's the theory anyways. Con also makes the feat mesh well with the Careful Shooter feat, and with Dwarves as a race.]
The only "unique" weapon I've statted out thus far is the "gunblade" (or, in D&D terms, the Crossbow Sword). No other "guns" really require new stats.
Double Weapon
Crossbow Sword +3 1d10 ----- 40 gp 10 lb. Heavy blade Stout
- Secondary End +2 1d6 10/20 ----- ----- Crossbow Off-hand, load free
[Note: As was pointed out in the prior thread, very few characters will actually take this weapon, or be able to truly benefit from it. Ranged and two-weapon rangers would both be better served with other superior weapons. Rogues would get no benefit from the heavy blade end. Heavy blade fighters are the best bet, though beastmaster rangers could also benefit (if they select ranged ranger powers as well). The heavy blade fighter is my favorite option; he can multiclass to glean some significant benefit from the secondary end. Ranger gives him some skirmishing options, if he picks ranged powers. Rogue gives him a 1/round sneak attack, which he can trigger with the secondary end, as well as the skirmishing options. To "sweeten the deal," I've also put together a Weapon Mastery multiclass option for the weapon, below. This note? Waaaay too long.
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"Weapon Mastery" Options
The following two multiclass-only options are designed along the same lines as the Weapon Mastery multiclass options from Dragon, and follow those same rules. The first gives a more distinct fighting style for the gunblade user, though it remains most likely in the hands of a heavy-blade fighter. The second expands upon the "gun as an implement" concept, giving a character who wants to go that direction a bit more of a distinction - it's inspired by the "magic guns" of FF:Tactics, and the "gunner" classes of FF:TacticsAdvanced (mostly 2, as I sadly cannot find 1).
Gunblade Mastery
Gunblade Training [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the crossbow sword. When you make a ranged attack with the secondary end of the weapon, you do not provoke opportunity attacks. In addition, when you score a critical hit with the heavy blade end of the weapon, you can make a ranged basic attack against the same target with the secondary end of the weapon as a free action.
Gunblade Novice [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Gunblade Training, 4th level
Benefit: You can swap one 3rd level or higher encounter power you know for the synchronized shot attack power.
Synchronized Shot Feat Power
With expert timing, you fire a bolt into your foe just as your blade bites into him.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow blade.
Target: One creature.
Attack: Strength vs. AC or Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. Make a secondary attack against the same creature, using the secondary end of the weapon.
At 11th level, 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
At 21st level, 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Secondary Attack: Dexterity + 2 vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
At 11th level, 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
At 21st level, 3[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Special: When you choose this power, choose whether you use Strength or Dexterity to make the primary attack.
Gunblade Expert [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Gunblade Training, 8th level
Benefit: You can swap one 6th level or higher utility power you know for the reflex shot stance utility power.
Reflex Shot Stance Feat Power
As you fight, you use the crossbow in your weapon to extend your battlefield presence.
Daily * Martial, Weapon, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow blade.
Effect: Until the stance ends, you threaten all enemies within 2 squares of you with the secondary end of your weapon. If an enemy provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can make a ranged basic attack on the target with the secondary end of your weapon as an opportunity attack.
Gunblade Specialist [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Gunblade Training, 10th level
Benefit: You can swap one 9th level or higher daily power you know for the blowback combo attack power.
Blowback Combo Feat Power
You stab your foe viciously, blast him back and off of your blade with a bolt, then follow up with a final slash.
Daily * Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow blade.
Target: One Creature.
Attack: Strength vs. AC or Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage. Make a secondary attack on the same creature, using the secondary end of the weapon.
At 15th level, 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
At 25th level, 4[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Secondary Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1[W] damage, and you push the target 1 square, and shift into the space that the target occupied. Make a tertiary attack on the same creature, using the blade end of the weapon.
At 15th level, 2[W] damage.
At 25th level, 3[W] damage.
Miss: You push the target 1 square, but do not shift into the space the target occupied, and do not make a tertiary attack.
Tertiary Attack: Strength vs. Reflex or Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
At 15th level, 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
At 25th level, 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Special: When you choose this power, choose whether you use Strength or Dexterity to make the primary and tertiary attacks.
[Notes: I think everything is pretty fair for this one, though I'm a bit concerned about the potential for three attacks with the daily at level 25+. Granted, you only get each if the prior one hit, but still, it's like a slightly changed Blade Cascade. *shrugs*]
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Mystic Gunner
Mystic Gunner Training [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You can use crossbows as implements with any class. You do not gain the weapon's proficiency bonus to attack rolls when using a crossbow as an implement.
Once per encounter, as a free action, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the range of any Area or Ranged implement power. You must wield a crossbow to benefit from this ability.
Mystic Gunner Novice [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Mystic Gunner Training, 4th level
Benefit: You can swap one 3rd level or higher encounter power you know for the launch spell attack power.
Launch Spell Feat Power
You channel magic into your weapon, using it to launch your magic a greater distance.
Encounter * Arcane
Standard Action Area burst 1 within weapon range
At 11th level, burst 2
At 21st level, burst 3
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow as an implement.
Special: This power is considered to have the same keywords and target as the at-will power you use with it.
Effect: Use a blast or burst at-will implement attack power. The power becomes an area burst 1 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range.
At 11th level, the at-will power you use deals +1 die of damage, and the power becomes an area burst 2 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range.
At 21st level, the at-will power you use deals +1 die of damage, and the power becomes an area burst 3 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range.
Mystic Gunner Expert [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Mystic Gunner Training, 8th level
Benefit: You can swap one 6th level or higher utility power you know for the tagged blast utility power.
Tagged Blast Feat Power
A successful hit on a target leaves a glowing mote of energy on it.
Daily * Arcane, Implement
Free Action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow as an implement.
Trigger: You hit a creature with an area or ranged implement attack power.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you and all allies with line of sight to the target know his location, and ignore any penalties for concealment the target may have.
Mystic Gunner Specialist [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Mystic Gunner Training, 10th level
Benefit: You can swap one 9th level or higher daily power you know for the mystic overload attack power.
Mystic Overload Feat Power
You fire your magic through your weapon, leaving it charged with the risidual magic power.
Daily * Arcane
Standard Action Area burst 2 within weapon range
At 15th level, burst 3
At 25th level, burst 4
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow as an implement.
Special: This power is considered to have the same keywords and target as the at-will power you use with it.
Effect: Use a blast or burst at-will implement attack power. The power becomes an area burst 1 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range, and deals +1 die of damage. Until the end of the encounter, while wielding the same crossbow as an implement, you deal +2 damage with implement attack powers.
At 15th level, the at-will power you use deals +2 dice of damage, the power becomes an area burst 3 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range, and you deal +4 damage with implement attack powers.
At 25th level, the at-will power you use deals +2 dice of damage, the power becomes an area burst 4 within a number of squares equal to your weapon range, and you deal +6 damage with implement attack powers.
[Notes: These are fairly "meh" to me. I'd like a better set of powers for the concept, but honestly there's really little that needs to be done in powers outside of the base classes themselves.]
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Dragoon
Dragoon Training [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Str 13, trained in Athletics
Benefit: When you make an Athletics check to jump, roll twice and use either result.
You gain proficiency with all spears, and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with all spears.
Dragoon Novice [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Dragoon Training, 4th level
Benefit: You can swap one 3rd level or higher encounter power you know for the dragon's pounce attack power.
Dragon's Pounce Feat Power
You leap into the air and fall back down, driving your weapon down into your foe.
Encounter
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be wielding a spear.
Special: This power is considered to have the same keywords and and range as the at-will power you use with it.
Target: One creature
Effect: Use a melee at-will weapon attack power. If you hit, you deal +1[W] damage.
At 11th level, the at-will weapon attack power you use deals +2[W] damage.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack.
Dragoon Expert [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Dragoon Training, 8th level
Benefit: You can swap one 6th level or higher utility power you know for the dragoon leap utility power.
Dragoon Leap Feat Power
With expert training you use your spear to help you spring into the air.
At-Will * Martial
Requirement: You must be wielding a spear.
Move Action Personal
Effect: You make an Athletics check to jump with a +5 power bonus. You are considered to have a running start, and the distance you jump can exceed your speed.
Dragoon Specialist [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Mystic Gunner Training, 10th level
Benefit: You can swap one 9th level or higher daily power you know for the dragon's fall attack power.
Dragon's Fall Feat Power
You slam your spear down through your foe, knocking your target and those nearby to the ground.
Daily * Reliable
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be wielding a spear.
Special: This power is considered to have the same keywords and and range as the at-will power you use with it.
Target: One creature
Effect: Use a melee at-will weapon attack power. If you hit, you deal +2[W] damage, the target is knocked prone, and you make a secondary attack against each enemy adjacent to the primary target.
At 15th level, the at-will weapon attack power you use deals +3[W] damage.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is knocked prone.
At 25th level, increase to 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack.
[Note: Not "guns" related, but FF related, which is enough. Mostly an attempt to "run with it" on the "weapon mastery" style classes. It's not limited to martial-only, which I like. I could see several classes multiclassing Dragoon, and all having very different approaches to it: Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Warden, Warlord - each could be very effective with this, and bring something unique to the concept. Beastmaster rangers might also be able to pull it off (and probably something I'm missing).]
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Superior Implements
Guns Price Properties
Accurate gun* +20 Accurate
Blast gun +15 Energized (lightning), energized (thunder)
Blaze gun +15 Empowered crit, energized (fire)
Glacier gun +15 Energized (cold), unstoppable
(*: Personally I'd call it a Mythril gun - but Mythril is a weapon enchantment, so it's not totally correct.)
Rules for Superior Implements (including property explanations) can be found in PH3, page 195.
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Closing
Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I know it looks like a bit to sift through (and a bit like madness, to boot), but any help would be great. And even if you can't (or don't care to) provide feedback, enjoy!
Re: Heavy Blade for Rogues. I didn't know about that one. Hm. Which issue is it in? I'll have to have the resident DDI-subscribing-player let me take a look at it.
I thought of doing something similar (refluffing xbows) for a campaign I am working on, but I did make some slight changes. I left them load-minor (I noticed your gunblade is load free, for some reaon) for bolt-action weapons taht need to be reloaded after every shot.
The gunblade is load free because it is (essentially) a greatsword+hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow is load (edit) minor free. It does look a little funny, I'll admit, but I'm sticking as close to existing crossbow stats as I can.
I'm pretty sure there is a feat that can change that, anyway.
Yup, Speed Loader (PH2, 189) - "Load Minor" becomes "Load Free." But again, the hand crossbow is already "Load Free."
Guns with magazines or clips would be handled like the repeating crossbow, which can hold some number (like 5) of bullets, and become load-free until those run out, but take a more significant action to load a new mag, after that.
I'm kind of visualizing any of the "load free" options as being similar to revolvers (where we're ignoring the actual "reloading"; the 'load free' is akin to pulling back the hammer between shots). The "load minor" weapons, then, are more of the single-shot weapons (like traditional crossbows), and a "gun" version of the repeating crossbow is, as one might imagine, a repeater (which I tend to visualize as a drum-fed weapon, given the 10-bolt magazine).
I like the concept here. I might steal it for my custom FR campagin. Also, I'm tinkering with making a Final Fantasy inspired Dragoon class, and it's coming along nicely. Once it's to a playable state, I'll post it in the forums so folks can add feats they think up.
If you steal them, let me know how they go. I'm usually the DM, so player options only ever really get used if one of my players says "Hey, that's neat, I wanna try that" - which isn't nearly often enough.
And I'm a huge fan of the Dragoon. Though I really favor the "multiclass-only" style options, just in general. I think I've kind of adopted them as something I really hope to see more of in this edition, and as something I would love to see made essential to the next edition.
Those are really nice, I especially like the gunblade multiclass chain. It is much better than what I came up with.
Having not seen yours, I'll have to take your word on it.
But thank you. The gunblade itself, and the MC-only option for it were both kind of "Why the hell not?" moments originally, but now that they're done... it really makes me want to play a gunblade-specialist Fighter.I think over the holidays I'm going to put together a semi-seafaring pirate-esque setting, with strong FF influences. Mostly for fun, but if it turns out to be something I like, I might just run with it.
Gunblade Training [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the crossbow sword. When you make a ranged attack with the secondary end of the weapon, you do not provoke opportunity attacks. In addition, when you score a critical hit with the heavy blade end of the weapon, you can make a ranged basic attack against the same target with the secondary end of the weapon as a free action.
Do you get Dex mod added to the secondary attack as well?
Do you get Dex mod added to the secondary attack as well?
Yes. Full normal ranged basic attack.
Re: Heavy Blade for Rogues. I didn't know about that one. Hm. Which issue is it in? I'll have to have the resident DDI-subscribing-player let me take a look at it.
Versatile Duelist (source: Dragon 381) is the feat being referred to above, for one-handed heavy blades and sneak attacks, also grants proficiency with them
Those are really nice, I especially like the gunblade multiclass chain. It is much better than what I came up with.
I have seen yours - which I really liked; You recommended yours to me not long ago
Damn wish I woulda seen this before, I could've added it to my campaign
