Ever had a really cool idea for a race, but had no idea how to build it? Whether you are new to race creation or veteran race creator from previous versions, it's good to know some of the conventions the 4e designers used when creating races.
What I present here are general guidelines for specking out balanced races in 4e, following the patterns used by official races drawn primarily from the PH1 and PH2.
Table of Contents
Racial Stat Block Template
This is what your basic 4e stat-block should look like:
Ability Score: +2 stat, +2 different stat
Size: Medium or Small
Speed: 5-7
Vision: Normal or Low-light
Languages: Common, 0-2 other languages
Skill Bonuses: +2 one skill, +2 different skill
Defense Bonus: If this races stat bonuses apply to the same defense, grant the race +1 to a different defense. Else, don't grant a defense bonus.
Major Ability One: A mechanically significant ability
Major Ability Two: A mechanically significant ability
0-2 Minor Abilities: Abilities with little or no mechanical impact.
Racial Power: A racial encounter or at-will power
Encounter Power -or- At-Will Power
Flavor goes here.
Encounter or At-Will ♦ Keywords
Action Range
Targets: Targets go here.
Attack/Effect: Go here.
Deconstructing the Template
Now that's you've seen the template, let's discuss some of the key mechanical points.
Ability Scores and Bonus Defense
Each race should get a +2 bonus to two different ability scores. If the ability scores of your race apply to the same Non-AC Defense (or NaD for short, which includes Fort, Reflex, and Will), you should also give your race a +1 bonus to an additional, NaD. This defense bonus does not count against the other abilities you grant you race.
Note that, aside from compensating for like-defense ability scores, you should generally avoid granting your races unconditional bonuses to defenses. Defense bonuses are highly coveted in 4e, and almost no racial abilities or racial feats grant an unconditional, always-on bonus to a defense. This is a different treat than what 3e veterans may be used to, where AC bonuses from size and natural armor were very common. Many 4e racial abilities, however, do grant conditional bonuses to defenses, with Halflings and Devas being a prime example of this treatment.
The exceptions to this rule are Humans, who get a +1 to all NaDs. Note, however, that Humans are built and balanced a bit differently than most races. Since Humans only get an ability bonus to one score, they are effectively down several bonuses (to skills, class powers, ect) compared to other races, and are therefore compensated in other ways, this being one of them. Also in favor of the Human's defense bonus is the fact that NaDs don't come into play as often as AC.
Size
A PC race shouldn't be no bigger than Medium and no smaller than Small.
Small size deserves special attention, especially for homebrewers migrating from 3e. In 3e, Small size restricted weapon damage and while granting bonuses to attack rolls, AC, and hide checks. Small size in 4e confers no inherent bonuses but has kept the weapon damage reduction. That said, Small sized races in 4e are not without compensation.
A common consensus is that the bonuses of being small have become part of individual race's writeup and racial feats rather than being inherent to the size category itself. The Halfling's Second Chance power, Nimble Reaction racial ability, and Lost in the Crowd racial feat are examples of small-themed racial perks.
Another common consensus is that the abilities of small sized races are slightly more potent than those of their larger kin. To what, if any extent, this disparity of power exists and how well this works as a balancing factor against the negatives of small size is still hotly a debated topic, but that does seem to be the trend.
Therefore, if you are building a small size and want to emphasize their size, give them racial abilities and feats that emphasize the theme of being small.
Speed and Movement Forms
The standard speed for a PC race is 6 squares. Speedy races like elves can have a speed up to 7, while slower races like Dwarves and gnomes can have a speed as low as 5. No printed races, to date, have had base speeds higher or lower than these values.
Vision
Races typically have normal or low-light vision. If your race is nocturnal, dwells in poorly lit environments, or simply has extra sharp vision, consider low-light vision over normal.
Try to avoid granting your race darkvision without good reason. Darkvision, in the hands of a capable player, can be very powerful when used against foes without it; And, AFAIK, only one official race, the Drow, has been given darkvision so far. Also, a reminder to race homebrewers who have migrated from 3e, darkvision, by default, has no distance limit and is therefore even more powerful than it was before. Even creatures that once had darkvision in 3e, such as Dwarves, Tieflings, and PC-stat'ed kobolds (but not their monster stat'ed version strangely enough), now just have low-light vision at beat.
Languages
All PC races speak Common. Many, but not all, speak one additional language; typically either a language related to their racial identity or their choice of one other. Very few speak three languages.
Compared to previous editions, languages in 4e are purposely limited to a few (DMG;171). While language is never a big adventuring concern unless the DM wants it to be, fewer languages mean that the languages the party does have access to are more likely to be useful whenever the situation arises. Therefore, consider using an appropriate, pre-existing language first before inventing a new racial language. Here's a few examples:
Nature-philes, fey, and forest people, like Eladrin, Elves, and Gnomes, tend to speak Elven. Mountain people, like Dwarves and Goliaths, speak Dwarvin. Big folk like Goliaths (again), Half-orcs, and Orcs tend to speak Giant. Dragons and scaly peoples like Dragonborn and Kobolds speak Draconic. And so on.
Other thing to avoid is giving your race Supernal or Abysssal. PCs are, by default, restrict from starting with these languages.
Skill Bonuses
All races get a +2 bonus to two different skills.
Major Abilities and Racial Feats
Major abilities are those racial abilities with definite mechanical benefit. What is a "definite mechanical advantage" you ask? Typically, anything that affects your character's numbers often, semi-often, or are significantly beneficial whenever they do apply. Major abilities include abilities such as the dragonborn's Dragonborn Fury, the Halfling's Bold, The Tiefling's resistance to fire, and the Eladrin's saving throw bonuses against charm effects.
While a race's major abilities should be indicative of the race, but at the same time they should be general enough that they are useful regardless of class or build. For example, an ability that apply to only melee attacks is completely useless for ranged or implement users, which means non-melee focused memeber of that race is missing out on a major portion of his race's abilities. If you have such niche racial abilities in mind, consider converting them into racial feats instead.
Your race should have no more or less than two of these. If you have more than two ideas for major abilities, choose the two you feel most iconic to your race's identity to become racial abilities. The rest are excellent candidates for racial feats.
Minor Abilities
Minor abilities are racial abilities whose mechanical significance are extremely limited, niche, highly situational, or have no effective mechanical significance at all. They often serve as both a mechanical and flavor anchor for additional abilities such as racial feats, race-specific items, racial paragon paths, and the like.
The Eladrin's racial weapon longsword proficiency is an excellent example of this. While proficiency is indicative of the race's flavorful love of swordplay, it's not a very significant ability mechanically. Since most characters who would want to use a longsword will likely be members of a class proficient the the weapon anyway, the ability as is will likely go to waste for most characters. However, the Eladrin's racial proficiency serve as a tie-in for several related mechanics, including Eladrin Soldier feat, the pact swords (AV), and the Wizard of Spiral Tower paragon path (which, besides having a very Eladrin-friendly flavor, the entry prerequisites seem to have been written with Eladrin wizards in mind).
Racial Power
A race's racial power is one of the most significant abilities for establishing that race's identity, in both mechanics and flavor. It should either be universally useful to all members of the race, such as the halfling's Second Chance or the human's bonus at-will, or it should be useful to a broad range of classes that the race is most suited for.
The dragonborn, for example, greatly favor front-line combatant classes, and the stats used to attack with their Dragonbreath racial (str, con, dex), are significant to almost all close-combat oriented class builds. But, while the former evidence seems to point to Dragonbreath being a melee oriented racial ability, consider that every class in the PH has at least one build that uses one of those stats as a primary or secondary (including the wizard thanks to the staff build).
As a general rule, racial powers should take no more than a minor action to use. There is a reason for this. Being a minor action allows the race to use their cool and distinctive racial powers while still being able to perform their class functions.
Non-implement/Non-weapon Attack (NINWA; I don't think that acronym's been coin yet) powers, such as the dragonborn's Dragonbreath, have special guidelines to consider. First, the damage of such powers should scale per tier. Most offensive racial powers of this type scale at about 1d6 points of damage per tier.
In addition, you should grant such powers a +2 bonus to hit per tier (+2 at heroic, +4 at paragon, +6 at epic). The reason for this is that these powers don't have an weapon or implement to provide enhancement bonuses to attack.
Finally, and less obvious to novice race designers, racial NINWAs that target AC should have an additional +2 bonus to attack on top of the standard (+4 at heroic, +6 at paragon, +8 at epic). The reason for this is due to how attacks and defenses are balanced against each other. A monster's AC is typically about 2 points higher than their NADs. This is balanced about by weapons granting their user a +2, or so, bonus to attack. So, on average, weapon users have about the same odds of landing a hit than implement users. So if you have your racial non-weapon power target AC, you need to "build-in" the proficiency bonus.
Things to Avoid
4e Doesn't Do Racial Penalties. Period.
Exactly what it says on the tin. 4e races never get minuses to anything. Any ability a race has should, in some way, add to rather than take away it. When creating a race, resist the urge to give it racial penalties for any reason (but especially the reason listed below).
The Closest thing any race gets to a racial penalty is the small size, but see the section "Sizes larger than Large and smaller than Small" below for more details on this subject.
Overly Compensating Racial Penalties
While I already said that 4e doesn't do racial penalties, this sub-topic, I feel, deserves extra attention.
If you do succumb to the allure of giving your race a racial penalty, exercise discretion when attempting to grant a penalty to compensate for an extra-powerful racial ability. All to often, attempts at balancing out an extra powerful ability with an racial penalty results one of the following:
- The penalty itself does too little to balance the race, and the race remains overpowered.
- The penalty itself does too much to balance the race, and the race becomes underpowered.
- SThe penalty does not address the reason that the benefit is overpowered, thus making the race both overpowered and underpowered at the same time, swinging wildly between the extremes depending on the situation.
Attempts to balance flight with Tiny size and related penalties to create a Victorian fairy-race are a common culprit of number three among homebrewers, and therefore are a good example of this error. Tiny, flying, races with heavy penalties are very polar. They'll either decimate encounters at a distance with spells and arrows, or they'll become a flying airline peanuts in target-print bags for flying creatures and ranged foes.
When faced with a situation where it seems like a good idea to give your race a penalty to compensate for a strong ability, it is almost always a better idea to reign in or discard the offending ability instead.
Sizes larger than Medium and smaller than Small
4e's combat mechanics and assumptions don't support larger or smaller creatures very well. Besides the fact that the weapon size rules don't take Tiny and smaller creatures into account, such creatures are also considerably nerfed in melee combat since they have no reach and must incur OA's to enter a creature's square. Conversely, Large and larger creatures are significantly more powerful in combat than other races. Their larger weapons add significantly more damage to weapon based powers, and the reach provided by large size is extremely potent in 4e's combat environment which is heavily focused on short-ranged, close-quarters skirmishes.
If you really feel that your race needs to be an unusual size, remember that sizes in 4e don't have hard boundaries and are just abstractions anyway. Your race can be very large with being Large sized, or very tiny without actually being Tiny sized. If you want size to have a mechanical presence, take a cue from Halflings and Goliaiths and give your race size-related abilities and feats instead.
Odd Ability Score Bonuses
It's no coincidence that ability score bonuses are always an even +2 and never an odd +1 or +3. The first reason is that even ability scores affect all members of a race in the same way. A +2 ability score bonus always grants a +1 modifier. Odd bonuses only provide like bonuses half the time.
For example, say you have a race that grants a +1 to str. A member of that race with a base score of 11 strength will, after racials, have 12 strength, which increases his strength modifier by one. A second member of that race with a base score of 10 will, after racials, have an score of 11, barely any mechanical change to show for it aside from increase carrying capacity.
The second reason, more specific to this edition, is that the math of 4e is fairly tight. This is especially true compared to 3e where racial score varied greatly due magic items, tomes of permanent bonuses, level adjustment, templates, and the like. Point buy, feat prerequisites, and the like are carefully calculated against the assumptions such as races getting no more than +2 to a stat.
Flight
Flight is one of the things 4e, with its emphasis on short-ranged skirmishes, does not handle very well. Very, very few things in the game grant flight in any form, and fewer still grant at-will flight. What few flight enablers are in the game typically do appear any earlier than mid paragon.
Flight can be very powerful in the hands of a PC. PCs that can fly can ignore ground-based traps and trivialize combat with melee ranged monsters who are left with few, if any, ways of fighting back. This makes it harder for the DM to plan level-appropriate encounters.
As a general rule, PCs races should not start with at-will flight of any type, including overland flight. At most, racial flight should either be granted in very limited duration, most likely in the form of a short duration encounter power, or barring that, a form of flight with a max altitude that does not actually take them out of melee reach.
However, there is precedence for flight at-will flight being available at higher levels. The Scion of Arkhosia path (PH2), the Favored Soul (DP), and the Flying Carpet (PH), all grant at-will flight by 16th level (in the case of the carpet, lvl 16 is the earliest you could find the item in treasure parcels). The former grants a fast at-will overland flight and per encounter flight power, while the latter two grant combat-capable flight. It seems that, for now at least, level 16 is the bench mark for granting at-will flight capabilities.
If you want to grant your race more flight earlier than that, you are either going to have to get very creative in giving the flight limitation, or accept that the race will have a very powerful and potentially very unbalancing ability. But see the "Final Word" section below.
Oversized
In short, it is flat-out overpowered.
Oversized in an ability that allows a character to wield weapons as if he were one size larger. Several of the monster npc racial stats in the monster manual, namely the Bugbear and the Minotaur, have this ability.
Initially, Oversized seems to be appropriate ability. Oversized generally increases your weapon die size by one step, which is a +1 damage on average and a max of +2. However, the problem shows itself when using powers with multiple [W]s. What's 1-2 additional base weapon damage can eventually escalate to 5-10 damage or more at higher levels when encounter and daily powers are used. This is a far greater damage boost than what any racial ability was intended to grant.
WotC has recognized that Oversized too powerful to be PC racial material, which is why the official Minotaur writeup doesn't have it any more, why the Goliath who had the equivalent ability in 3e never got it in this edition, and why it almost definitely will not appear in any official racial material in the future.
Extra Powerful Conditions
There are several status conditions that are, in general, inappropriate for racial abilities because they are just that good. These include Daze, Dominated, Helpless, Petrified, Stunned, Unconscious, and Weaken. Note that most of these conditions render the foe completely unable to act at all.
In terms of secondary effects, racial powers should generally be no more potent than 1st level class encounter powers. This bars all of the previously mentioned conditions. If you do decide to make imparting these conditions available to your race, carefully consider their effects on the balance of the race and consider making them paragon or epic-tier upgrades of your race's power.
The ____ Folk
While this article has primarily dealt with mechanical do's and don'ts, there is one racial point I feel I should not neglect to comment on. And that's naming your race.
Say you've read this article, followed it, and created a totally awesome, that had both interesting flavor and sound mechanics. What's the first thing people are going to see when you post your race? The name. The name of the race is going to set the tone for the mechanics and flavor to follow. Therefore, you should take some time in coming up with a interesting name for your race.
Therefore, try to come up with something other than the ____ Folk. That might be the shorthand of what your race might be known as in-game, but as the official name of your race it often, though not always, sounds like a placeholder at best.
That's not to say that the ____ Folk is a bad name for a race. It could actually be a very good name. Many beloved official races follow this and similar naming cliches. However, the ____ Folk is a cliche naming pattern none the less. And like any cliche, while neither inherently bad or good, it is very common and familiar.
Such naming cliches are one of the basic tools that every race homebrewer, from beginner to expert, has in their arsenal. If you thought of naming your race the ____ Folk, very likely there is a race, or several races, that already have that name or similar ones. Therefore, if used without careful attention to aesthetics, this naming cliche can make your race, an otherwise different and unique creation, sound very common and familiar as well. The last thing you want is for a criticizer to look at your race and think "not another cat race."
Other common racial name cliches include the ____men, ____kin, ____iods, ____born, ____lings, and Half-____s, where "____" is also often a classical elemental, well known mythological creature, or the species name or genus of an animal, Latin or otherwise.
Final Word
Remember that the guidelines given here assumes that you are attempting to make a race that's balanced against standard PC races in standard environments. This is important if you are planning on posting your creation to share with the whole gaming community.
However, if you are designing the race primarily for your game, you have a lot more legroom with work with. Your game may not be a standard game, and therefore things that may be over or underpowered in a "typical" campaign may work just fine in your own campaign under your individual campaign style and houserules.
But more importantly than that, these are guidelines and not rules. Creating a D&D race is equal parts math and art, and it's okay to break conventions and do something radical or different than normal.
The bottom line is that your race you create makes your campaign more fun. If it does, then you are doing it right.
But please, if you bring a race to the boards for PEACH'ing and you've intentionally made it unbalanced against normal standards to fit better in your own campaign, please, please, say so upfront along with any relevant considerations. It just saves both you, and the kind people who take the time to PEACH your creation time and energy.
This is the result of an overly long reply that I finally decided to expend into a full race creation guide. Criticism is always appreciated.
Additional commentary and updates:
Removed PDF link. I'm migrating to a new host. The pdf will be back soon.
Added a Table of Contents. Note: I attempted to hypertext the ToC, but it appears the forums strip about anchor tag name attributes. I'll experiment with it more later.
TODO:
Evaluating your Creation
Using Class-Race Synergy to build your race
LOL, just kidding. But, you seem to have a good head for balance and such; do you think you could check out my OA Conversion? Like I said above, I'm fairly certain I've Over/Under-Powerd some of the races, but, since I haven't gotten any feedback, I'm not sure where to go.
But, you seem to have a good head for balance and such; do you think you could check out my OA Conversion? Like I said above, I'm fairly certain I've Over/Under-Powerd some of the races, but, since I haven't gotten any feedback, I'm not sure where to go.
I'll take a look, but after a quick glance I already see two big problems. And not to sound snooty, but they have nothing to do with the races.
First, your post is huge. You effectively have several PH's worth of races in there. That's a hella' intimidating for any reviewer. Though it would have taken a while, you probably would have got more review if you posted only a few races at a time.
Second, your formatting is a messy, which makes it hard to read. For example, you have racial powers in the middle of the stat block. Personally speaking, I find a race writeup much easier to read, and therefore easier to critique, if it follows PH formatting, including bolding each section title and alphabetizing the major and minor abilities, and including powers at the end. It's a lot more work on the writer's part, but I think the extra readability worth it. Presentation is everything.
I'll take a look, but after a quick glance I already see two big problems. And not to sound snooty, but they have nothing to do with the races.
First, your post is huge. You effectively have several PH's worth of races in there. That's a hella' intimidating for any reviewer. Though it would have taken a while, you probably would have got more review if you posted only a few races at a time.
Second, your formatting is a messy, which makes it hard to read. For example, you have racial powers in the middle of the stat block. Personally speaking, I find a race writeup much easier to read, and therefore easier to critique, if it follows PH formatting, including bolding each section title and alphabetizing the major and minor abilities, and including powers at the end. It's a lot more work on the writer's part, but I think the extra readability worth it. Presentation is everything.
Thanks for the advice; I'll change that soon. And trust me, you didn't sound snooty, I asked for feedback, you gave it, simple as that.
Also, I agree with PK; somebody sticky this!
I'd add a chapter on comparing the final race to existing races. If it is strictly better than one exisiting race, or strictly worse, you need to rethink it.
Also, you can add the following to a racial writeup:
- feats
- paragon paths
- race-specific powers
- a deity worshipped by that race, with Channel Divinity feat
- race-specific items
There's an odd spacing gap in the "Speed" section.
I think an extra major ability, or two minor abilities, would be in order in the absence of a racial power. How would you consider the Dwarf?
Section name should be "Sizes larger than Medium and smaller than Small".
I would add:
* Please, please keep your intended character classes in mind when selecting attribute bonuses, skill bonuses, and class features. I know that it sucks to have races "pigeon-holed" into certain builds, but not everyone can be a Human, and it sucks even more to have a nicely optimized character with one ability that's useless 90% of the time.
As an example, let's take the Dragonborn.
They have +2 STR, +2 CHA, and a racial ability that keys off STR, CON, or DEX. The Dragonborn's favored classes are the Thaneborn Barbarian, the Balanced Paladin, the Dragon Sorcerer, and the Inspiring Warlord, all of which use both ability scores (and yes, they can do well in other classes like Fighter, though the CHA is wasted to a degree).
One of the Dragonborn's skill bonuses is in Intimidate. It synergizes nicely with a stat bump, can see use in combat and skill challenges alike, and is on all its favored classes' skill lists. In effect, it's a 10% bonus that you will be quite happy to take advantage of, especially if no other party member is trained in that skill.
On the other hand, the Dragonborn's other bonus is in History, an INT-based skill. Let's pretend for a moment that History is worth training in, as much as any monster knowledge skill. Although the Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlord all have History on their skill lists, none of these particular builds wants to be bumping INT over DEX, and they have better skills to train in, like Athletics and Diplomacy. Odds are that someone in the party will have better INT than you, even if no one trains History. When are you going to use that 10% bonus now?
More of the first, less of the second, kthx.
One of the Dragonborn's skill bonuses is in Intimidate. It synergizes nicely with a stat bump, can see use in combat and skill challenges alike, and is on all its favored classes' skill lists. In effect, it's a 10% bonus that you will be quite happy to take advantage of, especially if no other party member is trained in that skill.
On the other hand, the Dragonborn's other bonus is in History, an INT-based skill. Let's pretend for a moment that History is worth training in, as much as any monster knowledge skill. Although the Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlord all have History on their skill lists, none of these particular builds wants to be bumping INT over DEX, and they have better skills to train in, like Athletics and Diplomacy. Odds are that someone in the party will have better INT than you, even if no one trains History. When are you going to use that 10% bonus now?
More of the first, less of the second, kthx.
I'd add a chapter on comparing the final race to existing races. If it is strictly better than one exisiting race, or strictly worse, you need to rethink it.
You're right. I'll be sure to add that, probably making up the bulk of a section devoted to evaluating your race's mechanics.
- feats
- paragon paths
- race-specific powers
- a deity worshipped by that race, with Channel Divinity feat
- race-specific items
I only have a handful of books (core rules + PHII + free issues of Dragon), so I don't think I could do all of these. Feats, Paragon Paths, and Deities I'm sure I could give a mention to, but I don't have many examples of race-specific powers or items. I'll still give it a shot though.
There's an odd spacing gap in the "Speed" section.
...
Section name should be "Sizes larger than Medium and smaller than Small".
Fixed and fixed.
I think an extra major ability, or two minor abilities, would be in order in the absence of a racial power. How would you consider the Dwarf?
Well, I haven't yet seen an official race with an extra major ability besides humans, but they're a bit unusual as far as races go.
However, I do agree that the absence of a racial power could be made up with an extra major ability. Extra minor abilities, however, wouldn't cut it as their by definition lacking in mechanical presence. Extra one would probably do no more than clutter the racial block with superfluous details.
As for the Dwarf, I rate their abilities as such:
Major Abilities: Cast Iron Stomach, Stand Your Ground
Minor Abilities: Dwarven Weapon Proficiency, Encumbered Speed
Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
I would have Encumbered Speed as a major ability if it wasn't for the fact that Dwarves have a base speed of 5. Since it's iconic that Dwarves prefer classes that use Axes, and Hammers (and most of all AXES), Encumbered Speed at best puts them on a even level with other heavy armor users as far as speed goes. For non-heavy armored Dwarves, the ability might as well not exist.
And Dwarven Resilence is a stealth'ed in racial power. While it is technically not an racial encounter power (as it lacks the neat little color-coded chart thingy), it effectively is. Second Wind is already per encounter, but shifting down the action tax from standard to minor gives it a whole new life. Dwarves are going to be able to use Second Wind much more often and to greater effect than most other races because it doesn't slow them down.
Or, another way to look at Dwarven Resilience is as an encounter power that triggers when you use Second Wind with the effect of giving you an extra standard and move action; and that Standard action can be used with a power that's probably as or more effective than most other races' racial powers. Not too shabby overall.
Please, please keep your intended character classes in mind when selecting attribute bonuses, skill bonuses, and class features. I know that it sucks to have races "pigeon-holed" into certain builds, but not everyone can be a Human, and it sucks even more to have a nicely optimized character with one ability that's useless 90% of the time.
...
On the other hand, the Dragonborn's other bonus is in History, an INT-based skill. Let's pretend for a moment that History is worth training in, as much as any monster knowledge skill. Although the Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlord all have History on their skill lists, none of these particular builds wants to be bumping INT over DEX, and they have better skills to train in, like Athletics and Diplomacy. Odds are that someone in the party will have better INT than you, even if no one trains History. When are you going to use that 10% bonus now?
More of the first, less of the second, kthx.
I do a agree with the basic sentiment. A race's mechanics should follow a similar trend. However, I'm going to have to disagree with the extent and with this particular example. Not everything in your racial stat block needs to geared toward optimization of the race's preferred classes. The Dragonborn's bonus to History ties is very nicely with their fluff, as most "share a great pride in their race's past and present accomplishments" and since a common characteristic of Dragonborn is being "rooted in ancient history".
On the contrary, a races' skill section is one of the best places to add a bit of flavor to the race's mechanics. Racial skill bonuses indicate what things the entire race either values or has an natural affinity for. While at the same time, a +2 bonus or lack their off shouldn't be a game breaker in most builds.
There is a fine balance, and I should devote a section to that as well.
Also, Dragonborn make good Warlocks and (going by key abilities since I don't have the FRPG) Swordmages, both of whom require decent to high int and have History as class skills.
* Don't make racial feats, abilities, or PPs that are identical to, strictly worse than, or strictly better than core material. Not only are they not interesting, you don't want another "Expertise iz t3h brokenz!" fiasco.
* If your racial feats scale, make 'em scale. Don't make a strictly better feat at Paragon tier and treat it as a different one, because every PC will just retrain into it anyway.
These are both very good points. I'll be sure to include a section on racial feats.
Not everything in your racial stat block needs to geared toward optimization of the race's preferred classes. [...] On the contrary, a races' skill section is one of the best places to add a bit of flavor to the race's mechanics.
Fair 'nuff.
Would you consider a race's skill section closer to major or minor abilities in importance? (ex. the Deva Invoker's History and Religion, vs. the Genasi Warlord's Endurance and Nature)
Keep this alive!
However, more narrowly focused powers do exist. The half-orc and shifter both have powers that are decidedly melee.
What?
The Half-Orc and Shifter both have powers that are useful to everybody no matter what class they are. Are we looking at the same races here? What about their racial powers are "decidedly" melee-oriented?
Half-orc gets to add extra damage regardless of melee or ranged, weapon or implement. The shifter gets a bonus to speed and reflex defense equally useful to everybody or a bonus to damage and regeneration useful to everybody. There's nothing "decidedly melee" about either of these.
No, in fact, I highly recommend adding to the list that racial powers and indeed all racial features should be useful to a character regardless of class or role. There are a couple of places where this rule is broken (such as the half-orc's heedless charge), but those are cases of bad design on the part of the developers themselves and one bad design decision does not justify another.
For instance, racial feature dealing with charging are bad because ranged characters will never benefit from it. Also, racial features depending on, say, melee basic attacks or really any basic attack at all are bad because they pigeon-hole characters into selecting weapon-using classes or else have to pick very specific powers in order to make the feature remotely useful.
Finally, and less obvious to novice race designers, racial NINWAs should target NADs instead of AC. The reason for this is the same reason implement powers target NADs. Like implement powers, NWNI power are effectively down about 2 points of attack bonus due to lacking the proficiency bonus weapons have, which is balanced out by NADs generally being about 2 points lower than AC.
Actually, I'll disagree with this. There's absolutely no problem with a racial attack power targeting AC so long as proper adjustments are made. The attack would likely gain +4 at 1st level, +6 at 11th, and +8 at 21st in order to simply mimic both weapon enchantments and proficiency bonus.
Despite being an absolutely horrifically designed racial power otherwise, the Minotaur's Goring Charge is a good example of this.
For everything else? Preach on.
Would you consider a race's skill section closer to major or minor abilities in importance? (ex. the Deva Invoker's History and Religion, vs. the Genasi Warlord's Endurance and Nature)
Strictly, I would say neither. The +2 to two skills is something that almost all races receive, and those that don't get a similar skill-related bonus (such as the human's Bonus Skill). Since it's pretty much mandatory for a race to get these skill bonuses, I don't count them as either major or minor abilities.
That said, if I was to evaluate racial skill bonuses as either a major or minor ability, in most cases count it as a major ability. A race's skill bonuses tend to be closely related enough to the race's preferred classes that the bonuses would come in handy fairly often. Though preferably, I would put the skill bonuses in a category in between major and minor since an atypical class choice where either the class's key abilities or trained skills don't align with the skill bonus can greatly lower the chance that said skill bonuses will see much use.
The Half-Orc and Shifter both have powers that are useful to everybody no matter what class they are. Are we looking at the same races here? What about their racial powers are "decidedly" melee-oriented?
Half-orc gets to add extra damage regardless of melee or ranged, weapon or implement. The shifter gets a bonus to speed and reflex defense equally useful to everybody or a bonus to damage and regeneration useful to everybody. There's nothing "decidedly melee" about either of these.
I really dropped the ball here. Somehow I got it in my head that the half-orc's power only worked on a charged, and I don't know where I was going with the shifters. It must have been really late when I wrote that or something. Regardless, these grievous errors will be fixed.
I'll disagree with this. There's absolutely no problem with a racial attack power targeting AC so long as proper adjustments are made. The attack would likely gain +4 at 1st level, +6 at 11th, and +8 at 21st in order to simply mimic both weapon enchantments and proficiency bonus.
Despite being an absolutely horrifically designed racial power otherwise, the Minotaur's Goring Charge is a good example of this.
Point taken.
Also, wings should impose a penalty to swim checks and such, isn't it?
So, in short:
Fly as an encounter racial move power (like Fey Step). The creature gets -2 to all defences and attacks until it lands (it lands in its next turn). Paragon feats eliminate this penalty (and maybe even increase distance). Epic feats can give overland flight. To fly, good air circulation is needed (this is, only in open areas).
How about that? Would that be balanced?
Also, wings should impose a penalty to swim checks and such, isn't it?
No.
4e Doesn't Do Racial Penalties. Period.
But what about the other mechanics?
I really don't know if this' the place to ask, but, I have a question regarding Flight for a PC race.
This is an excellent place to ask.
So, what if I make it an encounter power (much like Fey Step, but instead of teleport is a flight), and give the player a -2 to all defenses and attacks (well, it's hard to move well while flying). And also a paragon tier feat that eliminates this penalty and increase the use of flight. Would that be unbalanced?
Actually, 4e already has a concept like this codified in the rules. Clumsy flight (DMG pg48) actually imposes harsher conditions (-4 to attack and defenses). However, this still, by itself, is not enough to balanced flight against standard PC races in typical campaigns because the same problem are still present. Flying PC can trivialize grounded opponents and obstacles, which make up a large amount of the challenges tossed a PCs for much of the game. A -4 to attack and defenses is meaningless if you are still completely safe from harm and free to pelt foes with nigh-limitless ranged attacks.
Well, if we take into account that a somewhat-strong current of wind is needed to support heavy airborne creatures, it can be ruled that a creature can't fly inside a dungeon. Maybe fall slower (like feather fall), but not fly inside a dungeon (unless of course, it's a wind-themed dungeon, or something like that )
Outside-only flight could work, but only if the majority of your adventurer encounters happen indoors. And if that is the case, we can no longer assume that your race is balanced for a "typical" campaign, where a good deal of combat can occur while traveling from place to place.
As for the feather-fall like effect, that easily could make for a balanced ability by itself. But then, we are technically no longer talking about flight.
There's also another problem with this idea. It requires the DM to keep careful track of climate and the weather to determine whether or not his players can actually fly that day, or even at all depending on the region. Just to start, exactly how much wind is a "somewhat-strong current," and how often can or should such weather occur. And if the DM's players are particular observant and able to identify inconsistencies with the weather he's using, that could be an immersion breaker for the group.
Also, wings should impose a penalty to swim checks and such, isn't it?
Definitely not, as that would unfairly penalized winged races with an arbitrary restriction in a attempt to enforce "realism" where it only tentatively exists anyway. Considering all the stuff adventurers tend to carry that would add to water resistance (armor, loot, bed-rolls, shields, 11ft polls, impossibly huge swords...) its a wonder why many of them don't sink like rocks. And, in a fantasy setting, it could be just as easy to assume the opposite and say that wings could aid swim checks (penguins and black dragons for example).
Fly as an encounter racial move power (like Fey Step). The creature gets -2 to all defences and attacks until it lands (it lands in its next turn). Paragon feats eliminate this penalty (and maybe even increase distance). Epic feats can give overland flight. To fly, good air circulation is needed (this is, only in open areas).
How about that? Would that be balanced?
To be honest, I'm not sure as it is a question I've been debated with myself for a while, and I would love an answer as well. 1-round racial encounter flight is an easy thing to balanced since it matches up with existing racial powers (Fey Step, as you mentioned), and wouldn't even warrant a clumsy flight-like unless you made it strictly better than Fey Step in some regard. And extended flight distance as a paragon feat is a good upgrade.
However, granting feat-based overland flight (I assume you mean at-will) is an different issue. As stated, flight is highly valued in 4e. That said, precedence for at-will overland flight does exist, but nothing as clear cut as a feat chain. Disregarding mounts for the moment (whose availability is entirely up to the DM), there are only two methods of granting something similiar to at-will overland flight.
The Scion of Arkhosia (PH2) gains at-will overland flight by mid-paragon, but it is (at present) a one-of-a-kind racial paragon path, which besides requiring significant invest (your paragon path choice), flight is one of the crowning abilities of the path. And to give away that ability for a mere feat, even at epic, takes something away from that path.
The other method I'm familiar with is the Carpet of Flying straight out of the PH. It effectively grants the user Clumsy Flight 6 with a 10sq max altitude (which puts the player in range of most range attacks made by ground-based foes). As a 20th level item, it is available by mid-paragon as treasure parcel loot, but players won't gain the ability to grant the themselves the item via Enchant Item effectively until epic.
In short, I think it is possible that epic-level feat based overland flight could be balanced if it's balanced against flight enablers like these. Unfortunately, I haven't had much chance to play the game, let alone at high levels, so I don't know how well my opinion would hold in actual play.
Though the main problem I have with this approach is that epic is such a long time to wait for a race's signature ability.
Now, I'm going to be more concrete with my flying race (following your guidelines, I would only add the important features regarding the wings issue):
Major ability one: This creature ignores the first 20 feets of a fall when falling. (Alternatively: This creature only takes half damage from falling)
Major ability two: This creature can use the racial power "Flight" once per encounter.
Ok, first of all, thanks for your kind and complete answer.
Now, I'm going to be more concrete with my flying race (following your guidelines, I would only add the important features regarding the wings issue):
Major ability one: his creature ignores the first20 feets4 squares of a fall when falling. (Alternatively: This creature only takes half damage from falling)
Either of those would be fine. My only criticism is that you should measure in squares and not feet, as 1) it's standard convention, 2) it's easier and faster to read, and 3) it makes it easier on our metric using friends.
Major ability two: This creature can use the racial power "Flight" once per encounter.
And, I used feet because the PHB uses feet when talking about falling damage.
Thanks for the feedback. You don't mind I keep asking, right?
"too powerful as a major ability, but just fine as a racial encounter power". Didn't I do that? Make it as a racial encounter power?
You listed your flight as the second major ability:
Major ability two: This creature can use the racial power "Flight" once per encounter.
A race's racial power is not one of their major abilities, as racial powers belong to a separate category of consideration. A race gets two
So your race actually has room for one more major ability.
And, I used feet because the PHB uses feet when talking about falling damage.
Good point. Complaint withdrawn.
You don't mind I keep asking, right?
Of course not. I'm quite enjoying this exchange.
And well done - good guide.
A race's racial power is not one of their major abilities, as racial powers belong to a separate category of consideration. A race gets two racial abilities and a racial power, and one does not count as another.
Oh, I was not aware of that. Thanks.
Btw, one of the abilities of the race I'm making is similar to the Gnome's Master Trickster. Is that a mayor ability, or a minor ability? I think that it's minor, as it's a weak at-will taken as an encounter power.
Oh, I was not aware of that. Thanks.
I minor correction to what I said earlier. I meant to say that all races two major abilities, not racial abilities. Technically, any ability a race gets is an racial ability, and that includes major abilities, minor abilities, and racial powers (or everything else depending on how broad your definition of "racial ability" is). Just thought I should clear that up.
To summarize: 2 major abilities, 1 racial power, 0-2ish minor abilities, everything else.
Sorry 'bout that.
Btw, one of the abilities of the race I'm making is similar to the Gnome's Master Trickster. Is that a mayor ability, or a minor ability? I think that it's minor, as it's a weak at-will taken as an encounter power.
I too count it as a minor ability. Ghost Sound, by itself, doesn't grant any non-conditional or significant utility or mechanical advantage. And as a encounter power, its even more so.
Again, thanks for your help, and grrrrrrrreat topic.
So now we at least know that, officially, full-on flight is appropriate paragon path material.
1) Is it balanced to give a class a +4 modifier in an ability rather than +2 in two? If it isn't, would it be if I traded one major/minor ability for that?
2) Giving a selectable +2 (like humans) is the same as giving +2 in two fixed stats?
3) What if I say "give +2 to one mental ability, give +2 to one physical ability"?
4) Talking again about Fly, which is better, overland flight or flight speed? (This is, if I want to give a race the flying ability as they level up, which one should I give first?)
5) I want to make a lycanthrope race. How would that work out? Change shape as the racial power, and the major ability to use bite/claws as natural weapons when in beast form?
Ok, thanks for the help.
I liked what you said in the sections concerning size category. My question is what would you say about the Bugbear's 'Oversized' racial? I know this isn't a PC race, and just one from the MM.
If i am understanding it correctly, it gives the player the option to take weapons that are considered large size, which would be a weapon too big for a medium or small character to wield 2handed. This could in turn allow an 'Oversized' character to wield a normal 2handed weapon in one hand couldn't it? And don't large creatures and large weapons have a base reach of 2? Doesnt this seem a little overpowered for the Bugbears?
To help illustrate:
Small player:
- can wield 1-handers
- versatile can be wielded in 2 hands only
- cannot wield 2-handed weapons
- cannot wield large size weapons
Medium player:
- can wield 1-handers
- versatile can be wielded in 1 or 2 hands
- can wield 2-handed weapons
- cannot wield large size weapons
Medium player with 'Oversized':
- can wield one handers
- can wield 2-handers in 1 or 2 hands (the 2-handed weapon becomes a 'versatile' for oversized creatures)
- can wield large size weapons
(i suspect even WotC saw that, which is why when they did the Minotaur in Dragon Magazine 369, they removed that, as it was originally part of a minotaur's racial in the MM. It is also missing in the CB)
This could in turn allow an 'Oversized' character to wield a normal 2handed weapon in one hand couldn't it?
Technically, no. Oversized just lets you use large-sized versions of a weapon. The ability does confer the ability to reduce the handiness of medium size weapons.
The PH does specifically state that Large and larger creatures can use two-handed weapons sized smaller than them as one-handed. However, the Oversized ability does not make you Large size, nor does it specifically grant the ability to use medium-sized two-handed weapons as one-handed one. Therefore, you can't.
And don't large creatures and large weapons have a base reach of 2?
Large creatures may have a reach of 1 or 2, depending on body shape (PH;pg282). Most weapon-wielding large size creatures will almost assuredly have a base reach of 2.
However, weapon size does not affect weapon reach. If there was some way to wield a Gargantuan-sized Greatsword as a medium creature, for example, your reach would still be 1 square.
Doesnt this seem a little overpowered for the Bugbears?
That's an understatement. *see below*
suspect even WotC saw that, which is why when they did the Minotaur in Dragon Magazine 369, they removed that, as it was originally part of a minotaur's racial in the MM. It is also missing in the CB
That's exactly what happened.
The thing to remember about the PC racial stats presented in the monster manual is that they were not intended for use as PC races. Their primary purpose is to provide a base for DMs to create PC-stat'ed NPC versions of those monsters. This is not only mentioned upfront in the racial traits section, but it also mentions that the racial stats provided are more in line with monsters than PCs in terms of power.
While most of the stats in the MM are serviceable PC material as is, some lie below, or in this case, above the standard PC power threshold.
WotC has deemed Oversized too powerful to be PC racial material, which is why the official Minotaur writeup doesn't have it any more, why the Goliath never got it in the first place, and why it almost definitely will not appear in any official racial material in the future.
1) Is it balanced to give a class a +4 modifier in an ability rather than +2 in two?
No, definitely not.
If it isn't, would it be if I traded one major/minor ability for that?
No, definitely not.
2) Giving a selectable +2 (like humans) is the same as giving +2 in two fixed stats?
No. Relatively speaking, A selectable +2 to any one ability score is underpowered compared to giving a fixed +2 to two ability scores. The reason that Humans pull it off is Human Defense Bonuses, their +1 bonus to all three NADs.
3) What if I say "give +2 to one mental ability, give +2 to one physical ability"?
I think the better question whether you could even think of any racial concept for which such a setup would be appropriate. Because I know I can't. And even if I could, I think that would likely be overpowered; it's just too perfect for just about everything. Thinking about it, there's probably a big reason that this isn't what Humans ended up with. :P
4) Talking again about Fly, which is better, overland flight or flight speed? (This is, if I want to give a race the flying ability as they level up, which one should I give first?)
Flight speed, because a flight speed can effectively be used in combat while overland flight cannot.
I'm really of the opinion that giving a race either is probably a really terrible idea though. I think that sort of thing should be deal with through features such as Paragon Paths and Feats...
5) I want to make a lycanthrope race. How would that work out?
Play a Shifter (PHB2 pages 16-17).
Btw, I have some other questions:
Hopefully, I'll have answers.
1) Is it balanced to give a class a +4 modifier in an ability rather than +2 in two? If it isn't, would it be if I traded one major/minor ability for that?
No, it would not. Such a high racial modifier would not only break the standard balance conventions, but also make such a race the clearly superior choice in whatever classes use that stat as a primary.
And trading away a major ability wouldn't cut it. A +4 racial mod would almost assuredly go toward the one thing that most greatly affects you success of every round of every battle: your to-hit and damage. A +4 would simply be too good.
2) Giving a selectable +2 (like humans) is the same as giving +2 in two fixed stats?
Overall, I don't think you would run into too many balance issues if your race used a floating +2 instead of a preset set of stat bonuses.
Do keep in mind that, while the lack of a second stat is not ruinous, Humans are not entirely uncompensated for its lost. This is most noticeably so with their Human Defense Ability, which is very strong as for Major ability. It not only makes up for the effectively missing NAD bonus, but also helps to compensate for the lack of the secondary stat's boost to attacks, skills and the like, and holds its own weight as a major ability as well. If you do the same, you should likewise compensate for the missing stat in a similar manner.
However, if at all possible, I do suggest not to use the floating +2 on another race, but for a reason unrelated to mechanics. The floating +2 is not only one of the most defining aspects of Humans, it is the mechanic that cements them as being the goto "adaptable race". Giving that away to another race would take away would diminish the Human shtick and take away some of their uniqueness.
3) What if I say "give +2 to one mental ability, give +2 to one physical ability"?
Like above, I don't think you'll encounter any mechanical imbalances. Even less so in this case, as you don't have to try to compensate for a missing stat bonuses. And in fact, you could switch around just about any race's stats without causing balance issues, or at most, significant ones. But this option, again, takes way from the uniqueness that humans have by make them even more adaptable than humans.
Edit: On second thought, I think I'm going to agree with Crimson on this. Two floating stats would be ideal far too often. Not only does that step on the toes of Humans, but every other race as well. That's too good. It's in "you'd be stupid not to" territory.
4) Talking again about Fly, which is better, overland flight or flight speed? (This is, if I want to give a race the flying ability as they level up, which one should I give first?)
That would depend on several factors. How fast a speed are we talking about, at what level would they be available, at what cost (both directly and indirectly), and with what associate penalties and bonuses (like Clumsy or Hover, for example).
All these things being equal, regular Flight is clearly the stronger of the two. Overland Flight only allows you a single move action on your turn, and that action must to maintain flight. Most importantly, that means you can't use combat actions and fly at the same time. Regular Flight has no such restrictions, which is why it is so coveted.
With most creatures in the MM that have both, their Overland Flight speed is faster than their normal fly speed, but that's a trend, not a rule. I believe the original intention was that either Overland Flight was intended only for creatures that don't fight in the air (going by the wording in the DMG) and/or Overland Flight would be your default fly speed to use when doing long distance traveling and forced marches since it likely would take less energy to do so (since you have time to casually glide and take advantage of air currents and the like). However, the section on overland movement, forced marches and the like is completely missing from the DMG, so yeah. But I digress.
In short, Overland Flight is out of combat flight. Regular flight is combat flight. If you are going to grant them in order, again assuming all other things (like speed) being equal, Overland Flight would be a better fit for a first step.
5) I want to make a lycanthrope race. How would that work out? Change shape as the racial power, and the major ability to use bite/claws as natural weapons when in beast form?
There are at least dozens of ways of doing a lycanthrope, and many have already attempted homebrew lycanthrope rules and races. Mostly, however, it would depend on exactly how you would want the final result to work, as well as which mythologies in particular you are drawing your inspiration from. For example, the next time I get a chance to play, I plan on playing a werewolf sorcerer that's actually, on paper, a reflavored human. His claws are actually his dagger implements, and I plan on having him stay in "hybrid form" most of the time, and I plan on developing a few polymorph-type utility and daily spells to run by the DM. That's one method.
But for creating an actual race, perhaps these ideas might help as starting places:
For shape changing, you'll probably want to take a look at the Druid's Wildshape ability and the Changling's/PC stat'ed Doppelgangers Change Shape. Some merger of the two would give you a effective creature<->hybrid<->humanoid mechanic.
Natural Weapons are tricky. How you handle them would depend on what you want the final result to be. If you simply want them to be a burst of animal fury, you could simply make them an encounter power. Alternatively, you could make them some type of racial at-will attack. But, if you want your lycans to be able to use them like regular weapons so they could be use in conjunction with class powers, the easiest thing to do, IMO, would be to simply stat them as regular weapons. Perhaps as a type of weapon in the Unarmed Group (like the ones in this shameless plug). Then, for enchantments, either allow the natural weapons themselves to be enchanted, or create some sort of implement-like device to bestow enchantments upon the natural weapons.
Alternatively, another method I've suggested in other threads dealing with animal-like races is to simply allow the player to, at character creation, choose a melee weapon his character would normally be proficient with anyway. His "natural weapons," for all intents and purposes, including feats, powers, and the like, function exactly as that chosen weapon. So if the player wanted to play a wolfen fighter, he could choose, say, Greatsword, and all of his wolf's attacks function exactly like that 2H heavy blade. And again, just like with the monk, the "natural weapon" can be affect by magic item rituals.
Either way, I wouldn't make natural weapons take up a major ability slot unless they did something significant that a regular weapon could not.
For just about anything else, you might want to take inspiration from Shifters from the PH2, as they are decedent from lycanthropes, and have the thematic racial abilities and feats to support that heritage.
Well, first I would like to clarify that I'm homebrewing a set of new races to replace the ones in the PHB for my personal campaign. That's why I needed a versatile race much like humans, but not quite the same. I was thinking in hybrids between animals and humans (like humans with animalistic features), which would give them the versatility depending in what kind of animal they are. So, a bear-human would have more Str and a cat-human would have more Dex.
Regarding the lycanthrope race, a shifter is not what I'm looking for, Crimson. I want a race that can shift from a human form to a bestial form. The idea of the Druid's wild shape + Change shape sounds good to me. How about this: the player can change between his human form, bestial form and animal form as an at-will racial power. He can assume human and animal any time, but he must be bloodied to assume bestial form. As a human and bestial, he can use weapons and such. In animal and bestial form, he can only use his claw/bite attack. The claw/bite attack is a natural weapon that has prof +3 and deals d8 damage, and has the off-hand property. In bestial form, the player gets +2 to all damage rolls.
So, would that work up?
Oh, regarding the oversized, wouldn't work a major ability that lets the player use two-handed weapons in one hand? (Like monkey grip feat in 3.5)
Btw, that page of yours is quite good.
And Fireclave that question is directed at you too. Where would you like this discussion to take place? Because I heavily disagree with a lot of the suggestions you gave him for the race that he created...
EDIT: Also:
Oh, regarding the oversized, wouldn't work a major ability that lets the player use two-handed weapons in one hand? (Like monkey grip feat in 3.5)
No, that idea is just as bad on a PC race as Oversized is.
Btw, that page of yours is quite good.
Thanks. It's still far from complete, but I'm proud of the progress I've made so far. But on to more relevant matters.
And Fireclave that question is directed at you too. Where would you like this discussion to take place? Because I heavily disagree with a lot of the suggestions you gave him for the race that he created...
At the rate this conversation is going, a separate thread would be ideal. Not only because Magus's questions are becoming more specific to his races, but also because his races should get more attention in their own topic.
No, that idea is just as bad on a PC race as Oversized is.
Agreed.
Oh, btw, another general question. Would it be balanced to change the Elf's Group Awareness for a +1 to ranged attack rolls (+2 at level 11 and +3 at 21)?
Absolutely not. That's a ridiculously good racial feature, and even if giving a +1 to ranged attack rolls was appropriate, it should never scale, because a +1 bonus to hit is exactly as useful at 30th level as it is at 1st. Bonuses to hit never need to scale, only bonuses to damage do (exception is if your racial power has an attack roll).
Unless I'm missing something, the Elf's Group Awareness ability grants non-elf allies a bonus to Perception, not attack rolls
Yes, that was the question. What if hypothetically it were to be changed to a bonus to ranged attack rolls instead of a bonus to perception checks?
Yes, that was the question. What if hypothetically it were to be changed to a bonus to ranged attack rolls instead of a bonus to perception checks?
Okay, I see now. Then, yeah, what Crim said.
But wait, I'm not saying a bonus to ranged attacks to all party members, just for the player. And without scaling it, of course. Ranged basic attack rolls, maybe?
Still no. Then you've still got a racial feature that's only useful for a very limited number of classes. A features that's ridiculously good for some classes and completely useless for other classes is generally a terrible idea, and this is not one of the ridiculously few exceptions.
But isn't that the same as the Half-orc's swift charge racial feature? I mean, a wizard won't likely charge, isn't it?
And that's why that specific racial feature is badly designed. In my games, I make that a racial feat and swap in the Anger Unleashed feat for it instead. WotC makes mistakes too. What's important is that we be able to recognize when they have made those mistakes and to learn from them instead of repeating them.
Oh if only I could give the guy who designed that Half-Orc racial feature such an earful...
:D
Hmm... And, what if I give the option to choose from one of the two? Fluffed, one would be a leader elf, and the other a marksman elf. That would make sense, isn't it?
:D
If hypothetically a +1 to hit with ranged attacks weren't overpowered anyways, then yes, that would be a reasonable solution. But a +1 to hit with ranged attacks as a racial feature is overpowered anyways, so no, it's not actually a reasonable solution.
I'm still insisting in the archer-themed elves, so here's another idea: how about if I reduce the penalty for long ranged attacks to -1 instead of -2? Still too overpowered?
Geez, what can I do to show the elves as archers (other than the weapon proficiency ability)?
My player has already seen it, but she's usually very amenable to changes, or I wouldn't trust her to see drafts.
Lizardfolk
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 6'0” - 7'2”
Average Weight: 230-280 lb.
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, draconic
Healing Scales: Your healing surge value is equal to one-quarter of your maximum hit points + your constitution modifier.
Lizardfolk Weapon Training: You are proficient with the shortspear, javelin, longspear and trident and you treat all spears as brutal 1.
Deep Lung: You can hold your breath for up to 10 minutes before requiring saving throws.
Swamp Walk: You ignore difficult terrain if it is the result of bog, mud, or shallow water.
GREENSCALE LIZARDFOLK
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Perception
Tail Slash: As a Greenscale, you have the tail slash power.
BLACKSCALE LIZARDFOLK
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Indomitable Dimwittedness: You have a +1 racial bonus to Will.
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Retaliatory Bite: As a Blackscale, you have the retaliatory bite power.
POISONSCALE LIZARDFOLK
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealthy, +2 Nature
Gut Spit: As a Poisonscale, you have the gut spit power.
---
Tail Slash
You crouch down, building energy for a great twist of your body before your tail slashes all around you.
Encounter
Minor Action Close Burst 1
Targets: All creatures in area
Attack: Dexterity +2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Strength modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d8 + Strength modifier damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d8 + Strength modifier damage at 21st level.
---
Retaliatory Bite
Your ripping teeth punish a foe for their impudence.
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt
Targets: One target
Trigger: You or an adjacent ally is attacked while yielding combat advantage.
Attack: Strength +4 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10 + Strength modifier damage and leaves the target dazed until the end of your next turn.
Increase to +6 bonus and 2d10 + Strength modifier damage at 11th level, and to +8 bonus and 3d10 + Strength modifier damage at 21st level.
---
Gut Spit
You make a harsh noise in the back of your throat before launching a blast of viscous spittle at your foe.
Encounter
Minor Action * Poison
Targets: One target Ranged 5
Attack: Constitution +2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Constitution modifier poison damage and takes 5 ongoing poison damage (save ends).
Increase to +4 bonus, 2d8 + Constitution modifier poison damage and 10 ongoing poison damage (save ends). Increase to +6 bonus, 3d8 + Constitution modifier poison damage and 15 ongoing poison damage (save ends).
Edit: Also to bring something up from the EPG. The doppelgangers from that book get the following for racial stat bonuses: Dexterity or Intelligence +2, Charisma +2. Personally I question the wisdom of this on the part of WotC, and do not myself plan to use this, however if someone wanted to, anyone have suggestions on reconciling the balance of it?
I'd PEACH this, but it really should have its own thread.
I agree. Discussing design philosophies or individual mechanics is one thing, but critiquing entire races is not really what this thread is for.
@Goldgrae - That said, I'd hate to have you come here asking for advice only to be met with "Get outta of my thread." So I will comment briefly on your races. For the most part, I only have problems with their encounter abilities.
Tail Slash - It's damage is a bit higher than what I would prefer to see on a racial AoE (I prefer to use the Dragonborn's damage progression as the cap), but more importantly, my issue is with the attack stat. Being only strength based makes this power very useless to any class or build that doesn't focus in strength. And that's a lot of them. Allowing the choice of additional stats would fix that (I suggest dex and con).
Retaliatory Bite - Daze bad. No daze good. Also, the target line should unambiguously specify a specific target. Finally, what do you mean by "yielding combat advantage."
Gut Spit - Does crazy good damage. Remember that ongoing damage hits at the beginning of your turn, but you don't get to save until the end. So even at heroic, a foe is taking 1d8+con+5 points on a hit guaranteed, and will likely take more. I suggest either removing the ongoing damage completely or moving it to a paragon-tier feat (sans the scaling). I did the same with one of my homebrew races, where a non-scaling Ongoing 6 damage about equaled the average damage output of the Dragonborn's Enlarge Breath feat.
I do suggest, however, that you create your own thread. That way, your race will get the attention that it deserves from a larger audience of potential reviewers.
To focus on the guide itself, I would just like to state (because no one else has) that WotC gave the Gnolls Abyssal language as one of their racial languages. [/QUOTE[
I hadn't realized that. Thanks for pointing that out.And to be honest I have yet to figure out what reason PC's can't learn one of these languages at lvl 1 (however at lvl 2 its just fine, in fact I had a player retrain his linguist feat at level 2 and pick up both languages, simply to prove he could).
Besides for flavor reasons, my assumption is that WotC and wants to keep those languages restricted so they can serve as a resource tax for prerequisites in feature material. I just got my EPG today, and the Sivis Truenamer path actually has Supernal as a prerequisite, and we might see more of the same in Divine Power.Also to bring something up from the EPG. The doppelgangers from that book get the following for racial stat bonuses: Dexterity or Intelligence +2, Charisma +2. Personally I question the wisdom of this on the part of WotC, and do not myself plan to use this, however if someone wanted to, anyone have suggestions on reconciling the balance of it?
From a purely mechanical point of view, I don't think there are any balance apparent balance problems. While the ability to choice between Dex or Int does make them more versatile than most races, at the end of the day, that choice doesn't make them any more or less powerful.
I would even go so far to say that in most cases, allowing any race to have any combination of racial bonuses would not affect overall balance. It would make races less focus and trample all over the poor humans who would need some form of compensation, but overall most races would not much more powerful for it, I think.
Regardless, I think the trend with the Doppelgangers is going to remain the exception and not the norm. Doppelgangers are suppose to be known for versatility (and even get a paragon path dedicated to that concept), so the idea was not implemented entirely arbitrarily. As far as ability scores go, they're still not as versatile as humans.
By the way, good work, Fireclave. If there isn't one of these for class creation yet, there should be...because many homebrew classes are in dire need of being set straight.
Yes gnolls were in a ddi article some time back towards the beginning (during the free trail period if I'm not mistaken). And many people like crimson think that they were terribly done, which I can agree with to some extent.
Sure, if by "think" you mean "know", "realize", "notice", or "understand". :P
PS: How do you do that card effect for racial powers Fireclave?
I have a question. How would the currently published and DDI races stack up against the rules of this guide or just balance in general? I am guessing that Gnolls and Minotaurs are on the low end, but which race is a good standard for balance?
Hmm, well let's see... In order of how well they're designed from best to worst, here's my analysis...
Deva, Drow, Goliath, Human, Shifter, and Warforged are perfect!
Eladrin and Elf are really high up there too.
And If it weren't for Small size being terribly handled, Halfling would perfect as well. I would say the same of Gnome, but the fact that Master Trickster is completely useless to Wizards rubs me the wrong way.
I have a personal issue with Dwarves and the fact that Encumbered Speed really is practically useless to half of the classes out there, but I don't think I can really legitimately complain about anything other than the tradition here, so I usually let this slide when I discuss poor racial design in the existing races. It's the same reason I generally let racial weapon proficiencies slide too (which are why Eladrin and Elf are up there but not quite perfect). Therefore, letting Encumbered Speed slide, Dwarf is up there with Eladrin and Elf.
I definitely wouldn't let a thing like Encumbered Speed slide for any homebrew races, though.
I dislike that Tieflings are only given a single option for the ability score they use to deal extra damage with their racial power, because I feel like it's just too limiting, so I let players pick between CON, INT, and CHA for that one.
Dragonborn are great except for requiring a CON investment to make Draconic Heritage useful. I let my players take a minimum +1 bonus on that so they still get a benefit even if it's illogical for their build or their character to invest in CON.
I put Tiefling above Dragonborn though because at least Tiefling will always get that +1 bonus to hit from their racial power even if they have no CHA modifier to add damage with.
I just dislike that the Changeling and most Genasi get defense bonuses that are completely unnecessary. My problem with this really is just that I feel like somebody took the easy way out by giving them a boring, unoriginal feature instead of something that would be interesting and unique. Same thing with the upcoming PHB3 Wilden, come to think of it...
On the flip side, Kalashtar are completely missing their racial defense bonus for being a WIS/CHA race, so I'll put them here.
(EDIT: Just to be clear, this is where I'm going to set the line for acceptably well done to unacceptably poorly done.)
I don't think Half-Elf's Dilettante was very well thought out because of how it doesn't allow you to use implements associated with the class you got the power from. To compensate, I allow players of mine who select the race a +2 enhancement bonus per tier to their Dilettante power. This won't stack with weapon or implement enhancements, of course, but if it requires something totally outside what you're class it allowed, you're not totally screwed.
Getting back on the topic of the Genasi, though, I have a particular bone to pick with the Storm ones because their racial power is completely useless unless you specifically select certain class powers or weapons. Really, a level 1 Genasi Tactical Warlord should be a great option, but being completely unable to use your racial power is a total downer.
I absolutely despise the Half-Orc's Swift Charge. Who the heck decided it would be a good idea to give these guys a feature useful for only about a third of the classes out there and almost completely useless to the rest? This was a terrible decision. I let my players have it if they want, but I also give them the option of getting one of their racial feats for free instead: Anger Unleashed, Savage Assault, or Thirst for Battle.
And of course the Gnoll and Minotaur have this same problem just a lot worse, so they're the bottom of the barrel, with Gnoll being slightly more acceptable than Minotaur because it at least has one or two things it can do without being required to be a member of a melee weapon class.
(EDIT: Though really if we do decide to take into account how badly handled Small size was, then I'm actually going to have to put Halfling and Gnome at the bottom for getting racial penalties. I remove the Small size weapon restrictions and limitations from my games, which is why I have them rated up there, but really, playing RAW, at least a Half-Orc, Gnoll, or Minotaur who decides to play against type isn't specifically penalized for it.)
I don't actually know where to put Revenant because I just don't understand them.
PS: How do you do that card effect for racial powers Fireclave?
You can quote his post and see how it is done. (Use the deck tag [,deck,] (without the commas))
PS: How do you do that card effect for racial powers Fireclave?
Exactly like this:
[noparse]
@ Magus_Stragus and Fireclave: Thanks for answering the question. This should help make my future homebrew races that much cleaner.
Btw, why the shifters are perfect, if they have only one racial feature (the racial power)? Is that power enough to balance them with the other races?
Yup. Notice that unlike most other racial powers, the Shifter racial power lasts all encounter long once they use it. May not be the most exciting race when it comes to the mechanics, but it is perfectly balanced and perfectly well designed.
Do note that my list has nothing to do with whether or not I like a race or thing it's cool or exciting. Half-Orc Minotaur are actually some of my favorites, and I care next to nothing about Goliath or Drow.
Racial Power 1
Encounter ✦ Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Requirements: You must be bloodied.
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier. Until the end of your next turn you gain the following benefits: double the resistance granted by your Dragon Skin feature; when you deal damage with a melee attack, you deal an additional Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier damage; and creatures that begin their turns adjacent to you take Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier damage.
Special: When you create your character, choose Strength, Constitution, or Charisma to use with this power. You also choose the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s life and do not change the power’s other effects.
Racial Power 2
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 5
Effect: Allies within burst gain +2 bonus to their next damage roll, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution or Charisma modifier. Increase the bonus to +4 at level 11st and to +6 at level 21st.
Special: When you create your character, choose Constitution, or Charisma as the ability score you use for granting temporary hit points. This choice remains throughout your character’s life and does not change the power’s other effects.
So, what about them?
Would it be bad if other homebrew races had similar variety with ability scores? For example would it be that bad to combine the Shifters into one race with the stats of +2 Wis, and +2 Dex or +2 Str?
Also how would you balance a race this type of option where it has +2 Int and +2 Wis or +2 Dex or something similar where the race has an option where both stats hit the same NAD?
So, let's say I want to mix the two different types of shifters. Would it be balanced to give them upon shifting +2 to damage rolls and +1 to AC and Reflex? ('ll leave the regeneartion as a feat)
I don't see any balance issues with combining the bonus damage with the defence boosts. The regen, however, I think feel is too for a feat as it would basically allow a player to get the best of both racial powers at the same time.
Ok, another question. Are these powers balanced?
Racial Power 1
Encounter ✦ Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Requirements: You must be bloodied.
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier. Until the end of your next turn you gain the following benefits: double the resistance granted by your Dragon Skin feature; when you deal damage with a melee attack, you deal an additional Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier damage; and creatures that begin their turns adjacent to you take Strength, Constitution or Charisma modifier damage.
Special: When you create your character, choose Strength, Constitution, or Charisma to use with this power. You also choose the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s life and do not change the power’s other effects.
This is a very loaded power. Breaking it down, it gives you:
Temp HP
x2 an unspecified amount of energy resistance (Dragon Skin works how?), but I assume it's not neglibile.
Bonus damage to next attack
Auto-hit AoE and minion clearance.
All in all, I think this is too strong for a standard racial power. The bonus damage by itself makes it almost equal to Infernal Wraith, and would be make it a decent power by itself if it wasn't for the melee only restriction. Everything else just cranks it to 11. And AoE automatic minion destruction just feels cheesy to me.
I say pick one, maybe two, of those effects and tweak from there.
Racial Power 2
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 5
Effect: Allies within burst gain +2 bonus to their next damage roll, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution or Charisma modifier. Increase the bonus to +4 at level 11st and to +6 at level 21st.
Special: When you create your character, choose Constitution, or Charisma as the ability score you use for granting temporary hit points. This choice remains throughout your character’s life and does not change the power’s other effects.
This is an potentially cheesy effect as well. In fact, I did a bit a math to help illustrate.
Warning: Math isn't my strongest skill, but I believe I calculated these numbers accurately enough to make my point.
Let's compare Racial Power's 2 bonus damage to that of the Dragonborn's dragon breath. We'll assume a starting con of 16 and assume that con is increased at every opportunity.
Further, we will also assume that every recipient of Racial Power 2 makes one attack against a single target.
Invigorating Howl Kyan Racial Power
You let out a howl that fills your allies with otherworldly vigour.
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 3
Effect: Up to three allies other than you within burst gain +2 bonus to their next damage roll, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution or Charisma modifier. Increase the bonus to +4 at level 11st and to +6 at level 21st.
Special: When you create your character, choose Constitution, or Charisma as the ability score you use for granting temporary hit points. This choice remains throughout your character’s life and does not change the power’s other effects.
Battle Scales
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy scores a critical hit against you
Effect: Turn the hit into a normal hit, and take only half-damage
Tail Sting
Encounter
Minor Action Melee attack
Attack: Strength + 2, Constitution + 2, Dexterity + 2 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier, and the target takes ongoing damage 5 (save ends)
Miss: The target takes Strength modifier damage.
The point of the previous racial powers is much like the drow's. The character can choose to use only one during a single encounter.
Thanks for all the help, Fireclave.
Battle scales seems okay compared to other racial powers.
The ongoing damage might be slightly over what it needs to be for Tail Sting. The damage is always at least 1d6+str+5 which seems a little higher than the usual ability. That's just my thoughts.
@Fireclave: this is a really great guide :D!!!! It'll be really useful. Maybe WoTC could use it
.@Crimson: Edit: Removed for stupidity.
@Crimson: In the CB (I assume that it was also changed in part of the errata somewhere) WoTC has actually changed the Half-orc racial power to
that makes more sense.@Magus: did you read Fireclave's previous response? "Invigorating Howl" seems to keep most of the things that made power 2 overkill in the first place.
Battle scales seems okay compared to other racial powers.
The ongoing damage might be slightly over what it needs to be for Tail Sting. The damage is always at least 1d6+str+5 which seems a little higher than the usual ability. That's just my thoughts.
I read it, and if you read well, I changed it a bit. I reduced it's area of effect, and as Fireclave suggested, I limited the number of allies, and excluded the user as well as a target.
And yes, the damage of Tail Sting is higher than a Dragon Breath, but this power only targets one enemy.
I wonder why Crimson hasn't said anything lately... Maybe he's bored of so many questions...
Shame, his opinion is quite good.I wonder why Crimson hasn't said anything lately...
Sorry, I've been less active in general recently because I've been so ****** off at a few other threads that have popped up where people keep chanting that it's okay for DMs to treat their players like dirt because obviously DMs are infallible and players should bow to their every desire because the DM's fun is more important than everybody else's.
. . . But other than that, my time has also been taken up by a couple of my own homebrew projects, which I should be posting around here shortly.
And my comment on tail sting wasn't that it was unbalanced, just that it was a little more singe-target powerful. It's really a good design (by the was is it for a scorpion race?)
@Crimson: Even normal DMs don't think like that. I can see that being really irritating.
geez.. must..... stop.... COMMENTING!
Invigorating Howl Kyan Racial Power
You let out a howl that fills your allies with otherworldly vigour.
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 3
Effect: Up to three allies other than you within burst gain +2 bonus to their next damage roll, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution or Charisma modifier. Increase the bonus to +4 at level 11st and to +6 at level 21st.
Special: When you create your character, choose Constitution, or Charisma as the ability score you use for granting temporary hit points. This choice remains throughout your character’s life and does not change the power’s other effects.
While still on the strong side, it's much more balanced now. I'd consider making the temp HP aspect a paragon feat, but the game won't implode if you don't.
Battle Scales
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy scores a critical hit against you
Effect: Turn the hit into a normal hit, and take only half-damage
Tail Sting
Encounter
Minor Action Melee attack
Attack: Strength + 2, Constitution + 2, Dexterity + 2 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier, and the target takes ongoing damage 5 (save ends)
Miss: The target takes Strength modifier damage.
The point of the previous racial powers is much like the drow's. The character can choose to use only one during a single encounter.
Overall, I like the contrast between these two powers. Battle Scales is very, very good. Negating a crit and halfing the damage would be too good if it wasn't for the fact that it only activates on a crit. I predict some Yugioh-level trap card-chain drama with this power.
As for Tail Sting, I'm a bit up in the air with it. At first glance it seems very powerful due to the ongoing damage, but after running some number, it's not as powerful as my knee advertised.
Compare:
Just one question. Would you consider this a Major or Minor ability?:
Natural Enemy: You gain +1 on all attacks against Demons and Devils.
Now, granted, Demons and Devils are somewhat common in my particular setting. However, I'm more curious about the balance of this ability in general (i.e. granting a +1 against two specific creature types).
I'm leaning toward a minor ability, since it's fairly situational. However, attack/defense bonuses don't seem to be minor abilities very often. I practically assumed there would be precedent for this (I guess I still have a 3e mindset!) but no existing races get a "racial enemy" bonus. Also, just the fact that it grants an attack bonus makes me think that perhaps it should be a major ability.
I ask this because with the PHB3 theme of attack from the Far Realms, which includes a heavy dose of Psionics, I was hoping to see if the Thri-Kreen could make a comeback.
My favorite idea so far is basically letting them draw and stow items as free actions on your turn and then otherwise having the extra arms perform the function of a Deflect Arrows encounter power, probably a bonus to AC or Reflex against a ranged attack.
Awesome guide, thanks Magus! It helped me balance out a couple different homebrew races I have in the works.
Just one question. Would you consider this a Major or Minor ability?:
Natural Enemy: You gain +1 on all attacks against Demons and Devils.
Now, granted, Demons and Devils are somewhat common in my particular setting. However, I'm more curious about the balance of this ability in general (i.e. granting a +1 against two specific creature types).
I'm leaning toward a minor ability, since it's fairly situational. However, attack/defense bonuses don't seem to be minor abilities very often. I practically assumed there would be precedent for this (I guess I still have a 3e mindset!) but no existing races get a "racial enemy" bonus. Also, just the fact that it grants an attack bonus makes me think that perhaps it should be a major ability.
First, though I'm flattered, the thanks should go to Fireclave, as this is his guide, not mine.
About the ability, I think that it fits more as a feat than a racial feature.
I don't think that really makes for a very good racial ability at all in 4E. Calling out specific creature types mechanically is just as bad as calling out alignment mechanically for being so abstract, arbitrarily, and specific. They both have their place, but definitely not on a PC race. I'm sure you can come up with something better and more interesting than that.
Probably, it's just an early draft of the race, and we modelled it loosely on the 3e equivalent.
It seems to me, though, that it's far too easy to fall into the trap of cloning another race and changing some of the minor details. This ability was an attempt to spice things up by *not* just making a re-skinned $race.
But thanks for the input! I like Magus' idea of turning this into a feat.
Also, sorry Fireclave and Magus for confusing who wrote this guide. Apparently, I can't read subject lines!
I have a question. OK ive got this race for my campaign world from back in the 2e days, and their main thing was they was resistant to magic. Converting this race to 4e has been giving me some trouble as Magic Resistance seems non-existent now. I was thinkin of makin it so that any magical attack against them would be done with two roles, using the lower of the die results, but this seems a little to powerful to me. Any suggestions?
This isn't going to work, and the reason it's not going to work is that you will not find a definition of "magic" in 4E that everybody agrees with. What exactly is even considered a magic attack?
You should come up with other stuff. Unless you made a race that was solely based on a particular mechanic you wanted to use and thus had only a mechanical reason to exist as a one-tick pony, you should be able to come up with plenty else about them that would be interesting enough to make into a racial feature. For example, Drow lost their Spell Resistance too, but there were still enough other interesting things about them that they didn't really need it anymore to be part of their race's identity anyways. So is your race really conceptually interesting or was it just a mechanical gimmick is the question.
I don't know enough about your race to suggest anything specific, but the best I can think of right now to maybe simulate what they used to have is to give them Variable Resistance 5 + one-half their level and have that count as their encounter power, but of course this would then still work against things that were not magical in nature, such as lava and blizzards, and you wouldn't be able to prevent that because you can't define magic.
This isn't going to work, and the reason it's not going to work is that you will not find a definition of "magic" in 4E that everybody agrees with. What exactly is even considered a magic attack?
Thats a good question. I guess the way is see it is a magical attack would be any attack thats not martial. Although im not too sure about psionics or primal, but definatly divine. That was one of theit draw backs was that healing magic didnt work on them either. But any way the magic resistance was a main part of the race as they was basically genitically enginered in a previous age to be mage killers during this great wizard war that was going on. so i really want to keep the magic resistance thing but not sure how that would fit.
I do like the Variable Resistance idea that might be the ticket there. Thought about maybe giving them like a +4 to Wil but that seems too powerful as well.
I guess the way is see it is a magical attack would be any attack thats not martial. Although im not too sure about psionics or primal, but definatly divine.
This makes no sense. Why exactly do they resist a Paladin's Valiant Strike? Why would they resist a Sword Mage's Luring Strike? Why would they resist a Barbarian's Howling Strike? Also, there's the little problem that monsters never have power source keywords...
This makes no sense. Why exactly do they resist a Paladin's Valiant Strike? Why would they resist a Sword Mage's Luring Strike? Why would they resist a Barbarian's Howling Strike? Also, there's the little problem that monsters never have power source keywords...
They would have resitence against these attacks becuase they're backed by magic. Im not sure about the barbarian though as i see the priaml source dealing with like nature spirits or what ever so im not sure if i would count that as magic.
But i see what youre saying.
And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature. See this is the problem im having in trying to update this race for 4e. Im not sure how to pull it off. I want to keep that magic resistance thing in there somehow. Maybe a bonus to saving throws against certain affects such as charm or maybe a bonus to defense against area effects?
And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature.
Having a keyword does not necessarily make an attack magical in nature, and the magical nature of an attack is largely subjective in nature. For example, if a fire elemental-type creature attacks by throwing globs of semi-molten rock at you, is the a magical attack because it has the Fire keyword? If a githzerai pummels you with a stone-shattering barrage of strikes, is the attack magical because it has the Psychic keyword? If a dragon swoops down from the mountains and roars in your face with its fear-keyworded Frightful Presence, does it work the way it does because its magic or because its a big frickin' fire lizard that's innately skilled at intimating things many times smaller than it and oh-god-its-gonna-eat-me!
Maybe a bonus to saving throws against certain affects such as charm
Bonuses against certain effects can and has worked. For example, Eladrin have a bonus against charm effects and Kalashtar are allowed saving throws against certain debilitating status effects at the beginning of their turn rather than at the end.
Im not sure about the barbarian though as i see the priaml source dealing with like nature spirits or what ever so im not sure if i would count that as magic.
Food for thought: A Barbarian's attacks are just as primal as the Warden's, Shaman's, and Druid's. The latter being a traditional caster in past versions.
The big issue here is that while there is still a flavor distinction between magical and non-magical, the mechanical distinction between the two no longer exists. So any mechanics that attempt to play on that specific mechanical distinction will fail (because there is no distinction to play on). And relying on flavor to establish that distinction is useless because flavor is both subjective and mutable.
What you might want to do instead is repackage your race's magic resistance into something that's either more generic (applies not just to "spells") or more specific (applies to a specific attack subset used most commonly by magic users). First figure out what magic themes you want the race to be resistant to, and then design features and feats to defend against them.
For example, spellcaster and spellcaster-themed monsters tend to rely on ranged attacks and ranged AoEs. So one possible anvenue is to give your race a defensive ability that applies to those attacks. The ability could be anything from a forced reroll like the Halfling's Second Chance, temp HP, or energy resistance that can be shifted once per encounter. Alternatively, you could instead emphasis their mage-killer status with an offensive ability. Perhaps one that, for example, grants them bonuses to attack and/or damage against a creature that just hit them with one of the aforementioned attacks, or maybe some Shifter-like V-tec that kicks in when bloodied.
I think your concept can still work, but it's going to take a bit of flexible, creative re-imagining on your part to figure what how exactly it should work and what works best with your vision.
They would have resitence against these attacks becuase they're backed by magic.
No, they're not. None of the powers I mentioned are necessarily backed by magic at all, despite having non-martial keywords. The Paladin's Valiant Strike? It's a bonus to hit for each adjacent enemy, nothing necessarily divine in nature about it. The Sword Mage's Luring Strike? That's almost exactly the same as the Fighter's Footwork Lure, nothing necessarily magical about it. The Barbarian's Howling Strike? How is "I smash stuff really hard! And I can do it during a charge!" necessarily magically backed at all?
And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature.
No, a specific keyword does not automatically make a power magical. Thing with the Fear keyword might just have that because it's really ****ing scary, like Fireclave's example of the dragon. The only keywords that are necessarily magical in my opinion would be Force, Necrotic, Charm, Conjuration, Illusion, Polymorph, and Teleportation. And even then you run into way too many possible exceptions.
See this is the problem im having in trying to update this race for 4e. Im not sure how to pull it off.
Again, if the race was actually more interesting than just their mechanic for resisting magic, then it should be no problem to represent other aspects of them mechanically and have that be that.
I want to keep that magic resistance thing in there somehow.
Well you're not going to be able to. I'm not sure how to make it more clear, but 4E's system just doesn't allow for a consistent definition of magic. The only way to pull it off is to limit it and say they're only resistant to certain kinds of magic. For example, a save bonus versus charm effects would make them more resistant to those but couldn't be representative of being resistant to all magic at all.
Maybe a bonus to defense against area effects?
Not all area effects are magical in nature, so this makes no sense.
I like the forced reroll idea Fireclave i might work that in there. Im also thinking of maybe a limited dispel magic ability like the wizards power, but I dont know thats what a 6th level power? With no ECLs in 4e i really need to tone some things down.
Lets see all in all they had the magic resistance, which is the part i was really having trouble with, they had a healing factor (not regeneration, they didnt grow arms back.) Im thinkin i could simulate that by giving them some extra healing surges. And they had bone claws which i would see as increasing their unarmed damage to 1d6 allowing a racial feat to boost it to 1d8. So yeah they were basically a race of magic resistant Wolverines. But they had drawbacks, first as a race they shunned armor, seeing any one who wore it as being afraid of getting hurt, They considered unarmed combat (albeit with claws) the height of military prowess so they shunned normal weapons especially ranged weapon believing that not to kill a man face to face was cowardly. They also made poor spellcasters because of their magic resistance. But 4e doesnt really use racial penalties so all this amounts to fluff now so i need to work em out so theyre not overpowerfull or anything. I dont want every player at my table goin oh im playin one of these guys.
Fireclave, why is there nothing in your guide about avoiding natural weapons at all cost? Because it seems like every other homebrew race wants to have natural weapons in the form of at-will attack powers or an unarmed attack enhancement even though they're completely inappropriate...
On this point I disagree. Perhaps is my personal bias speaking but I like the idea of races having natural weapons or natural weapon-theme abilities and powers. There's something satisfying about tearing into your foes with nothing but your own power, forgoing the crutches that are necessary to every other warrior. It's one of the reasons people of drawn to the monk class, and one of the reasons why many were drawn to monstrous races in previous editions.
That is assuming, of course, that racial weapons are done in a manner that's both balanced and thematically appropriate; just like any other racial feature.
However, I'll also admit that I'm not as active on the homebrew forums as you are, so I've probably have not seen as many badly implemented natural weapon mechanics as you have.
Perhaps your issue is not with natural weapons per se, but rather with the idea natural weapons that are too liberally handed out; where having sharp nails automatically justifies the race qualifying a race for built-in set of Ginsu where other races of comparable keratin structures do not. If so, then that's more of an issue of preference than one of mechanics. But now I'm just conjecturing.
Fireclave, why is there nothing in your guide about avoiding natural weapons at all cost? Because it seems like every other homebrew race wants to have natural weapons in the form of at-will attack powers or an unarmed attack enhancement even though they're completely inappropriate...
So what are you saying? that minotaurs shouldnt have horns?, i mean if a race has claws or hooves or horns or what ever they should be able to do something with that a little better than 1d4 unarmed i mean really whats wrong with natural weapons?
Perhaps is my personal bias speaking but I like the idea of races having natural weapons or natural weapon-theme abilities and powers.
Natural weapon themed abilities and powers are fine, but it's possible for them to be done in a way that's not overpowered, not completely useless, not completely nonsensical, and not totally contrary to the game's racial design goals.
That is assuming, of course, that racial weapons are done in a manner that's both balanced and thematically appropriate; just like any other racial feature.
That's the problem. The vast majority of the time they're done, they're not balance, and they're not thematically appropriate.
At-will attack powers are a terrible idea. If they're standard action attack powers, they become just as bad as the current Minotaur racial encounter power, channeling the race into a melee class and role or else have a useless racial power because your standard action is supposed to be what you use in order to fulfill your class and party role. If they're at-will minor action attack powers, then that's just overpowered.
As for unarmed attack improvement, etc., they're usually completely useless because they can't be enchanted like other weapons can, and somebody allows unarmed attacks to be enchanted, then it's still inappropriate because it again becomes the kind of racial benefit like the Half-Orc's Swift Charge that's great for melee weapon classes and roles but completely useless to everybody else, and that's bad design.
And then of course you run into logical inconsistencies with existing races. Why exactly do you get an better unarmed attack than a Razor-Claw Shifter? Why do you get an at-will attack power when the Minotaur and his powerful horns do not? Why are your teeth significant enough for mechanical representation when the Dragonborn get nothing for their obviously superior dentures?
This doesn't all mean that natural attacks can't be done. It just means that at-will attack powers and unarmed attack enhancements are an inappropriate way to do them. A minor action encounter attack power should be more than plenty. Anything more than that should be accomplished via feats or some other method that doesn't require a character to have completely useless racial features or powers.
So what are you saying? that minotaurs shouldnt have horns?
Absolutely not. Check my sig to see that I very much want Minotaur to keep their horns and a reasonable way to use them. However, an unarmed attack enhancement isn't the appropriate way to do it, an at-will attack power isn't the appropriate way to do it, and a standard action encounter power isn't the appropriate way to do it.
i mean if a race has claws or hooves or horns or what ever they should be able to do something with that a little better than 1d4 unarmed i mean really whats wrong with natural weapons?
I've explained that above. Nothing wrong with it per se, but there is definitely something wrong with a lot of the consequences. Make your superior unarmed attacks a racial feat instead of a base part of the race, and it's all golden. That way it's not dead weight to characters that can't at all make use of it. Problem solved.
Either that or make it a minor action encounter power.
Crimson Concerto doesn't like natural weapons because in 4e races are supposed to do fairly good in any class they pick, and a natural weapon would be then a worthless racial feature to many non-melee classes. Or so I think.
That's the simple version, yes.
I think I have seen this idea on the boards before but I like the idea of a multi-class feat like the Blowgun training or Bola training to handle fighting with claws.
That does sound kinda cool ShadowGuard but im not sure about the multi-class bit. Im not exactly crazy over the Multi Class rules. Really kinda limits you. No more thief/fighter /magic-user, but i guess that was the point.
No more thief/fighter /magic-user
This is in zero ways true. There are multiple ways to make a thief/fighter/magic-user. What are you talking about?
At-will attack powers are a terrible idea. If they're standard action attack powers, they become just as bad as the current Minotaur racial encounter power, channeling the race into a melee class and role or else have a useless racial power because your standard action is supposed to be what you use in order to fulfill your class and party role. If they're at-will minor action attack powers, then that's just overpowered.
For the most part I agree with this. An at-will natural attack power as part of a race's stat block would definitely not be the way to go (but see below*).
As for unarmed attack improvement, etc., they're usually completely useless because they can't be enchanted like other weapons can, and somebody allows unarmed attacks to be enchanted, then it's still inappropriate because it again becomes the kind of racial benefit like the Half-Orc's Swift Charge that's great for melee weapon classes and roles but completely useless to everybody else, and that's bad design.
But disagree with this. I think unarmed attack improvements are a good way of implementing natural weapons.
First, I see no reason why natural weapons can't be enchanted. I don't have a DDi account, but from what I hear, monks' unarmed strikes can be enchanted. I see no reason why other natural weapons cannot.
As for the universal usability issue, the answer to that is simple. Make natural weapons a racial feat instead of a default racial feature. Melee oriented members of the race can choose take it while non-melee members can take other feats.
This is, in fact, the approach I intend to take with a couple of my own races. I figure it will work if I make natural weapons a feat, and make said feat equivalent to a Superior Weapon feat so that in either case you're spending a feat to access to a new weapon that's worth the investment. And aside from the base cost of a manufactured weapon, they will cost the same as well.
*Though technically, with this approach, you are making natural weapons an at-will power. At the very least, your melee basic attack becomes a natural weapon attack, and if you're a melee character with melee at wills...
And then of course you run into logical inconsistencies with existing races. Why exactly do you get an better unarmed attack than a Razor-Claw Shifter? Why do you get an at-will attack power when the Minotaur and his powerful horns do not? Why are your teeth significant enough for mechanical representation when the Dragonborn get nothing for their obviously superior dentures?
Such inconsistencies are a matter of flavor and willing to suspend disbelief. The simplest answer for why a race's claws are sharper than a Razor-Claw Shifter's or bites stronger than a Dragonborn's is because they simply are. Race's X claws really are sharper, stronger, and, perhaps most importantly, made of something that can endure repeated use as a weaponthat will be utilized against anything from as weak as flesh and as tough as metal without threat of causing self injury. A creature with a weaponized bite might not only have chomps strong enough to crunch through metal on a daily basis, but jaw muscles like a croc to exert enormous pressure for their size and perhaps their teeth replace themselves regularly like a sharks.
A second simple explanation is that they had to hone their existing appendages through training in order weaponize them, much in the same way monks have to hone their unarmed strikes. The amount of training my be reduced due to their natural appendages being almost tough enough to see serious combat use, but additional training is needed all the same.
You could always say that Race X's natural weapon are inherently magical. Plenty of critters in 3e had innately magical natural weapons for the purpose of defeating damage reduction. It's a simple matter of applying the same concept here, but instead of being magic enough to defeat DR, they're magic enough to be used as a weapon.
Or you could always suspend disbelief and simply ignore the flavor issue. Race X has a natural weapon because its cool; Dragonborn don't because they already have plenty of abilities as is and don't need any more.
But the exact explanation, along with addressing or ignoring whatever inconsistencies or breaks in verisimilitude crop up, is the responsibility of the race's creator (though such logical inconsistency need not exist at all if you let other theme-appropriate races acquire natural weapons as well).
~ Mobility
~ Racial Power
You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger: You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.
And the second:
Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect: You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.
I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?
I think they seem pretty balanced and useful for most classes, but I'd like some second opinions.
This is in zero ways true. There are multiple ways to make a thief/fighter/magic-user. What are you talking about?
The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):
~ Mobility
~ Racial Power
You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger: You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.
And the second:
Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect: You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.
I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?
I think they seem pretty balanced and useful for most classes, but I'd like some second opinions.
I get the second one for like a winged race or something, but the first one seem like it could be a standard class power instead of a racial ability. but then i dont know the race so it might fit in there. They seem pretty balanced to me but thats just my opinion.
As for the universal usability issue, the answer to that is simple. Make natural weapons a racial feat instead of a default racial feature. Melee oriented members of the race can choose take it while non-melee members can take other feats.
I already agree with this solution 100%. :D
Also, damn you for linking to TVtropes!
There goes a couple of hours of my life... :P
The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?
The fact that you don't need to multiclass into a class in order to identify your character as a member of it. If my Fighter has a high DEX, uses lighter armor, and picks up skill training in Thievery, he can self-identify as a Rogue, and doing so is completely correct. If my Rogue picks up Arcane or Religion skills and takes the Ritual Caster feat, he can very much identify himself as a mage or Wizard, and doing so is completely correct. If my Wizard pumps up its STR and CON score to gain proficiency with heavier armor and make himself competent at fighting with his staff, he can very much identify himself as a Fighter, and doing so is completely correct.
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):
~ Mobility
~ Racial Power
You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger: You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.
Personally, I wouldn't scale the attack bonus so high. Unlike damage, attack bonuses scale well. A +2 bonus to hit, for example will always be a +10% overall increase in accuracy from 1st to 30th, which is one of the reasons Combat Advantage is always useful to get. And compared to 3e, if you're familiar with that system, even the smallest bonus to hit means alot more in 4e due to how the math scales.
That's not so say I think the power is unbalanced, because honestly I'm not sure. But that +6 bonus to hit at epic especially is undoubtedly a very strong bonus. Though unfortunately, I have neither the time nor patients to do the math to see just how it is in comparison to other abilities.
And the second:
Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect: You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.
I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?
Seems okay to me, though it feels like it could use a boost. I say add the no-OA clause (or at least a bonus agains OA's). You're spending a move action to, most likely, move less distance than you could with a normal move action. So the power likely useless until you need to make a saving through. And as it seems that the theme of the power is to get the heck outta Dodge when crap happens, being able to do so without risking further injury seems appropriate.
The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?
fighter - Flavor-wise, any character that dishes it out in melee. This can be done easily by choosing a base or secondary class that's melee or semi-melee oriented. Can also be done by taking feats like Melee Training or Sorcerous Channeling, so class multiclassing is not required.
thief - Flavor-wise, any character that skilled in getting into where he's not wanted and jacking your stuff. Stealing stuff is not class specific. Arguably, you don't even need training in any specific skills or have any specific abilities to pull this off (a honeyed tongue, some muscle, a distraction, and/or a reliable get-a-away works just as well). Though having training in the traditional thief skill set (Thievery and Stealth) tends to help.
Since this achetype is dependent on having the necessary skills and not a specific class (IOW, you do not need to be a Rogue) one only needs training in the proper skill sets (Thievery is ).
mage - Flavor-wise, any character that's knows how to hax physics. While this achetype is typically achieved by taking a implement-based class, since Rituals are magic and are available to everyone, this archetype is not class based.
Examples of (very simple) fighter/mage/theif builds
Dex/Cha Rogue/Warlock
Str/Dex Spear Fighter/Rogue
+ Skill Training Thievery
+ Skill Training Arcana
+ Ritual Caster
Warlock (any build)
+ Eldritch Strike at-will
*Thievery is a class skill for warlocks
Cha/Dex Sorcerer
+ Sorcerous Channeling
+ Skill Training (Thievery)
Wis/Dex Druid
+Skill Training Stealth
+Skill Training Thievery
This is not even trying.
Also, damn you for linking to TVtropes!
There goes a couple of hours of my life... :P
My apologies. It's a bad habit I've picked up. I really should put a warning label in my sig :D
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):
~ Mobility
~ Racial Power
You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger: You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.
There's a problem with this power. You can't take immediate actions in your turn, and you can only take only one immediate action per turn (in case you wanted to use it after another immediate action, like a readied action, which would be a logical choice). Therefore, you are limited to the use only after an opportunity attack, and that's a bit limiting. You might want to chance the type of action to free action, and put as prerequisites: "you must have dealt damage to an opponent this turn", or something like that.
I get the second one for like a winged race or something, but the first one seem like it could be a standard class power instead of a racial ability. but then i dont know the race so it might fit in there. They seem pretty balanced to me but thats just my opinion.
They both fit thematically with their respective races (at least, I hope they do), so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't scale the attack bonus so high. Unlike damage, attack bonuses scale well. A +2 bonus to hit, for example will always be a +10% overall increase in accuracy from 1st to 30th, which is one of the reasons Combat Advantage is always useful to get. And compared to 3e, if you're familiar with that system, even the smallest bonus to hit means alot more in 4e due to how the math scales.
That's not so say I think the power is unbalanced, because honestly I'm not sure. But that +6 bonus to hit at epic especially is undoubtedly a very strong bonus. Though unfortunately, I have neither the time nor patients to do the math to see just how it is in comparison to other abilities.
Hmm... I may drop that +6 and make it a static +2 at all levels, or possibly remove the +4 at 11th and move it over to 21st level. Still a bit strong, but at least less overpowering. Thanks for the feedback!
Seems okay to me, though it feels like it could use a boost. I say add the no-OA clause (or at least a bonus agains OA's). You're spending a move action to, most likely, move less distance than you could with a normal move action. So the power likely useless until you need to make a saving through. And as it seems that the theme of the power is to get the heck outta Dodge when crap happens, being able to do so without risking further injury seems appropriate.
I'll be adding the No OA clause, which wasn't added earlier mainly because I was worried about its balance. I've also got a couple feats in the works that would help with the range of this skill to make it more useful.
There's a problem with this power. You can't take immediate actions in your turn, and you can only take only one immediate action per turn (in case you wanted to use it after another immediate action, like a readied action, which would be a logical choice). Therefore, you are limited to the use only after an opportunity attack, and that's a bit limiting. You might want to chance the type of action to free action, and put as prerequisites: "you must have dealt damage to an opponent this turn", or something like that.
Thanks for catching that. I'll get around to fixing it as I mess around with the powers a bit more.
While I work more on my racials, here are soms stripped down versions of the 2 races:
Race 1
~
Lithe prowlers of primordial forests
Deadly warriors by any measure
Racial Traits
Average Height: 6’0” – 6’6”
Average Weight: 140 lbs – 165 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 Squares
Vision: Low-Light Vision
Languages: Common, ~
Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature
~ Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Rapier.
Thrill of the Hunt: You gain a +1 bonus to Damage rolls when bloodied.
Wild Sense: You have a +2 bonus to Initiative.
~ Mobility: You have the ~ Mobility power.
Superb hunters and deadly close-combat fighters, ~ are an insular race hailing from the heart of the world’s few remaining primordial forests. From time immemorial the ~ have been guardians of nature, watching over and defending their native forests with unmatched ferocity. ~ believe that other races have lost their way and have sunk down into depravity, severing their connection with the natural world; for this reason, this race of humanoids has remained cut off from the outer world, preferring to live among their own kind and spend their days wandering among the shadowed pathways of their ancient forest homes.
Play a ~ if you want…
- To play a race that respects and defends the forest and nature with unmatched zeal.
- To denounce society as it is and return to a more primal era.
- To be a member of a race that favors the Ranger, Druid, Shaman, and Avenger classes.
Lithe prowlers of primordial forests
Deadly warriors by any measure
Racial Traits
Average Height: 6’0” – 6’6”
Average Weight: 140 lbs – 165 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 Squares
Vision: Low-Light Vision
Languages: Common, ~
Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature
~ Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Rapier.
Thrill of the Hunt: You gain a +1 bonus to Damage rolls when bloodied.
Wild Sense: You have a +2 bonus to Initiative.
~ Mobility: You have the ~ Mobility power.
Superb hunters and deadly close-combat fighters, ~ are an insular race hailing from the heart of the world’s few remaining primordial forests. From time immemorial the ~ have been guardians of nature, watching over and defending their native forests with unmatched ferocity. ~ believe that other races have lost their way and have sunk down into depravity, severing their connection with the natural world; for this reason, this race of humanoids has remained cut off from the outer world, preferring to live among their own kind and spend their days wandering among the shadowed pathways of their ancient forest homes.
Play a ~ if you want…
- To play a race that respects and defends the forest and nature with unmatched zeal.
- To denounce society as it is and return to a more primal era.
- To be a member of a race that favors the Ranger, Druid, Shaman, and Avenger classes.
Though, you better wait and see what the experts say.
Reactive Defense
Itd be an encounter power triggered by whenever you get hit with an energy attack, you would then get like resist 5 to that particular damage type until the end of the encounter.
what do ya think sound ok?
I don't know enough about your race to suggest anything specific, but the best I can think of right now to maybe simulate what they used to have is to give them Variable Resistance 5 + one-half their level and have that count as their encounter power, but of course this would then still work against things that were not magical in nature, such as lava and blizzards, and you wouldn't be able to prevent that because you can't define magic.
I actually already addressed that idea.
so you did. I must of totally missed that part my bad.
So i take it then that your cool with the idea (seeing as how it was your idea to begin with). I like adding in the half-level part, i was thinking of scaleing by tier buy i like 1/2 level better. It works for me, even if it also applies to non magical as well. Thanks for the suggestion i think this IS the way to go.
Would you consider acting as an at-will light source to be a major ability, or a minor one? It has a definite mechanical advantage, but the value of this advantage seems debatable.
I would say a minor ability but really it could depend, like how long does it last? how bright is it? could you blind people with it? that might notch it up to a major ability or an encounter power, in my opinion.
Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.
It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.
Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.
It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.
Oh, there's blinding potential, but that's a separate racial power I'm working on.
Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.
It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.
In my opinion, yeah i would say a minor ability.
Karthons
Ability Score: +2 Str, +2 Con
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Karthon Will: +1 racial bonus to Wil. Once per encounter you can reroll a failed save vs. a charm effect.
Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1
Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6
Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.
Not sure about the vs charm thing either. I wanted to have something in there as a defense against charm but didnt just want to copy the Eladrins.
Opinions any body? is it balanced? should i trim a few things?
Special Thanx to Fireclave (great guide) and Crimson Concerto for their insights and helpful suggestions.
-Regarding Karthon Will, you can just make it so the player can make saving throws against charm at the beginning of the turn instead of at the end.
-Knuckle Spikes, as it's been many times before, should be instead a feat. Why? Because it's too class-situational.
-And about Adaptative Defense, I believe that power is just about the same as Variable Resistance (except that it's triggered by an attack).
You should replace Knuckle Spikes with something else, and maybe change the racial power for Variable Resistance.
(And I still think Karthon Durability is too weak... ¬_¬)
Well, let me point out a few things:
-Regarding Karthon Will, you can just make it so the player can make saving throws against charm at the beginning of the turn instead of at the end.
-Knuckle Spikes, as it's been many times before, should be instead a feat. Why? Because it's too class-situational.
-And about Adaptative Defense, I believe that power is just about the same as Variable Resistance (except that it's triggered by an attack).
You should replace Knuckle Spikes with something else, and maybe change the racial power for Variable Resistance.
(And I still think Karthon Durability is too weak... ¬_¬)
Thanx for the input. Nice idea regarding karthon will i may use that. I do realize the the improved unarmed damage is entirely situation and completly useless to someone with a bastard sword but still they got claws they should get something in there startin out. I was thinkin of expanded on that with racial feats like more damge perhaps a profiency bonus or something.
You think the Durability is too weak? i was kinda thinkin that too. The original version had regeneration but i think thats a little too much. perhaps just give them the Durability feat as a bonus? I dont know i like the Adaptive defense being that you have to take damage before you can resist it. I guess that is kinda limiting. I dont know i may change it to a specific damage type and perhaps have racial feats to choose other resistances? Thanx again for the input. This is still very much a work-in-progress.
Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.
It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.
I think I would count that as a minor. I figure that most adventures happen in places people can see, whether due to the enviroment or the forethought of the players to bring light sources. It's use is overall situational and, as you mentioned, the major advantage is freeing up a hand in dark places. And at a 1 square radius, it doesn't even negate the need for a better lightsource for combat purposes.
Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1
Kinda weak and a bit boring. I would either attach some other secondary, more interesting, effect to Durability or at least up the bonus healing surges to 2.
Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6
Very weaksause. A single die size is not much of an increase, and the attacks are still without a profinecy bonus, so even melee-oriented character wouldn't have much use for them. But as was mentioned above, "natural weapons" really should be a feat.
Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.
...I dont know i like the Adaptive defense being that you have to take damage before you can resist it. I guess that is kinda limiting. I dont know i may change it to a specific damage type and perhaps have racial feats to choose other resistances? Thanx again for the input. This is still very much a work-in-progress.
I'm not so well verse with monster entries, so I don't know how well the ability would work against elemental themed creatures. As is, its potentionally resistance against every elemental type, which is crazy good when it applies, even if you have to get hit first assuming the battle last more than a few rounds. However, it is useless against non-elemental users and is a rather static ability.
Just an idea, but perhaps instead of triggering a reaction when hit by a damage-keyworded attack, you instead make the power more general in nature in both trigger and effect; for example, an immediate interupt that grants a bonus against any triggering attack. Then, make the elemental resistance a secondary effect that last for one or more rounds (instead of the whole encounter).
That would make the power more useful in general while keeping the elemental resistance theme.
Instead of extra healing surges would it be too much to give them regeneration 5/10 at 21st level? Thoughts anyone?
Always-on regen? Yes, it would be too much. Compare such an ability to what Longtooth Shifters get. They not only get less regen (starts at 2, maxes at 6 at 21st), but requires them to be bloodied first, and Longtooth Shifting is their only racial ability. But even then it's a very good one.
Showok ive got the rough draft of my race done. what do you think? thought about changin up the skill bonus seeing as how they would get bonuses to those skills any way because of thier stat bonuses but they way i see it those skill would be what these guys are best at.
Karthons
Ability Score: +2 Str, +2 Con
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Karthon Will: +1 racial bonus to Wil. Once per encounter you can reroll a failed save vs. a charm effect.
Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1
Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6
Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.
Not sure about the vs charm thing either. I wanted to have something in there as a defense against charm but didnt just want to copy the Eladrins.
Opinions any body? is it balanced? should i trim a few things?
Special Thanx to Fireclave (great guide) and Crimson Concerto for their insights and helpful suggestions.
Thanx for the input peoples. Yeah after lookin around on the compendium i realized the the regeneration would be too much might give them something similiar to the shifters ability or stick with bonus healing surges. like the idea of haveing 2 second winds per encounter that would do the trick too. and yeah i guess thier racial power might be a little weak i mean whats the chances of them getting hit with the same damage type twice in an encounter especially if the enemy knows ok these guys have this racial ability so use a different attack now. I was thinkin about givin them a resistince to a paticular energy type like the Tieflings, like okay these guys fought alot of Necromancers back in the day so give them resist Necrotic as the racial power and then have other resistances as feats or something.I know what i what these guys capable of, im just not sure how it fit it in with 4e mechanics. Thanx again for the input.. back to the drawing board :D
Were they seen as more resistant to physical or mental affects of spells? what was thier defining resistance? Like "they resist all spells but thier resistnace to 'X' was thier most importnant or Iconic resistance" Depedning on the answer there are several racial abilities options and feat lines to back them up.
Were they seen as more resistant to physical or mental affects of spells? what was thier defining resistance? Like "they resist all spells but thier resistnace to 'X' was thier most importnant or Iconic resistance" Depedning on the answer there are several racial abilities options and feat lines to back them up.
In previous editions they just had a general magic resistance, or spell resistance as it was in 3.xe. That mechanic seems dificult to transfer to 4e. I think i should just pick a damage type and go with that. Im thinkin of Necrotic as Necromancers were a main enemy of these guys a few ages ago during this big mage war that was goin on. Im thinkin of a Force resistance too as in my mind that fits in with a "general" magic type. I still like the idea of a Varible resistance but i dont want it to be highly situational as i have it now.
In previous editions they just had a general magic resistance, or spell resistance as it was in 3.xe. That mechanic seems dificult to transfer to 4e. I think i should just pick a damage type and go with that. Im thinkin of Necrotic as Necromancers were a main enemy of these guys a few ages ago during this big mage war that was goin on. Im thinkin of a Force resistance too as in my mind that fits in with a "general" magic type. I still like the idea of a Varible resistance but i dont want it to be highly situational as i have it now.
The reason I ask is because you can set it up this way:
As an ability give them resist 5 necrotic and resist 5 force, scaling it to 10 and 15 with the tiers. Then introduce the Racial feat:
True resistance
Choose one: pscychic, fire, cold, acid, lightning, thunder or radient.
You add resist 5 for the chosen damage type to your racial resistances. Increase to 10 at 11th, to 15 at 21st.
Special: you may take this feat more than once.
You could also try out these:
Formidable Resistances:
Increase all of your racial resistances (inculding those from True resistance) by 2
Trained Resistances
Choose one: Fear, Illusion, charm, sleep, or poison.
You get a +5 feat bonus to saving throws against your choice.
Special: You may take this feat more than once.
**If these are horribly unbalanced, anyone whom is better at judging these things then I am polease offer your input/improvments.**
Are any of the alternate forms of vision okay for a race to have? For example Blind sight, or Tremor sense?
What about alternate forms of movement like Swim, Climb or Burrow speeds?
Would it be too powerful to give races a specific superior weapon proficiency feat instead of the normal racial proficiency too make the racial proficiencies worth while? If you did give a race one specific superior weapon proficiency, would it still be a minor ability since you can’t choose the weapon or would it become a Major ability.
I was also working on an Ooze like race and it would have this Ooze form racial power as major ability. Is this really broken?
Ooze Form
At-will, Polymorph
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: Your body turns into an ooze like form which lasts until the end of your next turn. In this form you move your full speed when squeezing and you do not grant combat advantage or provoke attacks of opportunity attacks while squeezing. In addition all your items sink into your form allowing you to squeeze into spaces as small 1 inch in height. While you are in this form you gain a +2 to defenses against opportunity attacks, but you can’t use any attack powers. You can end this form early as a minor action.
Sustain Minor: The power persists.
Also would it be too farfetched to make a Swarm race? It could have a racial power to gain the benefits of the swarm keyword temporarily.
Any feedback would be great.
Are any of the alternate forms of vision okay for a race to have? For example Blind sight, or Tremor sense?
Both are likely inappropriate on a PC race. If your race can conceptually function without them, then it's best you go with that, and if your race can't conceptually function without them, then it's probably not conceptually appropriate as a PC race anyways. You might be able to get away with including it as an encounter racial powers, granting the special vision until the end of your next turn or something like that, but even then, the range should definitely be very limited.
What about alternate forms of movement like Swim, Climb or Burrow speeds?
Climb and Burrow can be just as bad as fly in many scenarios, so they're to be avoided unless, again, they're being granted only for one move via an encounter racial power. You might even have further problems with Burrow because of how that interacts with dungeon walls, floors, and ceilings. As for a Swim speed, I really can't think of how it could be abused, but it's still difficult to balance because the usefulness of a swim speed is heavily based on campaign style. There will be campaigns when you never make use of that swim speed so you'll be underpowered and campaigns were having a swim speed makes them overpowered. It's really best just to avoid it...
Would it be too powerful to give races a specific superior weapon proficiency feat instead of the normal racial proficiency too make the racial proficiencies worth while?
No, it wouldn't be overpowered, but you still shouldn't do it. That sort of feature is exactly like the Half-Orc Swift Charge; it's awesome for some classes and completely useless to most others, and that's bad design. Even normal racial weapon proficiencies as they are now are not a very well designed idea, but at least now they're mostly equally useless to everybody.
I was also working on an Ooze like race and it would have this Ooze form racial power as major ability. Is this really broken?
Ooze Form
At-will, Polymorph
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: Your body turns into an ooze like form which lasts until the end of your next turn. In this form you move your full speed when squeezing and you do not grant combat advantage or provoke attacks of opportunity attacks while squeezing. In addition all your items sink into your form allowing you to squeeze into spaces as small 1 inch in height. While you are in this form you gain a +2 to defenses against opportunity attacks, but you can’t use any attack powers. You can end this form early as a minor action.
Sustain Minor: The power persists.
My only question is why is this a racial power? It sounds to me like you could easily pull off half of these benefits being just plain old racial features that are always active:
Gelatinous Contortion: When you take a move action to squeeze, you can move up to your speed instead of only up to half your speed. You do not grant combat advantage when you squeeze.
And then turn the rest into a better racial encounter power:
Oozing Shift
Encounter
Move Action Personal
Effect: You can shift up to your speed. During this movement, you ignore difficult terrain, you can move through enemy squares, and all of your items sink into your form such that you can compress your body enough to squeeze through a 1-inch-wide crack, so cracks and other openings that are more than 1 inch wide do not slow you down at all. If you do not end this movement in a square that you could occupy, then you return to the most recent square you moved though that you could occupy.
Putting all of that into an at-will polymorph power is just clumsy and mechanically confusing, and being able to move through spaces so small at-will can prove problematic to the point where your DM will eventually just decide the ne needs to make it useless and from then on all cracks will be half an inch wide. In fact, even being able to do it once per encounter could theoretically be problematic. Remember all the commotion way back at the beginning of 4E when people realize that a normal prison could not hold an Eladrin? Of course, we all later found out that all one needs to prevent that is a blindfold, so that ended okay, but this is a little different...
Also would it be too farfetched to make a Swarm race? It could have a racial power to gain the benefits of the swarm keyword temporarily.
A race that's always a swarm would be overpowered. That's half damage from all melee and ranged attacks, immunity to forced movement due to melee and ranged attacks, never provoke opportunity attack for moving through enemy squares, and of course you can always move through spaces about an inch wide...
Even in the form of an encounter racial power, I don't see how you could pull this off very well. At best, I could see the racial power functioning... almost exactly the same as the ooze power above, actually...
And as a general response to everything you've said... It's really just best if you don't. :P
Seriously, your homebrew races will be cooler if you just make them cool yourself and don't try to rely on mechanical gimmicks like these to make them cool for you. I'm not saying that relying on gimmicks to make your race cool is what you're doing; I'm just saying that a lot of people do that, and this is sort of what it looks like...
And as a general response to everything you've said... It's really just best if you don't. :P
Seriously, your homebrew races will be cooler if you just make them cool yourself and don't try to rely on mechanical gimmicks like these to make them cool for you. I'm not saying that relying on gimmicks to make your race cool is what you're doing; I'm just saying that a lot of people do that, and this is sort of what it looks like...
Well I asked these questions not to be gimmicky, its just the races I wanted to homebrew had the fluff to back up these types of abilities. So it didn’t start out with me wanting to have these “gimmicky” things and build the race around it, I actually wanted. Have cool races that just happened to have these abilities to back up the fluff.
I do thank you for answering my questions.
Both are likely inappropriate on a PC race. If your race can conceptually function without them, then it's best you go with that, and if your race can't conceptually function without them, then it's probably not conceptually appropriate as a PC race anyways. You might be able to get away with including it as an encounter racial powers, granting the special vision until the end of your next turn or something like that, but even then, the range should definitely be very limited.
After reading over Tremor-sense, would Tremor-sense 5 really be that bad?
I think it would be an apt Major ability and be flavorful for any Earth themed races. One of the races I had in mind would be like a playable Galeb Duhr. I agree that Blindsight would be better as a racial encounter power since it negates the Blinded condition.
Climb and Burrow can be just as bad as fly in many scenarios, so they're to be avoided unless, again, they're being granted only for one move via an encounter racial power. You might even have further problems with Burrow because of how that interacts with dungeon walls, floors, and ceilings. As for a Swim speed, I really can't think of how it could be abused, but it's still difficult to balance because the usefulness of a swim speed is heavily based on campaign style. There will be campaigns when you never make use of that swim speed so you'll be underpowered and campaigns were having a swim speed makes them overpowered. It's really best just to avoid it...
Hmm so the former are better as powers I guess then. What if you gave a small bonus along with the swim speed to make up for the fact that it’s so situational.
No, it wouldn't be overpowered, but you still shouldn't do it. That sort of feature is exactly like the Half-Orc Swift Charge; it's awesome for some classes and completely useless to most others, and that's bad design. Even normal racial weapon proficiencies as they are now are not a very well designed idea, but at least now they're mostly equally useless to everybody.
Okay I see what you mean; the weapon proficiency would still go to waste for Implement users. I am going to go out on a limb but what if the race was so intoned with the weapon they got they could use it as an Implement for the first implement using class they take. That way it works for all classes but since it only applies to first implement using class they take, the player couldn’t abuse it as a implement for all their classes.
My only question is why is this a racial power? It sounds to me like you could easily pull off half of these benefits being just plain old racial features that are always active:
Gelatinous Contortion: When you take a move action to squeeze, you can move up to your speed instead of only up to half your speed. You do not grant combat advantage when you squeeze.
And then turn the rest into a better racial encounter power:
Oozing Shift
Encounter
Move Action Personal
Effect: You can shift up to your speed. During this movement, you ignore difficult terrain, you can move through enemy squares, and all of your items sink into your form such that you can compress your body enough to squeeze through a 1-inch-wide crack, so cracks and other openings that are more than 1 inch wide do not slow you down at all. If you do not end this movement in a square that you could occupy, then you return to the most recent square you moved though that you could occupy.
Putting all of that into an at-will polymorph power is just clumsy and mechanically confusing, and being able to move through spaces so small at-will can prove problematic to the point where your DM will eventually just decide the ne needs to make it useless and from then on all cracks will be half an inch wide. In fact, even being able to do it once per encounter could theoretically be problematic. Remember all the commotion way back at the beginning of 4E when people realize that a normal prison could not hold an Eladrin? Of course, we all later found out that all one needs to prevent that is a blindfold, so that ended okay, but this is a little different...
I like what you did with the powers thanks for all the help in making it less clumsy.
A race that's always a swarm would be overpowered. That's half damage from all melee and ranged attacks, immunity to forced movement due to melee and ranged attacks, never provoke opportunity attack for moving through enemy squares, and of course you can always move through spaces about an inch wide...
Even in the form of an encounter racial power, I don't see how you could pull this off very well. At best, I could see the racial power functioning... almost exactly the same as the ooze power above, actually...
Okay I liked the idea of the encounter power for the temporary swarm keyword. I like that a player would have to think before using it, while the benefits are great you would have to weigh in the weakness to area and burst attacks.
Thanks again for taking a look at my questions.
MEDUSA
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.
Size: Medium.
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Languages: Common.
skill Bonus: +2 Intimidate, +2 Bluff.
Stone Resilience: +5 racial bonus to saving throws against petrifying.
Poison Resistance: You have resist poison 5 + one-half your level.
Gaze: You can use Petrifying Gaze, if you are female Medusa, and Venomous Gaze, if you are male Medusa, as a Daily power.
Petrifying Gaze
Daily # Gaze
Standard Action # Close Blast 5
Target: Each creature in blast.
Special: Blind creatures are immune.
Attack: Charisma +2 vs. Fortitude.
Increase to +4 bonus at 11th level, and to +6 bonus at 21th level.
Hit: The target is slowed (saves end).
First Failed Save: The target is immobilized instead of slowed (saves end).
Second Failed Save: The target is petrified (no save).
Venomous Gaze
Daily # Gaze
Standard Action # Close Blast 5
Target: Each creature in blast.
Special: Blind creatures are immune.
Attack: Charisma +2 vs. Will.
Increase to +4 bonus at 11th level, and to +6 bonus at 21th level.
Hit: 1d6 + charisma modifier poison and psychic damage, and the target is dazed and weakened (save ends both).
The damage increases to 2d6 + charisma modifier at 11th level, and to 3d6 + charisma modifier at 21st level
Also, both powers use only Charisma as key ability. You should add a bit more versatility to that, as not all classes use Cha. Maybe add Con and Wis as possible options?
About Venomous Gaze, yeah I think I'll take out the weak and daze conditions and put it as an encounter power. I'll let the blast 5, in exchange for the Standard Action required.
About the key abilities, I think I'll let the player have the choice between Int, Wis and Cha, For both attack and damage.
Now, about Petrifying gaze, any idea how to fix it. I mean, its a freaking Medusa, it should have a power that petrifies. Maybe if I change the Blast 5 to one target and put it as an encounter power as well?
Now, about Petrifying gaze, any idea how to fix it. I mean, its a freaking Medusa, it should have a power that petrifies. Maybe if I change the Blast 5 to one target and put it as an encounter power as well?
Full petrification in the hands of a player is going to be too powerful no matter what, racial power or no. That's basically a Save-Or-Die, and 4e has moved away from them. A better option would be to have the petrification end on a save, which would essentially make the power a racial Sleep. However, there's to issues with that:
1) You're duplicating Sleep, arguably one of the most powerful powers in the game. That's quite a more power than what a racial power should grant by default.
2) It's a daily. One of the nice things about racial powers is that they show off how cool your race is every encounter, not just one.
Instead of a full-on petrification, perhaps your race instead gets a lesser gaze attack as an encounter. Thematically, the gaze temporarily stonifies only part of the foe's body's. Mechanically, the attack inflicts a random condition: slow (legs), -2 attack (arms), -2 defenses (head), ect.
In addition, you might want to grant the above full-on (savable) petrification gaze 1/day as a racial option of some sort (standard upgrade racial feat, power substitution feat, racial paragon path, ect).
Vanara
Ability scores: +2 int +2 wis
Size: medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: normal
Languages: common, elven
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 acrobatics
Tree Dweller: gain long jumper and sure climber as bonus feats even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Monkey Business: you can use the Monkey Business as an encounter power.
Monkey Business Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, personal
trigger: an enemy targets you with an attack.
effect: The enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice.
Nezumi
Ability scores: +2 dex +2 con
Size: medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: low-light
Languages: Common, goblin
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 perception
Ratling resilience: gain +5 racial bonus on saving throws vs poison and disease.
Rat attack: Choose one of the three Nezumi racial attack powers Gnashing bite, Quick Claws or Tail Trip
Gnashing bite Nezumi racial power
You perform a vicious bite attack against your foe, leaving him weakened.
At-will
standard action, melee touch
target: one creature
attack: dex +2 vs AC
lv 11: dex +4 vs AC
lv 21: dex +6 vs AC
hit: 1D4 +dex modifier damage and the target is weakened until end of your next turn.
lv 11: 2D4 +dex modifier damage
lv 21: 3D4 +dex modifier damage
Quick claws Nezumi racial power
After slashing with your main weapon you quickly strike with a clawed hand.
At-will
standard action, melee touch
target: one creature
special: you must wield a weapon in your main hand and no weapon in your off-hand
effect: make a melee basic attack using your main hand weapon, if it succeeds make a secondary attack using your off hand.
secondary attack: dex +2 vs reflex
lv 11: dex +4 vs reflex
lv 21: dex +6 vs reflex
hit: 1D4 damage
lv 11: 2D4 damage
lv 21: 3D4 damage
Tail trip Nezumi racial power
When a foe tries to sneak up on you, you use your tail to catch them unaware and trip them up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, melee touch
trigger: an enemy moves into a space where it flanks you
target: the triggering enemy
attack: dex +2 vs reflex
lv 11: dex +4 vs reflex
lv 21: dex +6 vs reflex
hit: dex modifier damage and the target is knocked prone. if it still has a standard action it may use it to stand up.
lv 11: 1D6 +dex modifier damage
lv 21: 2D6 +dex modifier damage
Alrighty, would like to know what people think, I think the Vanara turned out great (was thinking of having monkey business allow the vanara to shift after the attack resolved) but the Nezumi admittedly needs some work. I was inspired by the wilden's three racial powers and wanted to do something similar with 3.5 nezumi's natural weapons bite, claw, and (though not technically a natural weapon) tail spikes. in the end when i look back at what I've come up with after many alterations i could not balance them. Tail trip just seems obviously superior. I wanted to create three different and balanced powers that appealed to different classes. I'm open to suggestions.
Personally, I think giving the Vanara two bonus feats (even ones that are usually more for flavor than actual combat usefullness) is a bit too much. Maybe giving them a choice of one or the other?
Also, while stuff like the Nezumi's Bite and Claw attacks might be flavorful, personally, I'd take just the Tail power and run with it, since it is one of the more unique aspects of the Nezumi. Props for using the 3 power angle, by the way.
Sure, some races deserve Bite or Claw attacks; see the Shifters, and Gnolls, for one. But most of them also have the bad point of shoe-horning the race into a specific category. See the Minotaur. However, I think the Tail attack could work, as it seems like a nice power that is useful for most, if not all classes.
I see what you mean about the nezumi powers, given a choice between the three I would always take tail trip. It had never occured to me that other races had lost their natural weapons and so having realized that it makes perfect sense to get rid of the bite and claw attack powers entirely.
The vanara I can sorta see where you're comming from but Fireclaves guidelines state give the race two significant traits and up to two other insignificant traits... so by combining the jumping and climbing I considered "tree dweller" to be two. If we take one of them away then the vanara seems kind of underpowered. But I do see your point here and partially agree with you. Being able to jump and climb whereever you want presents a similar problem as giving a race flight. So if I take away one of those feats by making players choose between them, then i have to come up with something else to give the vanara so it doesnt seem underpowered.
At one point i considered giving the vanara athletics as a trained skill, but despite that a vanara would typically be a caster type class and not have very high strength and not have athletics on their list of class skills, I also knew that it would be problematic if vanara could climb and jump anywhere without worrying about a roll. If anyone has any ideas of another possible race trait i can give the vanara or maybe a couple of insignificant race traits I'd like to hear what people are thinking.
I'm pretty sure these races still need loads of work, but for now, I'm happy with the Moogle, Bangaa, and Viera races, aside from a couple minor gripes with the the Moogle racial power, which irks me for some reason. My main homebrewing base is on Giant In The Playground, at this link
VIERA
Lithe prowlers of primordial forests
Deadly warriors by any measure
Racial Traits
Average Height: 6'0" - 6' 8"
Average Weight: 145 lbs - 185 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 Squares
Vision: Low-Light Vision
Languages: Common, Viera
Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature
Viera Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Scimitar and the Longbow.
Thrill of the Hunt: When you create your character, choose Dexterity, Strength, or Wisdom. You gain a cumulative +1 bonus to Damage rolls when you receive damage while Bloodied, up to a maximum of 1 + your chosen ability's modifier. This bonus lasts till the end of the encounter or until you are no longer bloodied, at which point the bonus resets to 0.
Wild Sense: You have a +2 racial bonus to initiative checks.
Viera Mobility: You have the Viera Mobility racial power.
Viera Mobility - Viera Racial Power
You dance around your foe, harrying your opponent while you press your attack.
At-Will - Martial
Special: When you create your character, choose Dexterity, Strength, or Wisdom. You may use this power a number of times per day equal to the modifier of the ability you chose (minimum 1)
Minor Action
Personal
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against any opponent you have damaged this turn. This bonus lasts until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 18th level. The bonus from this ability is not cumulative
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MOOGLE
Quirky and somewhat unstable
A strange appearance belies an uncanny intellect
Racial Traits
Average Height: 2' 10" - 3' 3"
Average Weight: 30 lbs - 55 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Mog, and choice of one other language
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Bluff
Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Fey wild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin
Mog Ingenuity: You may halve the time it takes to cast a ritual or use an alchemical formula. All other aspects of the ritual or alchemical formula remain the same.
Wanderlust: You have a +2 racial bonus to saving throws to end the effects of Immobilize and Slow. If the effect does not normally grant a saving throw, you may make a saving throw without the +2 racial bonus to resist the effect anyway.
Flight of Fancy: You have the Flight of Fancy racial power.
Flight of Fancy - Moogle Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake a off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shake off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect: You can Fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. You may make a saving throw at the end of that movement.
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BANGAA
The blood of dragons flows through their veins
Proud warriors and stalwart companions
Racial Traits
Average Height: 5'2 - 5'8"
Average Weight: 180 lbs - 230 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Draconic, and Bangaa
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate
Bangaa Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Glaive and the Falchion.
Encumbered Speed: You move at your normal speed even when a heavy load or your armor would normally reduce it. Other effects that limit your speed (such as difficult terrain or magical effects) affect you normally.
Bangaa Tenacity: When you're bloodied, you gain a +1 racial bonus to all defenses.
Blood of Dragons: You have the Blood of Dragons racial power.
Blood of Dragons - Bangaa Racial Power
With a mighty roar, you call upon the power of your blood to lend you the strength of your ancestors.
Encounter
Personal
Minor Action
Special: You must be bloodied in order to use this power.
Effect: You spend a healing surge and also gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value. These temporary hit points last for 1 round + ½ your level.
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NU MOU
Wise and gentle scholars
A keen mind behind a calm exterior
Racial Traits:
Average Height: 4' 3" - 4' 9"
Average Weight: 150 - 200 lbs
Ability scores: +2 Wisdom, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Nu Mou, choice of one other language
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Insight
Nu Mou Education: You gain training in one additional skill from your class skill list.
Arcane Heritage: You gain Resist 5 Arcane. This increases to Resist 10 at 15th level.
Trance: Rather than sleep, Nu Mou enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits other races gain from a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Deluge of Power: You have the Deluge of Power racial power
Deluge of Power - Nu Mou Racial Power
Tapping deep into the core of your being, you unleash a flood of energy that leaves your foes dazzled.
Encounter
Minor Action
Close burst 1
Target: Each creature in burst
Special: The origin square of this power is unaffected by Deluge of Power
Special: When you create your character, choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Constitution as the ability to use with this power.
Attack: Intelligence, Wisdom, or Constitution + 2 vs. Reflex
Effect: Target takes damage equal to your chosen ability's modifier and is Blinded for a number of rounds equal to ½ your chosen ability's modifier.
Meltheri
Ability Score: +2 one stat of players choice
Size: Medium
Speed: 7
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Nature
Defense Bonus: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Feral Spirit: Similar to Lycanthropic humans, Meltheri are feral in spirit. Gain +2 on checks navigating natural settings.
Pack Hunter: the Meltheri are social creatures, teaming up to survive. Grants +1 to attack and damage rolls to allies within a close burst 5.
Racial Power: Feral Fury
Feral Fury / Racial Power
With a bloodcurling howl, the Metheri sends itself and allies into a frenzy.
Encounter ♦ Primal
Standard Close Burst 5
Targets: Allies effected by Pack Hunter
Effect: the Metheri and each of it's allies in range can make a free basic attack against a target of their choice in range at a +2 attack bonus.
I wanted to make a race that is feral and animalistic. I personally dont like the shifters in 4E all that much, so i decided to take a shot at making a race Be gentle as its my first shot at this lol
Well, pack hunter is overpowered. +1 to attack and damage to all allies between a close burst 5? That's too much. Also, you have to specify that this bonus doesn't stack with other pack hunters ability, otherwise a party of Meltheri would be extremely broken. And for the same matter, the racial power is overpowered. A free basic attack with a bonus to all allies? Too much.
Let me see... For the pack hunter, you can grant the Meltheri a bonus to attack or damage if it has an adjacent ally attacking the same creature (or that attacked the same creature in the last turn). And for the racial power, I have no idea what could work to fill your fluff.
hmmm, that is true. I like the +1 for an adjacent allie attacking the same target.
For the racial power i think i'm going to scrap it and think of something else.
I'm pretty sure these races still need loads of work, but for now, I'm happy with the Moogle, Bangaa, and Viera races, aside from a couple minor gripes with the the Moogle racial power, which irks me for some reason. My main homebrewing base is on Giant In The Playground, at this link
*FINAL FANTASY RACES*
Well I am going to help you with your races today.
First off is the Viera. Thrill of the Hunt is a bit clunky. Something that would require less paperwork for viera PCs and NPCs is to make it just a static +1 to damage rolls when bloodied.
As for Viera Mobility, it would be better served as an encounter power, since players will likely have a high enough ability score to let them use it 3-4 times a day, which is how many encounters they usually have anyways. SO, just make it an encounter power, which also reduces having to keep track of uses. Also, the power seems to be useful just for opportunity attacks and Action Point usage, but a character likely won't have those every encounter, so change it to this:
Viera Mobility - Viera Racial Power
You dance around your foe, harrying your opponent while you press your attack.
Encounter
Minor Action; Personal
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls. This bonus lasts until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level
I like what you've done with the Moogle. They need an extra major ability, since Mog Ingenuity is a minor ability (not all have access/will take Ritualist or Alchemy). An ability such as Wild Step from the elves would be fitting (hover over rough terrain/debris). Add the statement of, "This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. You must land at the end of this movement," to their racial power and maybe increase the speed by 1 square, and it should be fine.
Wanderlust is a nifty power, and I like it. Even though the bonuses are +2, those are two pretty common conditions (in my experience), and it can be used to make a save when there isn't one.
As for the Baanga, their racial power needs some tweaking. Temp HP lasts such a short time and go away at the end of an encounter anyways, that there is no need to place a time limit on them.
As for the rest of the race, it looks pretty good. I think they need one more major ability that is a bit class universal, since melee classes will likely have the weapon proficiencies already, and not too many characters wear heavy armor. Increase their speed to 6 squares. Here is my edit of the Blood of Dragons power:
Blood of Dragons - Bangaa Racial Power
With a mighty roar, you call upon the power of your blood to lend you the strength of your ancestors.
Encounter
Personal; Minor Action
Special: You must be bloodied in order to use this power.
Effect:You spend a healing surge and also gain 5 temporary hit points. The temporary hit points go increase to 10 at 11th level, and 15 at 21st level.
Nu Mou can be tough to nail because they are almost exclusively casters, but the melee option is needed in 4e for race balance. Firstly, their speed possibly needs to be reduced, since their classes had low movement. Secondly, their Arcane Heritage ability really needs to be redone, primarily because enemies don't have power sources like PCs do.
The racial power needs to be changed a little bit. Instead of rounds, it should be save ends. Also, the origin square in Close Bursts are already unaffected by the power unless stated otherwise. Changing it to the daze condition seems like a better idea and fits the same ("leaving foes dazzled"). Sticking to one "set" of ability scores seems to be the standard procedure, so change Con to Cha in the power. Changing the damage to 1d6 without ability modifier would work the same, especially since you are trading it out for a condition.
Deluge of Power - Nu Mou Racial Power
Tapping deep into the core of your being, you unleash a flood of energy that leaves your foes dazzled.
Encounter
Minor Action
Close burst 1
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence +2 vs. Reflex, Wisdom +2 vs. Reflex, or Charisma +2 vs. ReflexEffect: 1d6 damage and the target is Dazed (save ends). Increase to +3 bonus and 2d6 damage at 11th level, and +4 bonus and 3d6 damage at 21st level.
Special: When you create your character, choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma as the ability to use with this power.
Standard Action racial powers are ALWAYS BAD. Some status effects are too powerful to put on a racial power (ex: petrification or blinding that last longer than until the end of your current turn). If you really think that your race needs to be able to do something that is overpowered, then maybe it should be a monster race and not a PC race.
And if you're going to give your race a bonus to something, make sure that that something actually exists; there's no such thing as a saving throw versus disease, saving throws versus status effects don't work (slowed, immobilized, petrified, etc.), and "arcane" is not a damage type to gain resistance against.
Standard Action racial powers are ALWAYS BAD.
Why?
I'm not saying that there is no possible mechanical way for a standard action racial power to be well designed. I can actually think of quite a few right off the top of my head, but they're not the sorts of power that people actually tend to use in practice when they're creating their home-brews. When I see a power that's an exception, I'll commend it, but so far, I've only ever seen it happen once. The power was a modified Total Defense action, and the reason that was allowed to slide was that if a character is going to be using the Total Defense action, it would be acting out of role anyways. Other possible exceptions would be a modified Second Wind power or a power that was a modification upon another attack power you possess from your class.
Dretch
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 3'-6"-4'-0"
Average Weight: 60-75 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Darkvision
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Intimidate
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Radiant, Thunder, Force, Lightning, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Demonic Origin: You are considered an elemental creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin, and you have the demon subtype.
Seen it All: +5 to saving throws vs. Fear
Sickening Miasma: Choose one at character creation: You can use the Sticky Miasma racial power once per encounter, or you can use the Repulsive Miasma racial power once per encounter. You cannot change this choice.
Sticky Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Repuslive Miasma
Encounter * Poison
Minor Action Personal
Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.
Attack: Str, Con, or Dex +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage.
Increase the bonus to +6 and the damage to 2d6 at 11th level, and increase the bonus to +9 and the damage to 3d6 at 11th level.
Special: When you create your character, choose either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability to use when making this attack. That choice remains throughout your character's life.
Heroic Tier Race Feats:
Explosive Miasma: Expand the range of your sickening Miasma power to close burst 3.
Smokey Stink: After using your Sickening Miasma power you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Expansive Resistance: Your Flexible Resistance class feature now provides two different resistances after each extended rest.
Paragon Tier Race Feats:
Choking Miasma: Each creature hit by your Sickening Miasma power is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Brainless Grit: After succeeding on a fear saving throw you gain 5+constitution modifier temperary hit points.
Friendly Stink: Any allies that are the target of your Sickening Miasma power gain +5 to their fortitude defenses against the attack.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Races that get both of their ability score boosts towards ability scores that improve the same defense generally get a +1 racial defense boost to make up for it. For example, the Eladrin with +2 DEX and +2 INT gets a +1 bonus to Will, and the Goliath with +2 STR and +2 CON gets a +1 bonus to Will as well.
Vision: Darkvision
Darkvision is supposed to be avoided except in a very limited number of circumstances, and I don't see why this should be one. Low-Light should be good enough.
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Radiant, Thunder, Force, Lightning, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Instead of listing every damage type out, why don't you just say "Select a damage type"? You've got everything but Psychic on that list anyways, and I don't see any reason to bar it to begin with, so...
Raical powers in general:
I think that Close burst 2 is too much for either of those powers if they're going to do that much damage. Either make them Close burst 1 or change to damage to only the damage die or only an ability score modifier but not both.
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
I understand neither the flavor nor the mechanic behind this power. What's supposed to be going on here conceptually? Also any move action? Even move action that don't actually move you like standing up? What about teleporting? Does this even affect shifts? I don't know, this seems awefully general to the point where I don't get what it's supposed to be doing or why.
Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.
Again, I don't get what the point of this power is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to actually repel anything at all, and I don't understand what's up with this delayed attack thing. You need to clarify what this power is supposed to be doing and why from a flavor perspective, because right now, it just looks like a random mechanic without any obvious flavor behind it.
Raical powers in general:
I think that Close burst 2 is too much for either of those powers if they're going to do that much damage. Either make them Close burst 1 or change to damage to only the damage die or only an ability score modifier but not both.
I understand neither the flavor nor the mechanic behind this power. What's supposed to be going on here conceptually? Also any move action? Even move action that don't actually move you like standing up? What about teleporting? Does this even affect shifts? I don't know, this seems awefully general to the point where I don't get what it's supposed to be doing or why.
Again, I don't get what the point of this power is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to actually repel anything at all, and I don't understand what's up with this delayed attack thing. You need to clarify what this power is supposed to be doing and why from a flavor perspective, because right now, it just looks like a random mechanic without any obvious flavor behind it.
The reason they are such a large burst and actual damage is that the target has the option to not take the damage. In the case of Sticky, they can just not move. In the case of Repuslive, they can just move away (hence the delayed attack).
The general idea is they emit a noxious, poisonous cloud. In the case of the first option it is based directly on the MM entry. It is more poisonous, and causes pain to those who move. Perhaps the condition should be changed to "when target moves or shifts". But after I saw the power, I realized it was pretty much only useful for defenders or those acting in a similar role. In order to maintain a sort of "universal" usefulness, I created the opposite version, one that would keep people away. This is done through, flavor-wise, a potent and demonic stench that can actually rot your flesh. Hence, once the power is activated, everyone with any sense is getting the hell out of the way. The idea is to keep people off of you for a round or two. If you have a better way to reproduce this effect, we're all ears.
Almost all crunch at the moment, except for a list of suggestions for names. I'd be eager to see what, if anything, master Crimson would have to say on the new stuff.
But yeah, their racial write-up looks perfectly fine. I'm not as good a judge of feats and paragon paths (I must admit I have a fair bit of trouble designing them myself), but I don't see any big problems from an initial read-through.
Only thing I might suggest is that there be some sort of range limitation to the Vital Link paragon path feature. Right now, it works clear across the plane and even if you and your ally aren't in battle together. Also, Vital Link looks really powerful if it performs that much surgeless healing, so I might suggest turning that into temporary HP, and even still, that seems like a lot of temporary HP to be throwing around...
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Races that get both of their ability score boosts towards ability scores that improve the same defense generally get a +1 racial defense boost to make up for it. For example, the Eladrin with +2 DEX and +2 INT gets a +1 bonus to Will, and the Goliath with +2 STR and +2 CON gets a +1 bonus to Will as well.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that little mechanic. I'll add in +1 to will because reflex doesn't exactly suit the piles of meat of dretches are.
Vision: Darkvision
Darkvision is supposed to be avoided except in a very limited number of circumstances, and I don't see why this should be one. Low-Light should be good enough.
Yeah I was going off the monster manual entry a little too closely, I overlooked that all of the races have normal vision or low light; no exceptions made. Knotching that vision down to low light with some cataracts.
Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Radiant, Thunder, Force, Lightning, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.
Instead of listing every damage type out, why don't you just say "Select a damage type"? You've got everything but Psychic on that list anyways, and I don't see any reason to bar it to begin with, so...
Yeah, select a damage type condenses a lot more text, thanks.
Raical powers in general:
I think that Close burst 2 is too much for either of those powers if they're going to do that much damage. Either make them Close burst 1 or change to damage to only the damage die or only an ability score modifier but not both.
I have the burst so large on account that the creature hit can actually choose not to take the damage by either not moving with sticky miasma or moving away with repulsive miasma. All the while the move has to hit. But never the less i may just crank it down to close burst 1 anyway.
Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.
I understand neither the flavor nor the mechanic behind this power. What's supposed to be going on here conceptually? Also any move action? Even move action that don't actually move you like standing up? What about teleporting? Does this even affect shifts? I don't know, this seems awefully general to the point where I don't get what it's supposed to be doing or why.
Yeah it is basically just a mechanic for now that was thought to be interesting. I havn't really created the flavor for it yet. I just have all this on here to go through the stage of "Are the mechanics balanced?" So yeah, any move action really,would trigger it. And besides, shifting counts as a move action, along with standing up and teleporting from an area is not. But those are just basic rules anyway.
Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.
Again, I don't get what the point of this power is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to actually repel anything at all, and I don't understand what's up with this delayed attack thing. You need to clarify what this power is supposed to be doing and why from a flavor perspective, because right now, it just looks like a random mechanic without any obvious flavor behind it.
This power is supposed to repel creatures on some level. The reason why there are two different miasma's to choose from in the first place is that it gives the race utility for multiple classes that may be melee and want enemies to stay close or to be ranged and want enemies to stay away. The flavor for the repulsive miasma may be like a lingering smell, if you stay in proximity too long it becomes more and more potent until you are undertaken by the smell.
Thanks for your critique sir. I'll probably come out with a official looking race page with full flavor and fixed mechanics later on.
so the new Vanara looks something like this...
Vanara
Ability scores: +2 wis / +2 int or +2 dex
Size: medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: low light
Languages: common, elven
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 acrobatics
Tree Dweller: Choose long jumper or sure climber, you gain the choosen feat as a bonus feat even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Monkey Business: you can use Monkey Business as an encounter power.
Monkey Business Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, personal
trigger: an enemy targets your AC or reflex defense with an attack.
effect: The enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice.
Play a Vanara is you want...
* to look like a monkey.
* to be a clever trickster or wise sage.
* to leap and climb with natural ease.
* to be a race that favors the avenger, druid, invoker, monk, psion, ranger, seeker, shaman and wizard classes
Ability scores: +2 wis / +2 int or +2 dex
*sigh*
Copying what the Changeling does has becomes really popular with home-brews lately, but I will continue to discourage it until I see a race other than Changeling where it actually fits. Look, the reason why the Changeling gets to do this is because flexibility and versatility are the entire point of playing a Changeling. If your race's flavor isn't totally about flexibility and versatility, then such ability score options don't belong on your race.
Tree Dweller: Choose long jumper or sure climber, you gain the choosen feat as a bonus feat even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Giving out a bonus feat is sort of an easy and unoriginal way of going about racial features, but even if you'd prefer to keep it, having this as your solitary racial feature is underpowered.
Monkey Business Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, personal
trigger: an enemy targets your AC or reflex defense with an attack.
effect: The enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice.
This should probably be an immediate interrupt as opposed to an immediate reaction.
Also, it's not optimally worded. This makes it seem as though the enemy rolled once and then is now going to roll twice for a total of three rolls. Instead, I'd have power be worded such that it forces the enemy to roll one more time and use that result if it's lower. Though with your limitation of what sort of attack it can apply to, this would be weaker than the Halfling's Second Chance.
Basically, your race is just too weak.
originally it was both feats and people said that was over powered, yes feats are unoriginal but I used the 3.5 vanara as an inspiration and jumping and climbing is basically all they do. so if two feats is over powered and one choice of two is underpowered then what am i to do with them.
the encounter power is worded similar to the way the avenger's oath of enmity power is, i wanted it to work similar to that power rather than the halfling's second chance power wich triggers after an attack is rolled. it is an imediate reaction because the trigger is you becoming the target of the attack not your enemy rolls an attack. it says your enemy rolls twice cuz you're oath of clumsinessing your enemy. they target you, you make them roll twice, you make them use the result of your choice... it couldnt be simpler. i don't think it's wording needs to be changed but yes the limitation makes it weak i wasn't sure why i suggested it in the first place, flavor i guess, like the idea is that they trip you up or something i dont see fancy footwork having anything to do with a will or fortitude attack.
+2 int, +2 wis, -2 str
size: medium
speed: 30ft climb 20ft
skills: +8 climb, +4 to balance and jump, +2 to hide and move silently
vision: low light
languages: comon, vanara
bonus languages: giant, goblin, spirit tongue, sylvan
favored class: shaman
Ability scores: +2 dex, +2 wis
Size: medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: low light
Languages: common, elven
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 acrobatics
Tree Dweller: gain long jumper and sure climber as bonus feats even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Monkey Business: you can use Monkey Business as an encounter power.
Monkey Business Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate inturrupt, personal
effect: when an enemy targets you with an attack, the enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice. the triggering enemy takes damage equal to your wisdom modifier if it misses.
threre, traded int for dex now people can say the vanara is just another elf clone...
it now gets both feats with the +1 athletics it gets from those feats it has a total of +2 athletics and +2 acrobatics, +2 stealth. the only thing the old vanara had going for it was mad skill bonuses and this one follows that tradition.
monkey business is new and improved, may trigger on any type of attack and deals a little bit of damage. now pick it appart and tell me its terrible...
i want the 4e vanara to both feel like an official new race and the old 3.5 race but there isnt much to go on and I'm afraid i cant come up with anything much because i dont know how to tell if something is fair and balanced. the damage thing was even going to be a feat i thought up but the race obviously does need more power.
Look, the reason why the Changeling gets to do this is because flexibility and versatility are the entire point of playing a Changeling. If your race's flavor isn't totally about flexibility and versatility, then such ability score options don't belong on your race.
I believe that the PHB3 pretty much invalidates this viewpoint. I expect that in the future we will see this on many/most races.
Ability Scores: +2 Int, +2 Con OR +2 Cha
Size: Medium
Vision: Normal
Speed: 6 squares
Languages: Common, Deep Speech
Skill Bonuses: +2 Insight +2 Arcana
Magical Attuned: Arcana added to class skill list
Terrifying Mind: Corrupted add +2 to will defense.
Aberrant Origin: Corrupted are strongly influenced by the Far Realm and count as having the Aberrant Origin.
Mad Certainty: Corrupted gain the Mad Certainty racial power.
Mad Certainty Corrupted Racial Power
It all makes SENSE now...
Encounter
No Action Personal
Trigger: You make an attack roll, a saving throw, a skill check, or an ability check and dislike the result.
Effect: Roll a d6. On an even roll (2,4,6) add 5 to the triggering roll. On an odd roll (1,3,5) subtract 5.
Basically the campaign I am working on is after a millenia of mind flayer rule. A hundred years before the campaign an army was formed to over throw them, but in the process a portal to the Far Realm was opened and it's alien energies and beings devestated the planet. It's kind of post apocalyptic, with Far Realm corruption instead of radiation. Corrupted are a by product of this influence. They look mostly human, but mature frighteningly fast (full grown in just 2 years), and are prone to madness.
Show
Str & Dex (Primary)
Str & Dex (Primary)
Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Monk, & Seeker
Str & Dex (Secondary)
Barbarian, Warden, Runepriest, Warlord, Cleric, Paladin, Druid, Wizard, & Avenger
Str & Con (Primary)
Fighter, Barbarian, Warden, & Runepriest
Str & Con (Secondary)
Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Monk, Seeker, Warlord, Cleric, Paladin, Druid, Warlock, Bard, Invoker, Shaman, Ardent, & Battlemind
Str & Int (Primary)
Warlord
Str & Int (Secondary)
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Str & Wis (Primary)
Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Warden, Monk, Runepriest, & Seeker
Str & Wis (Secondary)
Rogue, Sorcerer, Barbarian, Warlord, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Ardent, Battlemind, Wizard, Avenger, & Psion
Str & Cha (Primary)
Cleric, Paladin, Rogue, Warlord, Barbarian, & Sorcerer
Str & Cha (Secondary)
Fighter, Ranger, Monk, Seeker, Warden, Runepriest, Warlock, Bard, Ardent, Battlemind, & Psion
Con & Dex (Primary)
Fighter & Druid
Con & Dex (Secondary)
Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Monk, Seeker, Barbarian, Warden, Runepriest Invoker, Shaman, Ardent Battlemind, Warlock, Bard, Wizard, & Avenger
Con & Int (Primary)
Warlock, Bard, Invoker, & Shaman
Con & Int (Secondary)
Fighter, Barbarian, Warden, Runepriest, Warlord, Druid, Ardent, Battlemind, Wizard, Avenger, & Psion
Con & Wis (Primary)
Fighter, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Warden, Ardent, Battlemind, & Runepriest
Con & Wis (Secondary)
Barbarian, Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, Monk, Seeker, Warlock, Bard, Wizard, Avenger, & Psion
Con & Cha (Primary)
Warlock, Barbarian, Bard, Ardent, & Battlemind
Con & Cha (Secondary)
Fighter, Warden, Runepriest, Cleric, Paladin, Rogue, Warlord, Sorcerer, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, & Psion
Dex & Int (Primary)
Wizard & Avenger
Dex & Int (Secondary)
Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Monk, Seeker, Warlord, Druid, Warlock, Bard, Invoker, Shaman, & Psion
Dex & Wis (Primary)
Fighter, Ranger, Wizard, Avenger, Druid, Monk, & Seeker
Dex & Wis (Secondary)
Rogue, Sorcerer, Cleric, Paladin, Warden, Runepriest, Invoker, Shaman, Ardent, Battlemind, &
Psion
Dex & Cha (Primary)
Rogue & Sorcerer
Dex & Cha (Secondary)
Fighter, Ranger, Monk, Seeker, Cleric, Paladin, Warlord, Barbarian, Druid, Warlock, Bard, Ardent, Battlemind, Wizard, Avenger, & Psion
Int & Wis (Primary)
Wizard, Avenger, Invoker, Shaman, & Psion
Int & Wis (Secondary)
Warlord, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Warden, Monk, Runepriest, Seeker, Warlock, Bard, Druid, Ardent, Battlemind, & Ranger
Int & Cha (Primary)
Warlock, Warlord, Bard, & Psion
Int & Cha (Secondary)
Cleric, Paladin, Rogue, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Invoker, Shaman, Ardent, Battlemind, Wizard, & Avenger
Wis & Cha (Primary)
Cleric, Paladin, Ardent, Battlemind, & Psion
Wis & Cha (Secondary)
Fighter, Ranger, Warden, Monk, Runepriest, Seeker, Rogue, Warlord, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Warlock, Bard, Wizard, & Avenger
i.e. you get +2 to any two mental OR any two physical abilities, and +1 to fort and will repsctively to make up for the lack. Distinct physical subtypes, one goliath-like, one relatively weedy. Two distinct racial powers, probably one shared major and minor feature and one distinct major and mnor feature for each sub type.
It may be horribly unbalanced and not much use as a concept, but I thought I might ask opinions before venturing any further into development.
Any input would be great, thanks!
Here's the link:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
I've noticed that at-will flight has been addressed and proven to be quite overpowered, but what about at-will teleporting? I quite like the idea of a race that jumps around the battlefield, doing a kind of hit-and-run thing. Just thought I'd ask before I came up with something, although I'll probably do it anyways.
I highly doubt that this can be pulled off. The main problem here would be all of the effects out there available to increase teleport speed, so it would be problematic even if you only had a teleport speed of 1.