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Free Rituals

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
salla
Oct 17, 2011 16:07:40 For clarity's sake, when I say 'Rituals' during this post, I mean 'Rituals without variable costs'. In other words, not Enchant Magic Item.

I want to create a houserule where Ritual Casters get to use a certain number of Rituals per day without cost; between that and Inherent Bonuses, I can be completely freeform with treasure and money without hosing anybody, as near as I can determine. The question, of course, is how many? My initial thought was 2 at heroic, 3 at paragon, 4 at epic ... but that seems a bit stingy, but more would probably go to waste.

Thoughts?
#2
alitain
Oct 17, 2011 17:31:30 Curious as to why? Can't your players buy rituals? I mean not really saying anything against it, just that it seems an odd thing since they're not that hard to get. I mean sure, later levels they get to be expensive to purchase(and perform in some cases) but so does everything else.

Then there's the fact that the Wizard, and I think one or two of the other ritual caster classes gain rituals for free already. So why add more on top of that? But I guess going along with the idea, I would only say two or maybe three at the beginning of each tier, and they obviously have to be their level or lower. I mean it also depends on how ritual dependant you think the players are, or you're planning to make your game if you're the DM. If you're intending on putting the party in a lot of situations where they'll need to use rituals then maybe 3 or 4 per tier I guess(again my vote is to not bother, let them buy the rituals or figure out another way to solve a problem). But if they don't really use rituals much then two would probably be more than enough per tier. Also depends on how many players would be playing classes that get ritual casting or that take the feat.
#3
salla
Oct 17, 2011 17:32:32
Curious as to why? Can't your players buy rituals? I mean not really saying anything against it, just that it seems an odd thing since they're not that hard to get. I mean sure, later levels they get to be expensive to purchase(and perform in some cases) but so does everything else.

Then there's the fact that the Wizard, and I think one or two of the other ritual caster classes gain rituals for free already. So why add more on top of that? But I guess going along with the idea, I would only say two or maybe three at the beginning of each tier, and they obviously have to be their level or lower. I mean it also depends on how ritual dependant you think the players are, or you're planning to make your game if you're the DM. If you're intending on putting the party in a lot of situations where they'll need to use rituals then maybe 3 or 4 per tier I guess(again my vote is to not bother, let them buy the rituals or figure out another way to solve a problem). But if they don't really use rituals much then two would probably be more than enough per tier. Also depends on how many players would be playing classes that get ritual casting or that take the feat.

Clarification: I meant use rituals for free, not acquire them for free.
#4
Fireclave
Oct 17, 2011 17:34:43 A 2/3/4 scheme sounds pretty good to me. Especially if the party has more than one ritual caster and/or you still allow additional casts using ritual reagents as normal.

Though only having two free casts throughout heroic is a bit low if the free ritual uses are going to be the main or only source of ritual casting. You could probably get away with 3/4/5. Or you could try additional additional resources to increase that number a bit, in the form of feats, items, class features etc.
#5
Crimson_Concerto
Oct 17, 2011 20:17:32 Honestly, 2/3/4 already sounds generous to me. I think that 1/2/3 would be plenty. But whatever, that sounds cool. I don't think that it would cause any issues, and it may get players to think about their rituals more, so now that you mention it I think I might institute some sort of free ritual system in the game I'm about to start up...
#6
pluisjen
Oct 18, 2011 6:51:48 I feel it might be better to base it on an X amount of resources worth rather then just a flat number. Or you'll get players constantly throwing out at-level rituals which are supposed to be a considerable investment for the character.

It'll also give them the option of freely throwing around low-level rituals after a while.
#7
ciaran
Oct 18, 2011 10:59:52 In the last game I ran I expedited the rate at which ritual casters gained their free rituals and lowered the cost of rituals with less mechanical impact on the game. For example, I saw nothing to lose by cutting the price of Fastidiousness in half, whereas Linked Portal and most divinations stayed put.

This was done to encourage their use. Mostly what I found is that some people couldn't be bothered.
#8
alitain
Oct 18, 2011 17:21:10 Ah, gotcha Salla maybe I was just reading your post wrong.

Yeah, in that case a simple 1/2/3 free cost rituals a day wouldn't be bad I guess. There are plenty of classes/PP/ED and other such that let you cast certain rituals for free once a day anyway

Still think there's no need, but then again for the longest time our group had read the rules of rituals wrong and were under the impression that if someone was casting a ritual, if someone helped them it would cut the casting time in half. So I can't say we haven't played around with the rules of rituals, albeit unintentionally. Of course we don't play that way anymore once we realized our mistake, but yeah. Doubt it'll break the game or anything, since rituals are only as good as the situations that they can be used it. While a ritual may be awesome, if there's never really a chance to say use the ritual that lets you breathe underwater then it isn't that awesome no matter if you can cast it for free once or twice a day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 salla Oct 17, 2011 16:07:40	For clarity's sake, when I say 'Rituals' during this post, I mean 'Rituals without variable costs'. In other words, not Enchant Magic Item. I want to create a houserule where Ritual Casters get to use a certain number of Rituals per day without cost; between that and Inherent Bonuses, I can be completely freeform with treasure and money without hosing anybody, as near as I can determine. The question, of course, is how many? My initial thought was 2 at heroic, 3 at paragon, 4 at epic ... but that seems a bit stingy, but more would probably go to waste. Thoughts?
#2 alitain Oct 17, 2011 17:31:30	Curious as to why? Can't your players buy rituals? I mean not really saying anything against it, just that it seems an odd thing since they're not that hard to get. I mean sure, later levels they get to be expensive to purchase(and perform in some cases) but so does everything else. Then there's the fact that the Wizard, and I think one or two of the other ritual caster classes gain rituals for free already. So why add more on top of that? But I guess going along with the idea, I would only say two or maybe three at the beginning of each tier, and they obviously have to be their level or lower. I mean it also depends on how ritual dependant you think the players are, or you're planning to make your game if you're the DM. If you're intending on putting the party in a lot of situations where they'll need to use rituals then maybe 3 or 4 per tier I guess(again my vote is to not bother, let them buy the rituals or figure out another way to solve a problem). But if they don't really use rituals much then two would probably be more than enough per tier. Also depends on how many players would be playing classes that get ritual casting or that take the feat.
#3 salla Oct 17, 2011 17:32:32	Curious as to why? Can't your players buy rituals? I mean not really saying anything against it, just that it seems an odd thing since they're not that hard to get. I mean sure, later levels they get to be expensive to purchase(and perform in some cases) but so does everything else. Then there's the fact that the Wizard, and I think one or two of the other ritual caster classes gain rituals for free already. So why add more on top of that? But I guess going along with the idea, I would only say two or maybe three at the beginning of each tier, and they obviously have to be their level or lower. I mean it also depends on how ritual dependant you think the players are, or you're planning to make your game if you're the DM. If you're intending on putting the party in a lot of situations where they'll need to use rituals then maybe 3 or 4 per tier I guess(again my vote is to not bother, let them buy the rituals or figure out another way to solve a problem). But if they don't really use rituals much then two would probably be more than enough per tier. Also depends on how many players would be playing classes that get ritual casting or that take the feat. Clarification: I meant use rituals for free, not acquire them for free.
#4 Fireclave Oct 17, 2011 17:34:43	A 2/3/4 scheme sounds pretty good to me. Especially if the party has more than one ritual caster and/or you still allow additional casts using ritual reagents as normal. Though only having two free casts throughout heroic is a bit low if the free ritual uses are going to be the main or only source of ritual casting. You could probably get away with 3/4/5. Or you could try additional additional resources to increase that number a bit, in the form of feats, items, class features etc.
#5 Crimson_Concerto Oct 17, 2011 20:17:32	Honestly, 2/3/4 already sounds generous to me. I think that 1/2/3 would be plenty. But whatever, that sounds cool. I don't think that it would cause any issues, and it may get players to think about their rituals more, so now that you mention it I think I might institute some sort of free ritual system in the game I'm about to start up...
#6 pluisjen Oct 18, 2011 6:51:48	I feel it might be better to base it on an X amount of resources worth rather then just a flat number. Or you'll get players constantly throwing out at-level rituals which are supposed to be a considerable investment for the character. It'll also give them the option of freely throwing around low-level rituals after a while.
#7 ciaran Oct 18, 2011 10:59:52	In the last game I ran I expedited the rate at which ritual casters gained their free rituals and lowered the cost of rituals with less mechanical impact on the game. For example, I saw nothing to lose by cutting the price of Fastidiousness in half, whereas Linked Portal and most divinations stayed put. This was done to encourage their use. Mostly what I found is that some people couldn't be bothered.
#8 alitain Oct 18, 2011 17:21:10	Ah, gotcha Salla maybe I was just reading your post wrong. Yeah, in that case a simple 1/2/3 free cost rituals a day wouldn't be bad I guess. There are plenty of classes/PP/ED and other such that let you cast certain rituals for free once a day anyway Still think there's no need, but then again for the longest time our group had read the rules of rituals wrong and were under the impression that if someone was casting a ritual, if someone helped them it would cut the casting time in half. So I can't say we haven't played around with the rules of rituals, albeit unintentionally. Of course we don't play that way anymore once we realized our mistake, but yeah. Doubt it'll break the game or anything, since rituals are only as good as the situations that they can be used it. While a ritual may be awesome, if there's never really a chance to say use the ritual that lets you breathe underwater then it isn't that awesome no matter if you can cast it for free once or twice a day.