Frost Mage Paragon Path - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Frost Mage Paragon Path

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Scrow
Dec 11, 2010 2:39:41 I don't like any of the frost options for 4th edition, so here's my first attempt. I present the first part of my Frost Mage:

Paragon Path: Frost Mage
#2
pluisjen
Dec 11, 2010 3:53:12 I think that the Frozen condition is way too strong to be thrown around like that. It's essentially "stunned" because the only real option the monster has left is something like Total Defense, since it cannot move or attack anymore. And then you get an Encounter power that applies this to all creatures in a Close Blast 3 without an attack roll and Save Ends, plus you auto apply it to all adjacent creatures on an Action Point and you get a portable zone of Freezes Everything For The Entire Encounter at 20th level?

I doubt any monster in any encounter would be able to attack more then once with a Frost Mage on the field. I think that even if you'd change Frozen to Restrained it'd be total overkill... this PP is basically a requirement for every Swordmage out there and it would make them the perfect defender; it'd be simply impossible to get away from them or hurt anything.

If you want to keep it reasonable you'd probably have to change everything that now freezes to Immobilised until end of next turn or something; that would allow you to freeze everything without it being overkill.

As for the choice between channgeling and numbing; I think numbing would be better as it comes up more, and is easier to track. Also channeling under the current wording doesn't work, as you can't take Immediate actions during your own turn.
#3
Scrow
Dec 11, 2010 4:03:51
I think that the Frozen condition is way too strong to be thrown around like that. It's essentially "stunned" because the only real option the monster has left is something like Total Defense, since it cannot move or attack anymore. And then you get an Encounter power that applies this to all creatures in a Close Blast 3 without an attack roll and Save Ends, plus you auto apply it to all adjacent creatures on an Action Point and you get a portable zone of Freezes Everything For The Entire Encounter at 20th level?

The close blast 3 does have an attack roll... I don't know if you missed it. I edited the power, however, to last only a turn.

Auto-apply on an action point is also 1 turn (not save ends), and there are plenty of other classes that deal ongoing damage or something else on action point.

As for the level 20 power, it is level 20, and it's not freezes everything for the encounter. It freezes anything near you until they save. Once they save, they're immune to the aura for the rest of the encounter. So it freezes everything once. If it's still too good, I can take it down in power.

I doubt any monster in any encounter would be able to attack more then once with a Frost Mage on the field. I think that even if you'd change Frozen to Restrained it'd be total overkill... this PP is basically a requirement for every Swordmage out there and it would make them the perfect defender; it'd be simply impossible to get away from them or hurt anything.

I think you are exaggerating this a little... It's not as if there is a ton of powers in there with the freeze option. There is the power point ability, the encounter power, and the daily. I guess you can also count the ability that freezes if they fail two saves in a row. It's not like there is an at-will that freezes all adjacent. Ninja edit: I will probably be taking out the Channeling, so it doesn't apply. This means you have an encounter, a daily, and a power point freeze ability.

As for the choice between channeling and numbing; I think numbing would be better as it comes up more, and is easier to track. Also channeling under the current wording doesn't work, as you can't take Immediate actions during your own turn.

I like the numbing as well. Channeling could be reworded, of course, but I think the numbing is overall better, and not too redundant.
#4
pluisjen
Dec 11, 2010 4:38:14 I realised that Glacial Blast has an attack roll, but it freezes on a miss as well. Since the Freeze is far better then the damage, I just called it "without an attack roll" since the best part of the attack always goes off.

Anyway I still think "cannot attack" is much to powerful an ability.

When I look at this, I can picture exactly how a battle against the big boss would go..

Round 1: move up to the boss, use Glacial Blast (it cannot attack), use Arctic Focus
Round 2: Use an Action Point (it cannot attack, again)
Round 3: use Glacial Blast again (it still cannot attack)

Starting at level 12, at the cost of a Daily Utility and an Action Point, each bossfight you throw at them will start with the boss being unable to do anything for the first three round of combat; usually that's enough to at least Bloody it. And this does not need any attack rolls, leaves you with 2 freely usable other spells to add your own firepower, gives you two chances to deal some good damage with your Glacial Blast, and deals about 10 damage per turn automatically since you are adjacent to the enemy.
#5
Scrow
Dec 11, 2010 4:51:10
I realised that Glacial Blast has an attack roll, but it freezes on a miss as well. Since the Freeze is far better then the damage, I just called it "without an attack roll" since the best part of the attack always goes off.

Anyway I still think "cannot attack" is much to powerful an ability.

When I look at this, I can picture exactly how a battle against the big boss would go..

Round 1: move up to the boss, use Glacial Blast (it cannot attack), use Arctic Focus
Round 2: Use an Action Point (it cannot attack, again)
Round 3: use Glacial Blast again (it still cannot attack)

Starting at level 12, at the cost of a Daily Utility and an Action Point, each bossfight you throw at them will start with the boss being unable to do anything for the first three round of combat; usually that's enough to at least Bloody it. And this does not need any attack rolls, leaves you with 2 freely usable other spells to add your own firepower, gives you two chances to deal some good damage with your Glacial Blast, and deals about 10 damage per turn automatically since you are adjacent to the enemy.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

I really want the "can't attack" to stay if at all possible. I really wanted a hard-freeze. I made the following changes:

Glacial Blast no longer freezes. Now it's immobilize on a hit and half damage and slows on a miss. Would "Miss: Immobilize for a turn" be too good instead of half damage and slow? I wanted to have the power chill on hit or miss.
Arctic Focus no longer refreshes Glacial Blast, so you can't use it twice. Could this be reinstated with the removal of freeze, or would it still be too good?

So now you can freeze with an action point, a daily, or a critical. All other effects are changed to slow or immobilize.

EDIT: In case you didn't see the changes to the original post, I made some various changes. Changed Frozen Action to "you can spend an action point to..." instead of "when you spend an action point...", changed Numbing Frost to Fort instead of Reflex, and replaced Frozen with Stunned (since it's what I was going for anyway).

How does it look now?
#6
pluisjen
Dec 13, 2010 2:54:41 Most of it looks pretty fun now. Only thing I'm not sure about is a -5 penalty to saves against the crit-stun, that's really hefty (especially as a continuous penalty) on something that can trigger on up to 10% of your attacks.

Other then that, I think it's fine. It looks like a good way to give your character that "freezes you solid" vibe that you're going for.
#7
Scrow
Dec 14, 2010 0:05:54 Ok, I changed the penalty to a -2 instead. I think 2 is fair, since it only triggers on a critical, which should usually only occur 5% of the time.

I also modified Arctic Focus (now named Glacial Ward). I wanted an encounter armor power, so I changed it completely. It now sustains as a move action, slows you and forces you to only use cold powers, and only damages enemies. When you stop sustaining, it slows enemies for a turn.

A few other miscellaneous changes.

More feedback? How does it look now? Is Glacial Ward too good now?
#8
pluisjen
Dec 14, 2010 3:46:04 I think this is pretty good actually! Looks like an interesting paragon path. It seems most suitable for Defenders (swordmages, although I could see winterbased Wardens multiclassing to get in on it) with nice control options for Controllers as well.
#9
Scrow
Dec 15, 2010 3:03:55 I hadn't even considered defenders taking this path. How is it with defenders? Is any of it too good? I'm a little concerned about targeting fort with attacks... should I add a line about not working with weapon attacks?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Scrow Dec 11, 2010 2:39:41	I don't like any of the frost options for 4th edition, so here's my first attempt. I present the first part of my Frost Mage: Paragon Path: Frost Mage
#2 pluisjen Dec 11, 2010 3:53:12	I think that the Frozen condition is way too strong to be thrown around like that. It's essentially "stunned" because the only real option the monster has left is something like Total Defense, since it cannot move or attack anymore. And then you get an Encounter power that applies this to all creatures in a Close Blast 3 without an attack roll and Save Ends, plus you auto apply it to all adjacent creatures on an Action Point and you get a portable zone of Freezes Everything For The Entire Encounter at 20th level? I doubt any monster in any encounter would be able to attack more then once with a Frost Mage on the field. I think that even if you'd change Frozen to Restrained it'd be total overkill... this PP is basically a requirement for every Swordmage out there and it would make them the perfect defender; it'd be simply impossible to get away from them or hurt anything. If you want to keep it reasonable you'd probably have to change everything that now freezes to Immobilised until end of next turn or something; that would allow you to freeze everything without it being overkill. As for the choice between channgeling and numbing; I think numbing would be better as it comes up more, and is easier to track. Also channeling under the current wording doesn't work, as you can't take Immediate actions during your own turn.
#3 Scrow Dec 11, 2010 4:03:51	I think that the Frozen condition is way too strong to be thrown around like that. It's essentially "stunned" because the only real option the monster has left is something like Total Defense, since it cannot move or attack anymore. And then you get an Encounter power that applies this to all creatures in a Close Blast 3 without an attack roll and Save Ends, plus you auto apply it to all adjacent creatures on an Action Point and you get a portable zone of Freezes Everything For The Entire Encounter at 20th level? The close blast 3 does have an attack roll... I don't know if you missed it. I edited the power, however, to last only a turn. Auto-apply on an action point is also 1 turn (not save ends), and there are plenty of other classes that deal ongoing damage or something else on action point. As for the level 20 power, it is level 20, and it's not freezes everything for the encounter. It freezes anything near you until they save. Once they save, they're immune to the aura for the rest of the encounter. So it freezes everything once. If it's still too good, I can take it down in power. I doubt any monster in any encounter would be able to attack more then once with a Frost Mage on the field. I think that even if you'd change Frozen to Restrained it'd be total overkill... this PP is basically a requirement for every Swordmage out there and it would make them the perfect defender; it'd be simply impossible to get away from them or hurt anything. I think you are exaggerating this a little... It's not as if there is a ton of powers in there with the freeze option. There is the power point ability, the encounter power, and the daily. I guess you can also count the ability that freezes if they fail two saves in a row. It's not like there is an at-will that freezes all adjacent. Ninja edit: I will probably be taking out the Channeling, so it doesn't apply. This means you have an encounter, a daily, and a power point freeze ability. As for the choice between channeling and numbing; I think numbing would be better as it comes up more, and is easier to track. Also channeling under the current wording doesn't work, as you can't take Immediate actions during your own turn. I like the numbing as well. Channeling could be reworded, of course, but I think the numbing is overall better, and not too redundant.
#4 pluisjen Dec 11, 2010 4:38:14	I realised that Glacial Blast has an attack roll, but it freezes on a miss as well. Since the Freeze is far better then the damage, I just called it "without an attack roll" since the best part of the attack always goes off. Anyway I still think "cannot attack" is much to powerful an ability. When I look at this, I can picture exactly how a battle against the big boss would go.. Round 1: move up to the boss, use Glacial Blast (it cannot attack), use Arctic Focus Round 2: Use an Action Point (it cannot attack, again) Round 3: use Glacial Blast again (it still cannot attack) Starting at level 12, at the cost of a Daily Utility and an Action Point, each bossfight you throw at them will start with the boss being unable to do anything for the first three round of combat; usually that's enough to at least Bloody it. And this does not need any attack rolls, leaves you with 2 freely usable other spells to add your own firepower, gives you two chances to deal some good damage with your Glacial Blast, and deals about 10 damage per turn automatically since you are adjacent to the enemy.
#5 Scrow Dec 11, 2010 4:51:10	I realised that Glacial Blast has an attack roll, but it freezes on a miss as well. Since the Freeze is far better then the damage, I just called it "without an attack roll" since the best part of the attack always goes off. Anyway I still think "cannot attack" is much to powerful an ability. When I look at this, I can picture exactly how a battle against the big boss would go.. Round 1: move up to the boss, use Glacial Blast (it cannot attack), use Arctic Focus Round 2: Use an Action Point (it cannot attack, again) Round 3: use Glacial Blast again (it still cannot attack) Starting at level 12, at the cost of a Daily Utility and an Action Point, each bossfight you throw at them will start with the boss being unable to do anything for the first three round of combat; usually that's enough to at least Bloody it. And this does not need any attack rolls, leaves you with 2 freely usable other spells to add your own firepower, gives you two chances to deal some good damage with your Glacial Blast, and deals about 10 damage per turn automatically since you are adjacent to the enemy. My apologies, I misunderstood. I really want the "can't attack" to stay if at all possible. I really wanted a hard-freeze. I made the following changes: Glacial Blast no longer freezes. Now it's immobilize on a hit and half damage and slows on a miss. Would "Miss: Immobilize for a turn" be too good instead of half damage and slow? I wanted to have the power chill on hit or miss. Arctic Focus no longer refreshes Glacial Blast, so you can't use it twice. Could this be reinstated with the removal of freeze, or would it still be too good? So now you can freeze with an action point, a daily, or a critical. All other effects are changed to slow or immobilize. EDIT: In case you didn't see the changes to the original post, I made some various changes. Changed Frozen Action to "you can spend an action point to..." instead of "when you spend an action point...", changed Numbing Frost to Fort instead of Reflex, and replaced Frozen with Stunned (since it's what I was going for anyway). How does it look now?
#6 pluisjen Dec 13, 2010 2:54:41	Most of it looks pretty fun now. Only thing I'm not sure about is a -5 penalty to saves against the crit-stun, that's really hefty (especially as a continuous penalty) on something that can trigger on up to 10% of your attacks. Other then that, I think it's fine. It looks like a good way to give your character that "freezes you solid" vibe that you're going for.
#7 Scrow Dec 14, 2010 0:05:54	Ok, I changed the penalty to a -2 instead. I think 2 is fair, since it only triggers on a critical, which should usually only occur 5% of the time. I also modified Arctic Focus (now named Glacial Ward). I wanted an encounter armor power, so I changed it completely. It now sustains as a move action, slows you and forces you to only use cold powers, and only damages enemies. When you stop sustaining, it slows enemies for a turn. A few other miscellaneous changes. More feedback? How does it look now? Is Glacial Ward too good now?
#8 pluisjen Dec 14, 2010 3:46:04	I think this is pretty good actually! Looks like an interesting paragon path. It seems most suitable for Defenders (swordmages, although I could see winterbased Wardens multiclassing to get in on it) with nice control options for Controllers as well.
#9 Scrow Dec 15, 2010 3:03:55	I hadn't even considered defenders taking this path. How is it with defenders? Is any of it too good? I'm a little concerned about targeting fort with attacks... should I add a line about not working with weapon attacks?