Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lord_welkerfan Nov 21, 2008 10:21:24	I've become very fond of the 4e combat system. One of the few very frustrating parts of the system, however, is the loss of Encounter and Daily powers due to a poor dice roll. This is part of the system, I know, but I have several players who, in over ten sessions, have never hit with a daily power and have seldom hit with an Encounter power due to horrible dice luck. I tried to alleviate this problem by allowing players to spend action points (which, due to the irregular nature of encounters in the game, I give out one per session with additional ones coming for "awesome" improvisation and creativity) to reroll their attack rolls, but, they still missed on the reroll. I think I want to implement this solution: Frustration Points When you miss an attack roll or fail a skill check during a combat encounter, you earn a frustration point. You accumulate frustration points up to a maximum of 10+half your level. You may keep your frustration points between encounters and even over the course of several days. When you miss an attack roll, you may spend frustration points to improve your attack roll to allow you to hit. Each frustration point you spend increases your attack roll by +2. There is no limit to how many frustration points you may spend of a single attack, other than the number of frustration points you currently possess. If your modified attack roll is high enough to hit the target, you hit as normal. The DM should tell you how many frustration points you need to spend before you spend the points.
#2 fragsie Nov 21, 2008 16:10:46	I like your idea, but i think a +2 to attack rolls is pretty powerful, especially for lower levels, perhaps if one frustration point (or token?) was worth a +2 on a skill check, but a +1 on an attack roll would be more balanced. But you would still have the potential for a level one character to give himself a +11 to a single attack roll, which is quite a scary thought. Maybe if you limit the amount of points that can be spent in one turn (i was thinking equal to character level)?
#3 Webster Nov 21, 2008 16:36:11	Or even limit on what tier you're on. Heroic- 3 Paragon- 2 Epic- 1 (I reversed the numbers because it's easier to be frustrated at lower levels...)
#4 lord_welkerfan Nov 22, 2008 16:33:15	I like the suggestion for +2 to skill checks or +1 to attack rolls. The point of the matter is so that a character could ensure that the one daily he's been waiting for 2 sessions to use actually hits the BBEG--a roll of 2 might need a +11 to hit, and that's okay, since he just spent all of his tokens to get it.
#5 dalzig Nov 22, 2008 19:57:33	You'd want to clarify how it works with attacks with multiple targets. If a Wizard uses Scorching Burst, can s/he get 9 frustration points from the one attack? I like the basic idea behind this, but it seems like it would overpower PCs like crazy.
#6 demiteddybear Nov 23, 2008 7:35:06	How about this, frustration tokens can only be spent when you have 3 and you spend all 3; with the +2 still attached. This way the maximum you can attach to any attack roll is +6 not too incredibly high but after 3 missed attacks like this you deserve something that stands a higher chance of hitting; but it also means that since you can have a maximum of 25 you also have a chance to up your attack roll on 8 different attacks.
#7 doomsought Nov 23, 2008 18:18:38	Seems do able, but frustration points spent only work for one target.
#8 yt3800 Nov 25, 2008 7:10:25	How about this? You can only have up to ten Frustration points which you can spend against one target in order to improve your roll. You get a +2 to skill checks for every frustration point you use, and you get a +1 to attack rolls for every frustration point you use. From 1st to 10th level you can use all your frustration points on a foe (cause lets face it, heroic characters miss a lot and letting them get in with one attack would be a great blessing for them), from 11th to 20th you can only use five at a time, and at epic your limited to three. You activate a frustration point only after you miss on a attack or skill check. That's about what you've come up with right? Just trying to keep everything ordered.
#9 lord_welkerfan Nov 25, 2008 9:07:14	For effects that attack multiple targets, I'd say that you only generate 1 frustration point if you miss more than half of the targets.
#10 harmesis Nov 25, 2008 22:44:20	What if you just implement something like Force points from Star Wars: Saga Edition. You get one luck point when you get an action point and you can spend a luck point for a +d6 bonus to a d20 roll. When you have an extended rest you lose all luck points but you get 1 back when you get your new action point at the end of the rest. 1-10 = +1d6 11-20 = +2d6 21-30 = +3d6 Also by tying it to Action points, they can pick up another one when they get a milestone.
#11 lord_welkerfan Nov 25, 2008 23:44:40	What if you just implement something like Force points from Star Wars: Saga Edition. You get one luck point when you get an action point and you can spend a luck point for a +d6 bonus to a d20 roll. When you have an extended rest you lose all luck points but you get 1 back when you get your new action point at the end of the rest. 1-10 = +1d6 11-20 = +2d6 21-30 = +3d6 Also by tying it to Action points, they can pick up another one when they get a milestone. I don't want a random number. I want this to be a reliable method to ensure you contribute--nothing would be more frustrating than to miss, spend a point, and still miss because you roll a one. In order for this to achieve its goal as a method to eliminate the frustration of missing over and over, it must not have an element of chance. Also, the accumulation of points should be based on missed attacks. I don't want the player that always rolls well to earn points; I want the player across the table whose sheer dumb bad luck means he never really contributes to earn them. Lastly, I really hate the milestone concept. I play in an urban game where we seldom have more than one or two encounters in a day, so I don't play with milestones. The players get one action point per encounter, period. The milestone measuring tool doesn't work for my game, and I bet it doesn't work with others' (its the only part of the system left that relies on there being a certain number of encounters in the day), so I won't design a system to work with it.
#12 voska66 Nov 27, 2008 14:51:29	Interesting idea. I'd add a few things though. 1) Monsters get the same ability and can start with frustration points if the DM choose to in the encounter 2) Stretches of good luck should negate frustration points. So say you had string of bad luck and gained 3 frustration points I'd say 3 successful rolls causes you to lose a frustration point. 3) I wouldn't give frustration points out for a single missed roll but three missed rolls in a row I'd allow you to gain one. 4) Frustration points can only be gained on rolls where you have 50% or around there odds of hitting. There is no frustration point gained by attacking something you can't hit for example. I mean it's just silly gaining frustration points trying to hit something you need a 20 to hit. 5) I might also allow frustration point to only be spent once per encounter as well. I think these restriction would keep the balance in place. Otherwise you'd see a things get out of hand really quick I think.
#13 shinikama Nov 27, 2008 15:24:29	As an add-on to the "3 rolls negates a frustration point: idea: a critical hit removes all points from you. Just my
#14 febo Nov 27, 2008 18:54:13	How about removing the extra "point" system altogether, and just say: If you miss three attacks in row (missing half the targets of a multi-target attack counting as a single miss), you may make a "Frustration Attack" the following round: use any available attack power, roll an extra d6 along with the 20, and add them together for you attack roll. I "6" on the d6 also counts as a critical hit. This provides a very cool attack to relieve the suckiness of missing a lot, but does not introduce more "points" to keep track of.